1316 replies to this topic

[Nept]

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

[Leonhardt]

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

[SS396]

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

I didn't use choose a vague term, I simply RECOGNIZED and used the very same term Nept did.

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Choice or not, doesn't matter, if the matchmaker puts you into a single match, its true and renders Nepts statement false.  Your post proved it was possible to get into a single match, and proved Nepts statement about someone with a high MMR getting into ANY match as FALSE.  I've also mentioned many other ways to disprove his assertion, maybe you didn't read those, and thats ok.  I don't blame you for just bandwagoning when you saw the opportunity.

Edited by SS396, October 29 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[Amidatelion]

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Ashfire908, on October 29 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Sweet now I can start posting to this thread again!

Oh did you find some news_

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not leaving, I'm just done with Dave and iNept.

Oh good, I was worried that Hawken's Gallants had lost one of their Goofuses.

Such a tragedy that would have been.

[IareDave]

This is for you SS396

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

It might just blow your mind.

[Nept]

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

You can't unload a pain train into the already-occupied devastation station.  It's poor form.

[SS396]

# while true; do echo "Any != All"; done

Spoiler

For all you computer illiterate people out there, thats an infinite loop, where it will just list "Any != All" forever.

[Xacius]

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

You can't unload a pain train into the already-occupied devastation station.  It's poor form.

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

Edited by Xacius, October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[SS396]

IareDave, on October 29 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

This is for you SS396

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

It might just blow your mind.

Thanks Dave,

Heres something for you.

https://www.playhawk...ide/maps/origin

https://www.playhawk...maps/front-line

Maybe you can use that to learn the difference when someone says Frontline and when you say Origin in a post.  lol.

[SS396]

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

Nah, you clowns are having too much fun and enjoyment spamming useless info, instead of actually debating the argument.

Enjoy, and Toodles.

[DerMax]

Would anyone in this thread be interested in dueling me right now_

[Nept]

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

Nah, I'm having too much fun and enjoyment spamming useless info, instead of actually debating the argument.

FTFY

[IareDave]

Everytime you say the word toodles 10% of your testosterone fuzzy bunny out and turns into estrogen.

This could be you in the near future..

Edited by IareDave, October 29 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Xacius]

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

Nah, I'm having too much fun and enjoyment spamming useless info, instead of actually debating the argument.

FTFY

[hestoned]

i love you Hawken :C

[JeffMagnum]

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

You can't unload a pain train into the already-occupied devastation station.  It's poor form.

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

This is possibly the most convoluted quote pyramid I've ever seen here.

[Amidatelion]

IareDave, on October 29 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Everytime you say the word toodles 10% of your testosterone fuzzy bunny out and turns into estrogen.

This could be you in the near future..

What the devil was so bad about that word that the filter fuzzed it_

Also, while it is ok and great fun to make fun of floundering morons lets not sully our hands with misogyny.

[Nept]

JeffMagnum, on October 29 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

You can't unload a pain train into the already-occupied devastation station.  It's poor form.

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

This is possibly the most convoluted quote pyramid I've ever seen here.

Is it_

[Leonhardt]

IareDave, on October 29 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Everytime you say the word toodles 10% of your testosterone fuzzy bunny out and turns into estrogen.

This could be you in the near future..

That guy clearly missed leg day.

[comic_sans]

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

JeffMagnum, on October 29 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Xacius, on October 29 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Leonhardt, on October 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

SS396, on October 29 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

lol.

Any != ALL.  How about you acknowledge that one_  Should of chosen a better work to restrict your domain accordingly.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

SS396, on October 28 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

"His MMR prevents him from accessing any matches"  That statement is false, if he chooses a mode by quickmatch it will eventually find a match for him, just because a high tier match (2200+) isn't immediately available does not mean its IMPOSSIBLE to get stuffed into one automagically by the quick match feature of the game AS YOU ASSERTED.  Also, he could find scrims with several of his cohorts, or get onto private servers where the MMR restriction is turned off, or simply get into a party with a much lower player.  So your choice of word "ANY" is simply incorrect rendering the statement completely false.  See any means at least 1, so All I have to do is prove that he can infact get into one single game, which we all know is easily possible, Right_  

You're correct in that I've used too sweeping a term re: “any”. You're less correct than you think, though. When your MMR climbs past the 2600 mark, quickmatch frequently fails to find matches. It simply times out. You quickmatch again, and it times out. You quickmatch a third time, and it times out. Forget searching for a specific gametype, you won't find games across gametypes or across regions. These timeouts happen regardless of open, low-MMR matches. I have personally sat through quickmatch requeues for 30+ minutes.

As for scrims, Omni plays infrequently and typically shows only for matches (or for the occasional scrim request from friendly teams). Even when we were highly active, scrims weren't exactly abundant. If you think that finding scrims with your statistical outlier cohorts is simple, then you've never been a statistical outlier. Not in the good sense, anyway.

As for joining on friends, well, friends list. Also, joining on friends doesn't evade MMR restrictions. As for the private servers, people don't use them as frequently as you apparently think. In fact, people typically use them only for practice, scrims, or matches (which is their purpose).

So you see, even though it is technically possible for Dave to find games, it's far from frequently feasible. Also note that your demands upon Dave re: public servers – that he stick with the matchmaker or join through parties ( the latter rendered more difficult without a functional friends list) – result in much the same end: Dave will find himself on servers with lower-ranking players.

The only difference between your demands and Dave's “smurfing,” then, is that the former requires that Dave sit twiddling his thumbs while matchmaking continuously denies him games. And that's a ridiculous sentiment coming from someone whose patience couldn't withstand even a single match against Dave.


Now, I've humoured your attempt at playing semantics, but it's important that you realize that hedging a term (or failing to, in my case) is very different from equivocation (which is what you did). I'll explain that again here, since you seem intent on ignoring it:

Nept, on October 28 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

What I said: There's nothing unfair about having superior skills in a video game (and using them).  Mollycoddling community members by preventing them from playing against stronger opponents has nothing to do with "fairness"; it's simply a means of maximizing community retention . . . Now if you were attempting to argue that it wasn't "fun" for the weaker players, then you might find yourself with some footing.  Even then, though, you're casting an overly-wide net by painting all players with the same negative nancy, woe is me attitude that you've assumed as of late.

What you had said: So yeah, someone with the in game skills to get 2797.2271728515625 MMR has to play smurf accounts and blame the matchmaker for not letting them into matches where his skill out weights everyone in the rest of the match.  You think your piloting skills get lower if you start a new account_  Can't you see how completely fuzzy bunny unfair that is_

What you changed your position to:  "it is not fun to be on the receiving end of that.  And since you can't seem to understand that, it must mean that you've never experienced that before, but just think about how you would feel"

The moment you understand that little fact, we can move onto another discussion.

Veritasnous, on October 29 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Nept: "Any" was followed by comments about the amount of time it takes to find matches. I took you as quantifying over matches that could be found in a reasonable amount of time.

So there was really no need to abandon "any" as too sweeping a term, since your follow up comments restricted the domain nicely.

Dave's smurfing sometimes frustrates me, but even at the 2100-2200 level it can often be hard to find a 2-3 star match, so I don't hold it against him. At least Dave's not an arse about it, whereas a decent section of the 2600+ gang come into lower level matches and spread the arrogance and superiority on thick.

It seems to me this very subject has already been addressed by everyone, but you. Your use of vague terms in the hopes of finding a hole only shows a lack of understanding in logical argument frame work as its rule #1 not to be vague and #2 to use specificity of language which you have clearly not done in the hopes of creating a "trap" for those responding. This does not add to the validity of your argument in the slightest.

Also you should look at the second meaning of the word "whichever of a specified class might be chosen." This meaning implies a choice of which the player has none as I stated earlier.

Nept, on October 29 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Leon bringing the Truth Train into the Devastation Station!

Toot Toot!

Ohhhhh SNAPPLEBERRIES.

You can't unload a pain train into the already-occupied devastation station.  It's poor form.

I'd love to see SS396 actually reply to the quote pyramid.  If I were in his position, I'd probably cop out like a little b!tch-baby too.

This is possibly the most convoluted quote pyramid I've ever seen here.

Is it_

This is really the only recourse in a dev tracking thread when there's no devs left to track!

Also, I really like how you guys continued the pain train/devastation station metaphor.