65 replies to this topic

[GenAce]

nokari, on June 11 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

GenAce, on June 11 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Wow Ker4u you obviously don't read at all.

Quote

The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.

The daily win bonuse needs TO GO all together. TO GO means to leave.. to not be around.

And cheaters are going to cheat anyway.. regardless if they do or don't get bonuses.

You realize what you said is in agreement to what I said, right_ I suggested the win bonus needs to go and that players should get increasing bonuses for playing consecutive matches (with a limit).

Wrong - What I realized and what you missed was this:

Quote

The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.

- The ENTIRE system needs to go NO WIN BONUSE - NO CONSECUTIVE stay bonuse. My words were again - because you have such a hard time understanding a persons meaning "And INSTEAD (to replace something) they need to adjust the credits so each match you EARN more."

You earn credits by completing objectives and by killing the opposing team.

[EM1O]

my tuppence:
i have "issues", so my MMR likely will never rise above 1500. this now makes KDR, MMR, EIEIO, irrelevant. you now have no stick with which to beat me. if 90% of new players don't even know about MMR, etc (i only found out about it by word-of-mouth, after being in Hawken for over a year), why bother with "punishments"_
if i join a game, i generally finish it, unless it is less than 5 mins or 500/3000, a complete losing trash-stomp, and it appears most of the rest of the team is evacuating. it's stupid trying to be stalwart about it, and seeing pilots pop in, then bail out immediately. i'm not a self-immolator. the majority of players now seem to either not know about any desertion penalty, or care, as well. i don't.
once i have my bonus, no reason to stay around, unless the team is at least so-so and one of my favorite maps pops up.
and primarily: it's my time, my equipment, and if i choose not to play a game that i find lacking in enjoyment, i'll look elsewhere. it's time to outrank Goat Simulator, folks.
quit focusing on/attempting to punish the players.
give back fat armor, speed, horror-level weapon strength, and ability, armor, & function adjustment (aka the "30"). make it fun to run around and splatter a lot, instead of confining mechs to such restrictive movement and play.
i doubt i'm alone in my opinions, here, and if the above enrages you, upsets you, tough. it's like any product: if the customer doesn't like it, he'll look elsewhere. just remember, if you piss him off too, he won't come back.

Edited by EM1O, June 12 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[nokari]

GenAce, on June 12 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

nokari, on June 11 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

GenAce, on June 11 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Wow Ker4u you obviously don't read at all.

Quote

The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.

The daily win bonuse needs TO GO all together. TO GO means to leave.. to not be around.

And cheaters are going to cheat anyway.. regardless if they do or don't get bonuses.

You realize what you said is in agreement to what I said, right_ I suggested the win bonus needs to go and that players should get increasing bonuses for playing consecutive matches (with a limit).

Wrong - What I realized and what you missed was this:

Quote

The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.

- The ENTIRE system needs to go NO WIN BONUSE - NO CONSECUTIVE stay bonuse. My words were again - because you have such a hard time understanding a persons meaning "And INSTEAD (to replace something) they need to adjust the credits so each match you EARN more."

You earn credits by completing objectives and by killing the opposing team.

I like how you change the meaning of what you previously said to fit your "i'm right, you're wrong" attitude. You said "the daily win bonus". You never said "all bonuses of any kind". Apparently saying a specific thing means another thing...

I don't care if you disagree. It's still a "bonus" of sorts for playing consecutive matches within the same server. With both of our suggestions you get the same result: If you play the same server, you get extra HC for being in consecutive matches. If you jump between different servers, you don't get extra HC.

Edited by nokari, June 12 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[GenAce]

LOL - whatever Nokari - if you could two plus two together you would have realized I didn't need to reiterate my self ---->

Quote

I disagree Nokari - this encourages players to just go AFK and have a macro set to walk forward into a wall so the game doesn't know any better. The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.

I don't have to mention your "consecutive bonuse" because I've already disagreed with you. And the statement after that was just an addition too it AND because it's already implemented in the game - HENCE WHY IT NEEDS TO GO---->

Quote

Wrong - What I realized and what you missed was this:

Quote

Quote
The daily win bonuse needs to go all together and instead they need to adjust the credits so each match you earn more.
- The ENTIRE system needs to go NO WIN BONUSE - NO CONSECUTIVE stay bonuse. My words were again - because you have such a hard time understanding a persons meaning "And INSTEAD (to replace something) they need to adjust the credits so each match you EARN more."

You earn credits by completing objectives and by killing the opposing team.

I don't give a D if you care or not.

Quote

"It's still a "bonus" of sorts for playing consecutive matches within the same server. With both of our suggestions you get the same result: If you play the same server, you get extra HC for being in consecutive matches. If you jump between different servers, you don't get extra HC."

^ This again is wrong ^

I didn't even say you get extra HC for being in consecutive matches... again because you are unable to comprehend my statement I will highlight it for you..

Quote

You earn credits by completing objectives and by killing the opposing team.

This meaning if you have a hard time understanding is INDEPENDENT of STAYING on a particular server. This has every DEPENDENCE of completing objectives and killing the opposing team. Which this statement then ties into ----->

Quote

Meraple, on June 11 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:
GenAce, on June 11 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:
Just an idea - WoT rotates the game modes. So the suggestion based on that precedents would be: three types of servers. DM/TDM, Objective play (Missile Assault and Siege), and co-op.

Get rid of the server browser all together and to allow the match making system draw from a larger pool of players and reduce the post game timer.

Could everyone agree with that_

no
TDM masterrace

Why not_ This allows variance in the types of modes and maps. Players can still still leave and then join another play type. What is your real objection_

by removing the server browser all together that forces people to pick a game type - this ensures that every game type then has a pool of players to pull from which then has a better chance of getting players of the same MMR. No one benefits from a HC daily bonuse or consecutive win bonsue which means there won't be any AFKers or Switchers.

You EARN (theres that word again) credits and XP by completing objectives and killing your opponent.

Did I spell everything out for you now or do you still have any confusion_

Edited by GenAce, June 12 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[nokari]

GenAce, on June 12 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

snip

I get what you were saying now, despite your god awful attitude. You really have a way of being round-about in your meanings while trying to be a fuzzy bunny in the process instead of just calmly explaining yourself. Good job.


You're saying you simply want HC rewards in general to be increased and to get rid of any kind of bonuses. So, for example, instead of getting 5 HC for a kill you would get 20 HC.

I'm not against that idea, but well we had that before, for a very long time. It didn't prevent people from leaving matches. They'd leave because they were losing or because they weren't earning a lot, and most people started playing Siege and MA exclusively because that gave out the most HC.
While I don't personally mind the latter because that's what I usually play, but what about combining both suggestions to improve rewards for playing AND encourage staying in a server_

For example, if there's no bonus then I can just quit a match whenever I feel like I can't win or get a lot of HC. I'll just try my luck in the next one and hope I'm put on the better team. But if there's a bonus for staying, whether I win or lose, and the next match might be a better balance, why not stay_ And if I'm doing really well, that's an even greater incentive to stay because I'll be making much more HC than if I just jumped to another server at the end of every match.

Edited by nokari, June 12 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[GenAce]

Actually my attitude got awful after this statement:

Quote

I like how you change the meaning of what you previously said to fit your "i'm right, you're wrong" attitude. You said "the daily win bonus". You never said "all bonuses of any kind". Apparently saying a specific thing means another thing...

I don't care if you disagree

Up untill then it was quite calm and under the tone of a friendly debate.

Quote

It didn't prevent people from leaving matches. They'd leave because they were losing or because they weren't earning a lot, and most people started playing Siege and MA exclusively because that gave out the most HC.
While I don't personally mind the latter because that's what I usually play, but what about combining both suggestions to improve rewards for playing AND encourage staying in a server

People are going to leave regardless - but by removing the server browser - as I have already mentioned - you get put back into a pool which you pick from the three server types: DM/TDM - MA/Siege - CoOP -> what then eventually happens is that you may find your self back into the same server that you just left. And more then just that; is that there is a better chance of finding a player that has the proper MMR for that server to fill that empty slot.

There are side effects to this approach.. it means less server farms. But ultimately as more players start enjoying each match - because they are full and balanced - they start attracting more people - those servers that were shut down then come back.

Edited by GenAce, June 12 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[nokari]

GenAce, on June 12 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Actually my attitude got awful after this statement:

Quote

I like how you change the meaning of what you previously said to fit your "i'm right, you're wrong" attitude. You said "the daily win bonus". You never said "all bonuses of any kind". Apparently saying a specific thing means another thing...

I don't care if you disagree

Up untill then it was quite calm and under the tone of a friendly debate.

If you say so.

[Terr_]

teeth_03, on June 11 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

You missed the point.

No, I read the rest of the posts, I'm snarkily pointing out that the whole thread is mis-titled.

[teeth_03]

Terr_, on June 12 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

teeth_03, on June 11 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

You missed the point.

No, I read the rest of the posts, I'm snarkily pointing out that the whole thread is mis-titled.

I don't see how so, we are discussing what could be done about
"You guys [devs] seriously need to address people leaving post match.."


(forum copies text formatting which is awkward and annoying)

[Odra]

People will still leave, and with the whole "They might be thrown back into the same server" they might just shut down Hawken and play something else, diminishing the player pool.

"Good riddance" some might say, but with lower population you are left with a loyal user base.
A small loyal users base that know the game's ins and outs and will stomp newcomers.

The point of any game is to make money to its creators, and any idea that drives away players in favor of idealism will only hurt the publishers.

Now, lets say that idea (No server list/may be thrown to the same server) is implemented.

So I'm stuck with a fuzzy bunny team on Siege, can't leave... FINE!
Collect EU, Deposit EU, Don't fight, fuzzy bunny the AA, fuzzy bunny the team, Shoot the ship and repeat until match ends and I collect my earnings.

Now imagine finding teammates like that on every server.


Most people will always look for the easiest way to receive satisfaction, they don't care about improving or cooperating or challenges or anyone else's game experience.

They just want to collect their earnings as fast and easy as possible.

Edited by Odra, June 15 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[melk8381]

I leave matches after it's over because it is faster to re-queue and join a new match. Simple as that.

I would love love LOVE significantly shorter wait times before matches.

[Klaw]

I always join games through server browser to avoid wait times and cherry pick maps I like.  If I play with a cool group who have hilarious chatter I'll stay on a server but for the most part I bail because I want to play on Bazaar, and don't want Bunker.  

My solution_  Fix up the maps, make some new maps, or randomize the map queue.  I know I can play Facility followed by Bazaar... I know Bunker is right after Prosk so no matter the quality of the game, I'm not sticking around for newb rockets of bunker.

But I agree ON wait times, 10 seconds to load in a queue, then another 30 to ready up, then another 45 seconds of pre game.... it's tediously long to get into the action.  Anything to shave time off the wait would help.  Otherwise I stick to my server browsing.

[[HWK]HUGHES]

rekina, on June 11 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

Qazda, on June 11 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

What about throwing everybody back into matchmaking after each match, like in Ghost Recon Online_ Instead of having 2 half-full matches have just 1 full match. Would need to disable server browsing though and we all know how well that went last time...

What makes me really frustrating is, literally they are adding more features on the current system. It seems they are not going to change this any time soon. I'm just hoping they are doing something right. I wish this issue to be addressed asap.

What features are we adding on the current system_

We've also mentioned in the past that we plan to remove server rollovers when custom servers are a full feature. The "long" delay between matches was a mix of a conscious creative director decision, internal feedback and feedback from specific sources (non-public industry personnel connected to company interests) to address match fatigue concerns but this won't be as much of an issue with rollovers being removed from Quick Match.

[melk8381]

What do you mean by 'rollovers'_

Thanks for responding. I love the game!

[[HWK]HUGHES]

melk8381, on June 16 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

What do you mean by 'rollovers'_

Thanks for responding. I love the game!

Meaning after a match it throws you back into matchmaking. You don't necessarily stay on the same server. It's not quite as simple to do as it sounds because there are other related features that must be implemented to do it properly but that's the general idea.

Glad to hear you love the game as well, thanks!

[teeth_03]

Players running custom servers should be able to adjust wait times, imo.

My Blunt My point of view:

You want a break from "match fatigue"_ Leave the game for a few minutes. Also, fuzzy bunny the people that need the garage every match, that is what the main menu is for. As long as we can still pick weapons (without the garage), we should have the option for continuing play without interruption as humanly possible.

Have a 10 second prematch time, and 10 second post match time, that is all we need.

[Terr_]

At the risk of necroequinopugilism:

• Post-match time is a bit more than needed.
  
• A lot of people are chasing the daily-win bonuses, being able to vote another mode might cause them to stay.
  
• Sometimes I leave because my team got stomped and I don't trust the team-balancer to solve it the next time around.

[Hell_Diguner]

Daily win bonuses
+ Increase HC earnings greatly
+ Give players a goal beyond simply winning
+ Encourage playing game modes you otherwise might not play
- Encourage leaving immediately after getting the bonus
- Encourage abusing the system to find a match you think you can easily win
- Encourage leaving games early if you think you can't win

How can we keep the positives and reduce the negatives_
Let me borrow some ideas from a few other games. Remove the daily win bonus and replace them with daily objective focused missions. These missions shall give bonus HC for completing multiple objectives - which usually span across different game modes. The objectives are not completed until the game finishes, to help prevent early leaving.

Some examples/ideas:
- Support - Deliver 600 EU in Siege, Get 5 kill assists in DM, Eliminate 30 drones in Coop Bot Destruction
- Alpha - Get 3 critical kill assists in any game mode, Kill 3 mechs standing outside silo control zones in MA, Get a kill streak of 10 in Coop TDM
- Omega - have a 3.0 damage ratio at the end of Coop TDM, Have a score over 2000 in TDM, Kill a mech carrying more than 140 EU in Siege
- TDM Service - Win two games of TDM, Kill 10 mechs in TDM, Become a nemesis in TDM twice, Get two Savior or Revenge bonus kills in TDM.
- MA Service - Win two games of MA, Kill a mech while standing in a friendly silo, Kill a mech while standing in an enemy silo, Obtain all three silos at some point.
- Helping Hand - Get three assists in DM, three in TDM, three in MA, three in Siege, and three in Coop TDM
- Compensation Prize - Lose a game in three different game modes.
- Outstanding Service - Win a game of DM and Coop Bot Destruction, Win a game and be the top of your team in TDM, MA, and Siege, lose in any game mode but have the highest score among everybody on both teams, Volunteer to switch teams in any game mode and end up winning the game.
- Party Mix - (Complete any five) Taunt three times after getting a kill in any competitive mode, use a consumable in Coop Bot Destruction, Deal 100 damage with items, Get a kill while your ability is on cooldown, Chat with the Coop TDM bots, 180-turn 20 times in 10 seconds, Kill or assist in the destruction of a battleship turret in Siege, receive damage while repairing, receive damage from four different enemies and then don't heal for 20 seconds (death and any type of repairing reset this one), have less than a full tank of fuel for 20 seconds, be killed by an enemy launched silo missile in Siege or Missile Assault, Get a crushing kill, kill an enemy who had taunted less than 15 seconds ago, simultaneously be a nemesis and have a nemesis, get a kill having only done damage to the enemy with your primary or your secondary weapon.

Edited by Hell_Diguner, June 16 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[teeth_03]

Having other bonuses still won't stop people from leaving. I do think its a neat idea, to have achievements you can get every game.

[Terr_]

Perhaps replace the current win-bonus system with something more granular:

• 3 daily "Win a game" (200 HC)
  
• 4 weekly "Win 3 games in [a specific mode]" (700 HC)

Benefits:

• Same total HC bonus possible per week as before, at roughly the same number of wins per week. (Can be less due to overlap!)
  
• Players are encouraged to stick with a particular server (and mode) after a win, rather than encouraged to leave.
  
• People are encouraged to try different modes eventually during the week.

Edited by Terr_, June 17 2014 - 09:58 AM.