74 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

It's funny that you try to force evidence to come to play when that's impossible to do for a player.

You're the one making the claim. It's not my fault you've based your claims of feelings instead of cold, hard facts.

Quote

The only way you can possibly know that I'm telling the truth is if you play the game, which most here don't.

Can you prove that claim_
You're going to have to, if you're going to use that claim to invalidate other's opinions.

[dontmindme]

...

With what... a max of 6 people per side with an epic grand total of 12 people in a server at a time, I can see where parties of even 3 people can throw things out of whack.  Honestly, I like an idea posted a while back; have MM pair parties of players against other parties of players.  That, or at least have it attempt to do so before dumping people that are in a parties against a team of PUG randoms.

The best of the best players in Hawken though jumping onto servers with beginners to good players is probably the bigger problem in Hawken right now... but Hawken's small player base... what do you do_

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

Can you back up your claim though_ Evidence, otherwise your point is a moot point.

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Prove conclusively what you are suggesting is a good decision.
You can make assertions all you want, but you aren't proving anything to back up what you say.

You've made the vague claim that removing parties will reduce the frequency of stomps, but you are so far unable to provide any actual evidence that would back up that claim, and prove that the reduction in frequency would justify pissing off and losing a large portion of the playerbase.

It's funny that you try to force evidence to come to play when that's impossible to do for a player. The only way you can possibly know that I'm telling the truth is if you play the game, which most here don't.

Um, excuse me_ I play the game. As a matter of fact, I last played the game 2 days ago.  If you want, go on and check my Steam profile.
http://steamcommunit...61198125439172/

I plan on playing later today as well.  Point invalidated.

And your truth is only your opinion, which isn't truth at all.  You can't even back up your own opinion with evidence, how am I supposed to buy into your idea_ I can't.

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

Don't move the goalposts.
You claimed he didn't play, he proved he did.

You are wrong.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

I'm sorry I have a life and can't satisfy your playing requirements. I apologize for placing my education ahead of a game. But wait, I still played the game! Proved your point wrong.

Bottom line though, if you can't prove any of your claims, you're dead in the water.

Edited by Silverfire, March 25 2014 - 03:00 PM.

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

I'm sorry I have a life and can't satisfy your playing requirements. I apologize for placing my education ahead of a game. But wait, I still played the game! Proved your point wrong.

Bottom line though, if you can't prove any of your claims, you're dead in the water.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. All you have proven is that you're just a filthy casual.

[nokari]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

Can you back up your claim though_ Evidence, otherwise your point is a moot point.

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Prove conclusively what you are suggesting is a good decision.
You can make assertions all you want, but you aren't proving anything to back up what you say.

You've made the vague claim that removing parties will reduce the frequency of stomps, but you are so far unable to provide any actual evidence that would back up that claim, and prove that the reduction in frequency would justify pissing off and losing a large portion of the playerbase.

It's funny that you try to force evidence to come to play when that's impossible to do for a player. The only way you can possibly know that I'm telling the truth is if you play the game, which most here don't.

Um, excuse me_ I play the game. As a matter of fact, I last played the game 2 days ago.  If you want, go on and check my Steam profile.
http://steamcommunit...61198125439172/

I plan on playing later today as well.  Point invalidated.

And your truth is only your opinion, which isn't truth at all.  You can't even back up your own opinion with evidence, how am I supposed to buy into your idea_ I can't.

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

Oh, so you think time on Steam in only the past 2 weeks is the only record of how much time anyone has played_ Seriously_ Not the smartest...

I have 18.6 hours in the past 2 weeks, including playing about an hour last night, 75 hours since the Steam conversion, and at least 130 hours since Open Beta started. In reality I've been playing actively every phase since Alpha 2.

So maybe you don't really know squat about what you're saying.

[RazorDawg]

The fact that I'm arguing with players that don't spend a lot of time playing this game just means that I'm right on all points and that parties should be removed from the pub games.

Edited by RazorDawg, March 25 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Just as side note:

If you guys are pubstomping someone in a match then don't say "poor (nickname here)!". Instead, you should say "brave (nickname here)!".

That was my own case a couple of days ago in a match (yes I was the victim most of the times fighting against 4 or 5 opponents each time..) These things happen.. so what_

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

I'm sorry I have a life and can't satisfy your playing requirements. I apologize for placing my education ahead of a game. But wait, I still played the game! Proved your point wrong.

Bottom line though, if you can't prove any of your claims, you're dead in the water.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. All you have proven is that you're just a filthy casual.

Quit the insults.  

You claimed that I didn't play.  I proved, with evidence (per my Steam profile) that I do play, and I played recently.  And apparently a couple busy weeks of school translates to "filthy casual" these days.

I've been playing ever since the start of Open Beta and have logged at least 200 hours in-game (my in game profile won't say that due to the stats wipe some time ago).

Edited by Silverfire, March 25 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Skrill]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Removing partying from a multiplayer game is tantamount to suicide. It's a fantastic way to kill a game these days.
Being able to party up with friends is one of the single most important features in modern multiplayer games. It's simply not an option to get rid of it, not in today's gaming culture. Maybe you could have gotten away with it a decade ago or so, but not these days.

All you have to do is look at how many people are upset you can't have a full party, and how many people push for a MM system where parties can be larger to see how many people love the idea of partying.

You can assert that your opinion is correct, but it runs counter to the facts, and as such it is not logically correct.

Furthermore, until you can prove that parties are what's causing all your pubstomp problems, you really don't have a case.
If you look at what's been going on (ie: the data), most of the pubstomps you experience are likely not due to parties, but just higher tier players getting mixed in with noobs, problems with ragequitters imbalancing matches and an overall problematic matchmaker balancing system.

I'm not going to say parties vs. pubs don't cause problems, because that certainly isn't true, but it does not make up for the majority of match balance problems. And like I said before, you simply can't remove the option to party in a multiplayer game without ticking off a significant portion of the playerbase and doing irreparable damage to the games population.

You may be pissed off and not like it, but you're going to have to deal with parties being in existence.
Just be glad they capped the size of parties. It used to be you could have full parties vs pubs, and that was terrible.

Not to mention that team play is essential to winning in most of Hawkens game modes. I never play in parties and yet still have quite a few stomps in my favor because I use my mic. Teams are not the problem. Playing without communicating is a HUGE disadvantage in this game. Also, most people spend little to no time thinking about their team comp. if you have a whole team of A-class mechs you will not have a good time. A variety of mechs is required to create a well rounded team that compliment your teams strengths and weaknesses.

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

5 hours for the past 2 weeks.

WOW you sure showed me.

I'm sorry I have a life and can't satisfy your playing requirements. I apologize for placing my education ahead of a game. But wait, I still played the game! Proved your point wrong.

Bottom line though, if you can't prove any of your claims, you're dead in the water.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. All you have proven is that you're just a filthy casual.

Quit the insults.  

You claimed that I didn't play.  I proved, with evidence (per my Steam profile) that I do play, and I played recently.  And apparently a couple busy weeks of school translates to "filthy casual" these days.

I've been playing ever since the start of Open Beta and have logged at least 200 hours in-game (my in game profile won't say that due to the stats wipe some time ago).

You really should just stop posting. You're obviously a party man that only plays with friends and fully support pub stomping. The fact that you also don't play the game much means that you don't know what really happens in this game at a daily basis.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The fact that I'm arguing with players that don't spend a lot of time playing this game just means that I'm right on all points and that parties should be removed from the pub games.

No. All it means is that you've commited the fallacy of moving the goalposts in an attempt to distract from the fact that were proven wrong.
Also, the idea that if your opponent isn't right, then you must be right, is also fallacious. A false dichotomy.

Let's face it, what's happened here is that you raged about it on the forum and hoped people would agree with you.
But we didn't, and started picking your poorly formed argument apart, and now you're getting pissed about that too, so you are lashing out and making yourself look silly.

And you keep digging the hole deeper for yourself with every insult, fallacy and ridiculous claim, and we're just having grand time watching you foam at the mouth.

[RazorDawg]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The fact that I'm arguing with players that don't spend a lot of time playing this game just means that I'm right on all points and that parties should be removed from the pub games.

No. All it means is that you've commited the fallacy of moving the goalposts in an attempt to distract from the fact that were proven wrong.
Also, the idea that if your opponent isn't right, then you must be right, is also fallacious. A false dichotomy.

Let's face it, what's happened here is that you raged about it on the forum and hoped people would agree with you.
But we didn't, and started picking your poorly formed argument apart, and now you're getting pissed about that too, so you are lashing out and making yourself look silly.

And you keep digging the hole deeper for yourself with every insult, fallacy and ridiculous claim, and we're just having grand time watching you foam at the mouth.

How was I proven wrong_ The fact that someone plays a few hours a month when I told him he didn't play_ So what_ Casual gamers have no business in discussing game balances.

Edited by RazorDawg, March 25 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Niceguydan8]

PhasmaFelis, on March 25 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Team Fortress 2. Never had parties, still huge.

Team Fortress 2 has a party mode. It was added well after launch but it does have one.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The fact that I'm arguing with players that don't spend a lot of time playing this game just means that I'm right on all points and that parties should be removed from the pub games.

No. All it means is that you've commited the fallacy of moving the goalposts in an attempt to distract from the fact that were proven wrong.
Also, the idea that if your opponent isn't right, then you must be right, is also fallacious. A false dichotomy.

Let's face it, what's happened here is that you raged about it on the forum and hoped people would agree with you.
But we didn't, and started picking your poorly formed argument apart, and now you're getting pissed about that too, so you are lashing out and making yourself look silly.

And you keep digging the hole deeper for yourself with every insult, fallacy and ridiculous claim, and we're just having grand time watching you foam at the mouth.

How was I proven wrong_ The fact that someone plays a few hours a month when I told him he didn't play_ So what_ Casual gamers have no business in discussing game balances.

The statement "you don't play" is absolute.
The logic is binary. Either he does play and you're wrong, or he doesn't and you're right.

He does play, thus you are wrong.

But let's play the game your way.
How many hours have you played total of open beta_
How many hours of closed beta have you played_
How many hours of alpha have you played_

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 25 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[BoompigXD]

Wow, this thread is still going_ I thought everyone would have caught on by now that this guy is a troll who ignores all legitimate evidence put in front of him just so he attack people and shove his opinions down everyone's throat. Trust me, I have experience with these types on the Warframe Forums (Don't go there, that place is a cesspit)

Edited by BoompigXD, March 25 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[RazorDawg]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

The fact that I'm arguing with players that don't spend a lot of time playing this game just means that I'm right on all points and that parties should be removed from the pub games.

No. All it means is that you've commited the fallacy of moving the goalposts in an attempt to distract from the fact that were proven wrong.
Also, the idea that if your opponent isn't right, then you must be right, is also fallacious. A false dichotomy.

Let's face it, what's happened here is that you raged about it on the forum and hoped people would agree with you.
But we didn't, and started picking your poorly formed argument apart, and now you're getting pissed about that too, so you are lashing out and making yourself look silly.

And you keep digging the hole deeper for yourself with every insult, fallacy and ridiculous claim, and we're just having grand time watching you foam at the mouth.

How was I proven wrong_ The fact that someone plays a few hours a month when I told him he didn't play_ So what_ Casual gamers have no business in discussing game balances.

The statement "you don't play" is absolute.
The logic is binary. Either he does play and you're wrong, or he doesn't and you're right.

He does play, thus you are wrong.

But let's play the game your way.
How many hours have you played total of open beta_
How many hours of closed beta have you played_
How many hours of alpha have you played_

over a thousand for 1st question
only a few months for at least 400 hours
never played alpha

[Niceguydan8]

There IS a decent way to see how stomps occur.

Does one dude literally carry the whole team_ This is the most frequent for me. Either one dude on my team or the other team is a god, and it's usually not me (lol). Does that indicate the person is in a party or just really good at the game_

How often are 2 or 3 players significantly above their teammates while being on the same team multiple games_ This would possibly indicate they are in a party and that their influence is consistently better than everyone else's.

It's really not impossible to find out, it just would take some actual research rather than posting superfluously on a forum.

So you can sample that repeatedly until you come up with some data trends, and then see what you come up with.

Edited by Niceguydan8, March 25 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[RazorDawg]

BoompigXD, on March 25 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Wow, this thread is still going_ I thought everyone would have caught on by now that this guy is a troll who ignores all legitimate evidence put in front of him just so he attack people and shove his opinions down everyone's throat. Trust me, I have experience with these types on the Warframe Forums (Don't go there, that place is a cesspit)

There is no legitimcy from casual players.