74 replies to this topic

[Patrick Bateman]

Why was this change made instead of giving the flak cannon the slight DPS nerf it needed_ The class is an A tier with a cloak thats primarily about close quarter encounters, ambushing, and retreating/deluding enemies.

The heat cannon is a slow, mid to long range weapon and doesn't make sense when paired with a class like infiltrator, especially since it has a GL launcher that fires in an arc that is relatively hard to hit someone with unless you're somewhat close to them to begin with.

The heat cannon gives the mech an odd undefined direction, that would have been better suited to the sharpshooter or sniper class, as it is primarily at a distance majority of the time, where the heat cannon is best utilized.

Thoughts_

Edited by Patrick Bateman, October 25 2012 - 11:20 PM.

[CharlieCroker]

I felt the heat cannon was suited for mid range battles too, but feel it's not entirely out of place on the infiltrator. It's odd, but not completely wrong. I have also a sneaking suspicion that they removed the flak from the infiltrator to so called balance As for people who wanted to camp in Cs or as a sniper. Taking flak from infiltrator is also a bit odd but not entirely wrong. However doing both is a bit silly.

[Patrick Bateman]

it strikes me as odd that they would remove the flak and replace it with a heat cannon in order to balance out A classes in response to the threads about people saying how A class is overpowered, but then do absolutely nothing in response to the people saying the snipers and sharpshooters are overpowered, as theres been no visible changes to the stats or weaponry to the sharpshooter

[Stag]

I was just about to post about this. The HE Cannon is going to ruin the allure of the infiltrator and the play style that surrounds it.

Gimmie dat flak back son.

[[HWK]Deuy]

Keep in mind design is in flux still, we're doing a lot of testing things out.  This is a real Beta, not an early access reward for pre-ordering or something.  You'll probably see a lot of classes and builds getting switched up and tweaked throughout the next waves of closed beta.

That said, I actually like infiltrator with Heat Canon.  Heat/EOC and grenade launcher is my favorite combo!

[PiVoR]

Flak/GL was op combo, replacing Flak with Heat changes nothing if GL is still that strong how it was before.
btw. any updated weapon table_

[HookedOnPwnics]

Oh what_ I can't wait to try this on people.

[FluxX]

Deuy, on October 25 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Keep in mind design is in flux still, we're doing a lot of testing things out.  This is a real Beta, not an early access reward for pre-ordering or something.  You'll probably see a lot of classes and builds getting switched up and tweaked throughout the next waves of closed beta.

That said, I actually like infiltrator with Heat Canon.  Heat/EOC and grenade launcher is my favorite combo!

Thanks. I would guess the heat cannon gives the Infiltrator a genuine long range option_ As the old one seemed to be 100% close range_ While it makes a sneak up instant kill impossible, it might actually work for making it easier for players to pick off targets and hide. So hopefully it is just as much fun to play, just less Over Powered than the flack. Although, would a mini flack be the in between option_

[noten]

Stop making the GL sound like it's hard to use, because it's not, it's still the best secondary weapon.

I've been waiting for a heat cannon on an A mech, this is gonna be fun to play, I hope it makes it into the final version.

Deuy, on October 25 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Heat/EOC and grenade launcher is my favorite combo!

THIS MAN HAS GOOD TASTE. EXPLOSIVES4LYFE.

[FenixStryk]

Heat/Grenade is still a deadly combo, although I'm curious as to why the A class was given access to Heat at all. Heat Cannon being B/C only was the main reason I even ran the Demolition over the Infiltrator...

[Patrick Bateman]

the point is not that the grenade launcher is or isnt hard to use, but the fact thats its better suited to the short-short/midrange distance to be most effective, while the heat cannon is a predominantly midrange-long range weapon that doesnt make sense on a class like the infiltrator, certainly not when the option to give it to the sniper or something else is possible. its more of a support/barrage weapon similar to hellfires that are best utilized on Bs and Cs from a distance that people can be slightly disengaged from teamfights in, while classes like assaults and infiltrators do mainly all the up close business

its a dumb decision to just flat out remove what made the infiltrator actually viable as a class and defined its playstyle, instead of just toning down the flak cannon like it needed

now you have a class based around mobility and elusiveness with 2 weapons that are suited to 2 different zones of play, removing the assault rifle instead and giving the flak cannon a nerf would have been the more sensible way to do it if you were going to go through the trouble of adding such a nonsensical weapon in the first place

the reverse would be giving a C class the flak cannon while they dont have the agility or speed to use it effectively on anything other than other C classes, it just doesnt make sense and I believe there was a reason why these weapons were restricted to the A B and C tiers they were in the alpha

Edited by Patrick Bateman, October 26 2012 - 06:24 AM.

[noten]

In alpha one of the C class mechs did have a flak cannon.

Also the heat cannon can be used at all ranges, however because of projectile speed, it's actually better in close range than far.

Furthermore the heat cannon is a burst damage explosive weapon, like the GL, so they share similarities.

The flak cannon being a hitscan weapon is more of a consistent damage weapon for close range which actually makes it the odd couple for the GL.

To add on to the mobility aspect, the heat cannon would actually complement the A class mech very well. Being a charged explosive weapon, you can charge it up behind cover, reveal yourself to release the shot AND GL shot, and then use the speed of the A mech to dash back into cover, essentially doing burst damage while leaving yourself exposed for a very short time. In fact I actually think this is the reason why they did not add the heat cannon to the A mech in alpha as it would be too good a combination, comparable to the sniper but instead with burst damage explosive weapons.

Edited by noten, October 26 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Hipnox]

I don't really mind because i'm still waiting to see mech customization system we saw on one of those videos a while ago. You know the one without sub-classes, just weight types, where you build your mech from scratch. It still makes a lot more sense than the current iteration.

[Frenotx]

I did that fuzzy bunny with the EOC all the time. Very fun, very dangerous.

[PhoenixHawk]

I don't see how the HEAT is a detriment at all to the play style of a sneaky mech. As noted above, this gives it great burst damage. I'd think that in a heated battle between teams, an infiltrator can cloak, flank and then burst damage a wounded enemy for a super quick support kill that would be highly effective. Alternately it could be a mid range harasser with a great escape mechanic. Lob in a few grenades, plink with a charged up HEAT round and then use the A class's superior mobility and the cloak to displace without taking too much damage. You stay viable for longer with fewer repair lulls and you can confuse the heck out of your opponents. If you can't think of an alternate use for weapons loadouts with the cloak ability, you're just not thinking creatively enough.

Edited by PhoenixHawk, October 26 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[MajorAjer]

I personally like it better. The HEAT Cannon makes the infiltrator viable at a greater range of distances. Cloaking seems like more of an escape than an ambush now.

[Ge3k0]

The full-sized flak was absurdly OP, but the heat cannon makes no sense on this class.  I would prefer the mini-flak over the Heat cannon.

[Juodvarnis]

Mini flak sounds like the better option, along with the SMG

[noten]

I love the new infiltrator. HEAT + GL + cloak + A mech is op, please don't take it away from me =P

[Beemann]

TBH I like the HEAT+GL combo better than GL+Flak
I can still burst down people fairly quickly, and I now have a method of pissing off sharpshooters who don't pay enough attention to their surroundings