69 replies to this topic

[TheChaffeemancer]

PiVoR, on November 09 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

how it can be op if it got lowest dps in the game_ ;o

By being better in other categories.

[Timber_Wolf]

Who the hell gets pegged by the sabot three times in a row_  You'd have to stand out in the open for at least 30 seconds.  In CQC the brawler will destroy sharpshooters every time if they're both playing optimally.  The flak cannon has one of the best DPS in the game along with the vulcan.  If you're hit by a sharpshooter, slide behind cover and if this means you're farther away from another enemy you were fighting who has an AR or something, congratulations, you've been outmaneuvered.  Yes, a damage boosted sabot+slug rifle hit HURTS, but it wont kill you and you can slide behind cover extremely easily and their DPS, as others have said, is actually really low.

EDIT:  Also, they can't use their radar when they're scoped in, right_  It makes them incredibly easy to sneak up on.  I can do it as a rocketeer so you should be able to do it as a brawler and do it better.

Edited by Timber_Wolf, November 09 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[defekt]

Dreizehn, on November 09 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Hitscan doesn't mean 100% hit. Sure if the player is really that good. But it can be very hard to draw a bead on a light that's circle strafing you. Or people super far away dashing everywhere.

Nobody said that it was 100% but it's definitely the easiest aim in the game; point-click-kill interface.

[DDwarrior]

See Darkpulse is still causing people to rage with that big fuzzy bunny rifle.

Usually a fight with a Sharpshooter is loopsided if he misses.  I find them to be annoying if they work well with a team and move well around the field.  Close combat on the other hand is just fine.

Edited by DDwarrior, November 09 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[DarkPulse]

killyg, on November 09 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

stand downrange from any rifle that shoots super sonic rounds, you'll hear the sonic boom arrive at the same time as the projectile, followed later by the muzzle blast.

>Talks about supersonic rounds, but then mentions bullet + sound arriving at same time

LOL que_

Let's take an example.

• Speed of sound: 343.2 meters/second.
  
• Muzzle velocity of a 293 grain, 9.3x62mm round: 730 meters/second.
  
• Conclusion: The bullet will have traveled about a kilometer before the sound reaches about half a kilometer. Therefore, assuming this were a fatal shot, the target will be killed before he ever hears the report of the rifle.

The "sonic boom" you're postulating really wouldn't be heard, because the bullet is really small (smaller size = smaller boom), and again, if it were a kill shot, well, the target would be pretty much killed before he could hear any theoretical sonic boom.

Furthermore, the boom is produced where the gun is shot, and that boom travels at - wait for it - the speed of sound!

Science, not "Hollywood horse pucky," dictates this.

DDwarrior, on November 09 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

See Darkpulse is still causing people to rage with that big fuzzy bunny rifle.

What can I say_ I aim to please, and shoot to kill.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 09 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[JustJake]

DarkPulse, on November 09 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

DDwarrior, on November 09 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

See Darkpulse is still causing people to rage with that big fuzzy bunny rifle.

What can I say_ I aim to please, and shoot to kill.

I like this.

[DM30]

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Would be way too loud. It's a rifle, not a cannon. If anything, it should be a sharp crack, not a thundering boom.

You're forgetting that these are mechs, so while it may be called a 'rifle', it really is still more like a cannon, just with a long barrel and a scope view.

And I kind of like the idea of a more distinct impact sound of the sabot rifle. If something that powerful is slamming into your mech's armour, it's going to make one heck of a ping. However, no, it shouldn't be so deafening that it can't be overlooked in an intense firefight.

Edited by DM30, November 09 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[DarkPulse]

DM30, on November 09 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

You're forgetting that these are mechs, so while it may be called a 'rifle', it really is still more like a cannon, just with a long barrel and a scope view.

Someone else pointed that out and I acknowledged it earlier.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 09 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[womb]

killyg, on November 09 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I know it's poor to bring real-life examples into a videogame, but in real life, a sniper bullet travels faster than the sound from it does. Oftentimes you won't even hear it before it hits unless they're very close by.

this is not how super-sonic projectiles work at all, it's pure hollywood bullshit.

stand downrange from any rifle that shoots super sonic rounds, you'll hear the sonic boom arrive at the same time as the projectile, followed later by the muzzle blast.

that's just a nonsense comment, seriously. if the bullet travels faster than sound, than it will get there before the sound. the real effect may vary because of other stuff, like the bullet loosing speed, the "supersonic rifle" being just a name or the gap between the two arriving is too small for us to hear. because the phisics concept is simple: if something is faster than other, it'll get faster to the other place. that's the same reason why you see lightnings before hearing them: light is faster than sound (a lot faster).
just thought i should clear this up...

[Subdivision]

I don't see why making a louder noise will solve anything what-so-ever. If you can't tell you're being hit by a sharpshooter as a C-class and die then you need to practice the game a bit more. Use of cover and moving about as much as possible is really easy and solves many issues. as a C class you have massive sustainability. I just had a game (as a brawler as always) I ended at 29:2:9. I had a 25 kill streak and then I got bored. Clearly I was playing much worse players. That isn't the point. The point is you can stay alive very easily.

Until I can get some decent balanced games in I wont comment on whether or not the sharpshooter needs a nerf but I rarely feel their presence significantly in any game.

[Entity]

I've been enjoying the brawler and have better results with it than with the sharpshooter or the assault, in DM and TDM games.

Which is odd because I'm more of a mobility/sniper kind of guy normally

Edited by Entity, November 09 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[thepeopleselbow]

TheChaffeemancer, on November 08 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Please avoid the ad hominem

TheChaffeemancer, on November 08 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Even with that limitation, he still is quite effective when in the hands of someone not incompetent.

[DarkPulse]

Entity, on November 09 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I've been enjoying the brawler and have better results with it than with the sharpshooter or the assault, in DM and TDM games.

Which is odd because I'm more of a mobility/sniper kind of guy normally

Even more ironically_ I don't really play snipers in other FPSes, either.

[killyg]

womb, on November 09 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

killyg, on November 09 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I know it's poor to bring real-life examples into a videogame, but in real life, a sniper bullet travels faster than the sound from it does. Oftentimes you won't even hear it before it hits unless they're very close by.

this is not how super-sonic projectiles work at all, it's pure hollywood bullshit.

stand downrange from any rifle that shoots super sonic rounds, you'll hear the sonic boom arrive at the same time as the projectile, followed later by the muzzle blast.

that's just a nonsense comment, seriously. if the bullet travels faster than sound, than it will get there before the sound. the real effect may vary because of other stuff, like the bullet loosing speed, the "supersonic rifle" being just a name or the gap between the two arriving is too small for us to hear. because the phisics concept is simple: if something is faster than other, it'll get faster to the other place. that's the same reason why you see lightnings before hearing them: light is faster than sound (a lot faster).
just thought i should clear this up...

Sonic booms travel at the same speed as the projectile in the space in front of the projectile.  The person getting shot by a super sonic round will ALWAYS hear the crack at the same time as he gets hit.  Sound is only delayed if the observer is to the side of the projectile as it passes by.

Again, things like COD and Hollywood are terrible representations of how things work in real life.

Edited by killyg, November 09 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[DarkPulse]

killyg, on November 09 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Sonic booms travel at the same speed as the projectile in the space in front of the projectile.  The person getting shot by a super sonic round will ALWAYS hear the crack at the same time as he gets hit.  Sound is only delayed if the observer is to the side of the projectile as it passes by.

Again, things like COD and Hollywood are terrible representations of how things work in real life.

"A sonic boom produced by an aircraft moving at M=2.92, calculated from the cone angle of 20 degrees. An observer hears the boom when the shock wave, on the edges of the cone, crosses his or her location."

Translation: If you shoot someone in the head, they're not going to hear it until the sound wave would pass them. The reason_ While the sonic boom is indeed created by the air pressure, the actual spreading of that comes from the wake of the object, not the air being pushed in front, and like all sound, it must obey the speed of sound. In this case, the person would hear any sort of small sonic boom pretty much right after the bullet slams into their skull - and it's the last thing they hear, assuming it doesn't kill them quicker than the brain could process the sound. They're basically already dead by the time they hear it though.

The only time you'll hear it "at the same time" is if it's relatively close, i.e; a couple hundred yards out, but once you get into sniper rifles and their kilometer-plus ranges, you could well land the shot well before the target ever knows what hit them. womb mentioned lightning as an example, and we all know that one - we see the flash, and we can determine how far the bolt was from us by counting the delay, since sound travels a mile in about five seconds. The shorter the delay, the closer the strike to us, until it's essentially so close to us it's almost instantaneous.

[Quidius]

Female, on November 08 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

DarkPulse, on November 08 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Plus, what's a sniper's main job_ That's right, picking off the weak stragglers...

Unfortunately that isn't it's job. Sharpshooters take out my level 12 armor specced Brawler in 3 shots.

yup. i mean this game tends to favor the light weight mechs with speed. and if you cant hit them with the already slow weapons brawlers have atleast they should balance out more of the tanking ability or make them abit faster as well.

[Rooslin]

Killyg i think its time to end it .... accept defeat

[DarkPulse]

Quidius, on November 09 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

yup. i mean this game tends to favor the light weight mechs with speed. and if you cant hit them with the already slow weapons brawlers have atleast they should balance out more of the tanking ability or make them abit faster as well.

You can make brawlers faster by speccing into the movement tree and getting some internals that increase speed. However, their speed decrease is the penalty they get in exchange for more armor (and with the right stuff, they can have almost twice the armor of an A-Class).

The A-Class is always going to be faster, and the C-Class is always going to take more shots to kill. It's the name of the game.

[Quidius]

also alot of people are forgetting that its a tank class vs the sniper not the other more agile classes where you can dodge and keep moving to avoid the sniper rounds. whats a tank if you have 12 points on defensive and cant take the damage_ so you would have to a mech that would be more mobile.

[TheMadness]

The Hawken forums have taught me so many things. The actual definition of a simulator, the arrival time of a sonic boom...

On topic though, any mech with a good pilot will cause people problems. Even the poor Rocketeer. I will say that I have more problems with Sharpshooters and Infiltrators, but I don't lose to every single one I see, so I can't really outright declare them OP.

Edited by TheMadness, November 09 2012 - 05:12 PM.