How We Deal With Hackers
#21
Posted May 19 2014 - 06:32 AM
Hackers vs. developers has been a mainstay since the early days of computers - and has been an issue in video games since the first arcade machines (Hell, as a kid, I used to trick Sinistar into giving me infinite lives all the time). And it's an endless cycle, hackers find an exploit, developers patch it, hackers find another way around that patch, so developers patch that too... on and on and on. At a certain point, it becomes economically unreasonable for developers to even bother trying.
There's also the impact all the efforts to prevent hacking/cheating have on the legitimate gamers. How much red tape do people really want to go through to just play_ How much security slowing down the network connection to the game (creating more lag) are we really willing to put up with_ The sad part is that games have come to mean so much in certain peoples lives that they even feel inclined to cheat. To what end does it even matter how well you do at an online game_ How is a players amazing KDR positively contributing, in any way, to their future or any other aspect of their life_
#22
Posted May 20 2014 - 01:41 PM
That being said, we as the community of a F2P game ought to take some responsibility by following the reporting guidelines that the developers have put in place. While playing with a cheater can be incredibly frustrating, I imagine it is even more frustrating being a developer, sifting through report after report of "cheating" with only the occasional corroborated incident actually reported. Combine that with the number of players who look at anyone with a "good match" as a hacker/cheater... the heap that the Hawken developers have to deal with only grows larger. Frankly I'm tired of playing a round or two and having other players accuse me of being a cheater simply because I had a half-decent round.
All that aside, I have to say I love the community that Hawken has cultivated and all I can really say is props to the developers for putting up with some of us crazies.
#23
Posted May 20 2014 - 11:01 PM
Everything of what h0B0 said, plus:
When it comes to security on the Internet, it is a fabrication that anything can potentially be, or is, 100% 'secure'. Even the great Google was affected by a zero-day vulnerability that caused one to hijack a user's account without a password, and even bypassing the two-step authentication process altogether. Yes, Google, which controls nearly 50 percent of the Internet, was not secure—granted these type of vulnerabilities are quite rare though.
With that being said, the best way to protect something, is to prevent it from happening in the first place. Game developers use numerous 'tricks' and passive anti-cheat systems in place to do this. More specifically, implementing anti-spam in chat, server sided (controlled by the server) movement, chatting, aiming—pretty much anything that could possibly give a player an unfair advantage over others.
Most importantly though, whatever system you have in place, it must take into account the possibility of a false-positive, and only aid in that it provides reliable evidence. In other words, not too harsh (automatic VAC ban hammer), but not too soft either (no system in place at all).
Also, I will highlight the largest flaw in the current system in place:
[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on May 14 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:
When we receive a report, we use the evidence provided by the community and our cheat detection algorithm to determine the veracity of the claim. Every case is different and many times the solution is not black and white.
If our cheat detection algorithm is lacking data, we will usually turn to the community and use reports from all of you to determine our next course of action. As long as we have enough trustworthy data, a permanent ban is usually the result.
[...]
While I know that there is a greater chance that players are trustworthy when it comes to this, relying on a form of selective bias for providing evidence is not a good thing for solving the hacker problem, especially if (not implying) the system can be bypassed.
Edited by Draigun, May 20 2014 - 11:10 PM.
"The flesh is dying, and we're the next big thing.
The world we know is every bit of real — and a hell of a lot more pure — than this decaying mudball you're trying to save.
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#24
Posted May 21 2014 - 04:31 PM
[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on May 14 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:
This post is intended to lay out our policy regarding hackers and how we deal with them. We want our community to be clear on our stance and our process when a potential hacker is reported.
First, it's important to note that if you want to report someone who is suspected of hacking, video evidence will most likely be requested. Keep this in mind if you're looking for hackers and always be prepared to capture video.
When we receive a report, we use the evidence provided by the community and our cheat detection algorithm to determine the veracity of the claim. Every case is different and many times the solution is not black and white.
If enough data is provided by our cheat detection algorithm and the same player has been reported multiple times, we will usually implement a permanent ban on that player's account. If our cheat detection algorithm is lacking data, we will usually turn to the community and use reports from all of you to determine our next course of action. As long as we have enough trustworthy data, a permanent ban is usually the result.
Occasionally, we will implement suspensions instead of permanent bans. This is usually done when the possibility of false positives or the lack of evidence creates "reasonable doubt" and prevents us from permanently banning the player. However, if the player in question appears on our radar again and the evidence is solid, the player is permanently banned.
We hope this information helps our players understand how we approach the process of determining the measure of punishment for suspected hackers. There is zero tolerance for hacking in HAWKEN, and players who are proven to be using these hacks will be permanently banned from the game.
Thanks for all of your help so far in reporting suspected hackers and providing us with the necessary evidence for us to take action. We're constantly working to perfect the process and make HAWKEN a fun, hacker free experience for everyone.
(Call out threads are not appreciated since those are not used by our anti-cheat system and violate our forum rules. Players that violate these rules will have to face consequences. --[HWK]Defter)
#25
Posted May 22 2014 - 06:22 AM
Saturnine, on May 15 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:
RunaPanda, on May 15 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on May 14 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:
Tell me something once and don't act on it...and don't expect me to forget it. Things like this have a tendency to follow and damage a games reputation.
Edit:spelling/grammar
There needs to be some kind of actual detection method in the game itself, be it VAC, punkbuster, etc. The ban hammer should come down on them when their in the act of hacking, not whenever afterwards if they're even reported at all. There are far to few who are actually able to record video while playing, let alone in good enough quality to be presentable as evidence. Something needs to be done on a proactive basis.
The problem with taking action against a hacker while they're still in game, is that that anti-cheat would be useless. It would work the first day or two, where it catches current hacks, but banning a player as they are playing makes it extremely easy for the people making the hacks to figure out how the hacks are being detected. When they know how they are being detected, it's trivial to rework the hack so it gets around the anti-cheat. The examples of anti-cheat systems that you gave don't ban immediately ever. If they do, they are completely worthless as anti-cheat solutions.
Yeap I've seen it many years in many games the endless cycle of updating hacks/sell em to public/update antihack it just keeps money coming in to the hack author AND the game company
#26
Posted May 22 2014 - 06:28 AM
MAD_EvolutioN_WMD, on May 21 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:
[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on May 14 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:
This post is intended to lay out our policy regarding hackers and how we deal with them. We want our community to be clear on our stance and our process when a potential hacker is reported.
First, it's important to note that if you want to report someone who is suspected of hacking, video evidence will most likely be requested. Keep this in mind if you're looking for hackers and always be prepared to capture video.
When we receive a report, we use the evidence provided by the community and our cheat detection algorithm to determine the veracity of the claim. Every case is different and many times the solution is not black and white.
If enough data is provided by our cheat detection algorithm and the same player has been reported multiple times, we will usually implement a permanent ban on that player's account. If our cheat detection algorithm is lacking data, we will usually turn to the community and use reports from all of you to determine our next course of action. As long as we have enough trustworthy data, a permanent ban is usually the result.
Occasionally, we will implement suspensions instead of permanent bans. This is usually done when the possibility of false positives or the lack of evidence creates "reasonable doubt" and prevents us from permanently banning the player. However, if the player in question appears on our radar again and the evidence is solid, the player is permanently banned.
We hope this information helps our players understand how we approach the process of determining the measure of punishment for suspected hackers. There is zero tolerance for hacking in HAWKEN, and players who are proven to be using these hacks will be permanently banned from the game.
Thanks for all of your help so far in reporting suspected hackers and providing us with the necessary evidence for us to take action. We're constantly working to perfect the process and make HAWKEN a fun, hacker free experience for everyone.
(Call out threads are not appreciated since those are not used by our anti-cheat system and violate our forum rules. Players that violate these rules will have to face consequences. --[HWK]Defter)
IP bans have a tendancy to be totaly useless against hackers because everyone can change their ip (even you ones who think your cable ip is stuck static) and on the side they end up banning legit players so it isnt a good idea unless the hacking is insanely out of hand like in DayZ where i added 20 new IP's a day the first week i activated my server (had to constantly work hard at renewing many of their bans when the ip changes)
#27
Posted May 22 2014 - 06:58 AM
After all, these hackers caused the unfairness, the player will leave, and spread a bad reputation, while newcomers does not want to join the game.
Therefore, hackers like locusts, it will devour this game, the normal players do not want to see this situation, I believe that dev team are more reluctant.
#28
Posted May 22 2014 - 11:26 AM
Every f2p have the same Problem. The accounts are worth fuzzy bunny.Every Noob can evolve thousand of John Doe Accounts.
Solution !!
Make the Account precious. Hawken and Steam Login should be one. This is what xbox life doing very well. Cheat and harass and your Account is fuzzy bunny and you money is gone.
All Game platforms like steam Uplay origin xbox live, psn should have a teamwork on this. One account. and when you fuzzy bunny up youre gone. No one would risk his precious account only to fool around with cheats.
This is the only way .. the money speaks like always.
#29
Posted May 22 2014 - 04:40 PM
h0B0, on May 14 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:
Are there any plans from the dev team to improve the current methods by which hackers are detected and dealt with_
The community be damned.
Can't catch a hack, especially a good one. They'll just keep trying, so just go along and deal with the asses the old way: sign out. They can't be that prevalent, can they_
palad1ne, on May 22 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:
Every f2p have the same Problem. The accounts are worth fuzzy bunny.Every Noob can evolve thousand of John Doe Accounts.
Solution !!
Make the Account precious. Hawken and Steam Login should be one. This is what xbox life doing very well. Cheat and harass and your Account is fuzzy bunny and you money is gone.
All Game platforms like steam Uplay origin xbox live, psn should have a teamwork on this. One account. and when you fuzzy bunny up youre gone. No one would risk his precious account only to fool around with cheats.
This is the only way .. the money speaks like always.
Are you NUTS_ Do you know how capitalism works (it makes me sick thinking about it)_ There's a pretty good chance that there will never be a omni-account, ever. And you do realize that people can make their own accounts as many times as they like, without being blocked because of their name, age, or IP_
And money doesn't talk, it just silently throttles your mind.
And one more thing: All you who complain, hope, or whatever, for a more efficient way to catch hackers, read up on the efficiency of a heat engine, will you_ You can only get so much out of a system before its a good as it can get, and besides, the devs aren't gonna pamper you all, their short on money and can't waste time on fixing a minor filter when the whole game isn't even finished yet.
My suggestion: Do what Titanfall did, make hackers play with other hackers. And that won't even catch the damn buggers (or some of them).
Edited by IronClamp, May 22 2014 - 04:54 PM.
"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"
#30
Posted May 23 2014 - 08:27 AM
palad1ne, on May 22 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:
Every f2p have the same Problem. The accounts are worth fuzzy bunny.Every Noob can evolve thousand of John Doe Accounts.
Solution !!
Make the Account precious. Hawken and Steam Login should be one. This is what xbox life doing very well. Cheat and harass and your Account is fuzzy bunny and you money is gone.
All Game platforms like steam Uplay origin xbox live, psn should have a teamwork on this. One account. and when you fuzzy bunny up youre gone. No one would risk his precious account only to fool around with cheats.
This is the only way .. the money speaks like always.
#31
Posted May 24 2014 - 06:32 AM
Edited by EM1O, May 24 2014 - 06:47 AM.
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#32
Posted May 24 2014 - 11:46 AM
The gist of the article was that "rage cheater" are so obvious they are easily caught in games with multi-phronged defense.
They are not currently in Hawken. Certain People are ruining around with completely obvious and ridiculous damage hacks, despite having been reported multiple times.
Basically, compared to other games nothing is being done right now.
If it was, Hawken would actually be blesses in a way because the less obvious "closet cheaters" are less of a problem compared to other games due to game design: A wallhack is not nearly as usefull as in the CS:GO example because there's already a radar and, more importantly, there is nothing comparable to insta-death headshots.
#33
Posted May 24 2014 - 02:42 PM
IronClamp, on May 22 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:
h0B0, on May 14 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:
Are there any plans from the dev team to improve the current methods by which hackers are detected and dealt with_
The community be damned.
Can't catch a hack, especially a good one. They'll just keep trying, so just go along and deal with the asses the old way: sign out. They can't be that prevalent, can they_
palad1ne, on May 22 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:
Every f2p have the same Problem. The accounts are worth fuzzy bunny.Every Noob can evolve thousand of John Doe Accounts.
Solution !!
Make the Account precious. Hawken and Steam Login should be one. This is what xbox life doing very well. Cheat and harass and your Account is fuzzy bunny and you money is gone.
All Game platforms like steam Uplay origin xbox live, psn should have a teamwork on this. One account. and when you fuzzy bunny up youre gone. No one would risk his precious account only to fool around with cheats.
This is the only way .. the money speaks like always.
Are you NUTS_ Do you know how capitalism works (it makes me sick thinking about it)_ There's a pretty good chance that there will never be a omni-account, ever.
It will come, and we can have a bet on it if you want. In 3 years this is reality. If not, you meet me here and pay some beer, hoockerz and tacos.
Listen kid. Since the f2p games comes up, the companies running a fine strategy. How to earn more money then before. The f2p Model is the future. There is only one black spot on this. The Cheaters.
Technically, in old days the Game Devs running a race with the cheat Devs. Now the Game Devs have only one weapon. The Account.
And they will make the Account precious. In a couple of years, you will have one account for all. Like google. I dont care because i dont cheat even i could easy as an old unreal administrator.
good day
Edited by palad1ne, May 24 2014 - 02:45 PM.
#34
Posted May 25 2014 - 02:43 AM
#35
Posted May 25 2014 - 03:24 PM
RunaPanda, on May 23 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:
These people buy hacks_
WTF!_ And $10~$30!_ It's flipping information, people! Not solid gold, just an ass ton of 1's and 0's! It's flipping NOTHING! THIN AIR! THIS IS fuzzy bunny, ALL OF THIS IS -
It's better I stop there...
And Paladine: bite me.
Can we also define "hacker", seeing as I think of some code head modifying his game for laughs, and you all think of skill less bum ("cheater").
Edited by IronClamp, May 25 2014 - 03:38 PM.
"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"
#36
Posted June 03 2014 - 05:11 PM
#37
Posted June 03 2014 - 09:05 PM
Edited by Silverfire, June 03 2014 - 09:05 PM.
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#38
Posted June 03 2014 - 09:30 PM
#39
Posted June 04 2014 - 03:09 AM
Check out my new short film Prebirth: The Eternal War! Check out my e-peen!
Need to find a mech guide_ Well, look here!
Intel Core i3 2120 @ 3.30 GHz | Corsair XMS3 8GB RAM | eVGA GTX 550Ti 1GB OC | Corsair CX600 PSU
#40
Posted June 05 2014 - 07:33 AM
MushyMoosh, on June 03 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:
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