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Brawler = Usless now with new patch.


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#61 hitabowl

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Posted November 09 2012 - 05:25 PM

I agree that a much sharper crack sound should be added to the sabot rifle or something should to the equivalent of Battlefield 3 where a voice yells "SNIPER!" should be added (maybe a sniper symbol or a robotic voice or just a distinguishable sabot rifle sound). The sniper is incredibly strong which I don't mind, but being able to know there's one around in the midst of a chaotic fight is incredibly hard as it stands now (doesn't matter how good your "situational awareness is" when you're fighting on a map like Sahara trying to go for S1 against 3 enemy mechs).

Also, I tried playing a Brawler and absolutely hated it. A-class and B-class mechs were able to dance around me and boost away (more so A-class) so my Flak Cannon was useless and while an A or B class would be distracting me, other mechs could take pot shots because of a Brawlers lack of mobility and seemingly little armour. This is coming from an experienced FPS player and one who LOVES shotguns in MW3. I know my shotguns. I also don't understand why a class with a shotgun as it's primary has a slow lumbering turret for it's ability. Can anyone say useless_ I like the idea of being able to sustain more damage, but not at the cost of being able to get up close and personal with my shotty...

Edited by hitabowl, November 09 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#62 killyg

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Posted November 09 2012 - 05:40 PM

View PostDarkPulse, on November 09 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Translation: If you shoot someone in the head, they're not going to hear it until the sound wave would pass them.
The only time you'll hear it "at the same time" is if it's relatively close, i.e; a couple hundred yards out, but once you get into sniper rifles and their kilometer-plus ranges, you could well land the shot well before the target ever knows what hit them. womb mentioned lightning as an example, and we all know that one - we see the flash, and we can determine how far the bolt was from us by counting the delay, since sound travels a mile in about five seconds. The shorter the delay, the closer the strike to us, until it's essentially so close to us it's almost instantaneous.

One last post, if you guys still don't get it then I give up.
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notice in your own picture, the very first sonic boom is at the SAME place as the traveling object_  That's why someone getting shot hears the sonic boom at the SAME TIME.

this is not magic.  How do I know this_  Because I've tried it!  I stood down-range at a 600yds rifle lane and listened to 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm whiz TOWARDS me, not PAST me.  The bullet hit the dirt at the same time the sonic boom arrives in my ears.

Edited by killyg, November 09 2012 - 05:41 PM.


#63 PiVoR

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Posted November 09 2012 - 05:42 PM

i really love how topics like to derail in those forums..

Quote

This is coming from an experienced FPS player and one who LOVES shotguns in COD3. I know my shotguns.

yeah, everyone loves striker in mw3 :P

#64 hitabowl

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Posted November 09 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostPiVoR, on November 09 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

i really love how topics like to derail in those forums..

Quote

This is coming from an experienced FPS player and one who LOVES shotguns in COD3. I know my shotguns.

yeah, everyone loves striker in mw3 :P

It's my baby. Fav has to be KSG-12 tho, Striker is just too easy. Which is pretty damn similar to the Flak Cannon in HAWKEN...
PS Meant MW3...let's just say it's a Friday night and I've indulged a little ;)

#65 DarkPulse

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Posted November 09 2012 - 06:21 PM

View Postkillyg, on November 09 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

One last post, if you guys still don't get it then I give up.
Posted Image

notice in your own picture, the very first sonic boom is at the SAME place as the traveling object_  That's why someone getting shot hears the sonic boom at the SAME TIME.

this is not magic.  How do I know this_  Because I've tried it!  I stood down-range at a 600yds rifle lane and listened to 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm whiz TOWARDS me, not PAST me.  The bullet hit the dirt at the same time the sonic boom arrives in my ears.
But notice in your picture, there is no immediate air compression in front of the bullet - yet.

The reason is simple - the bullet has yet to arrive; therefore it has not pushed the air out of the way. The only way for it to begin pushing air out of the way, and do a sonic boom, is obviously for it to travel that distance.

You will hear the crack of the sound barrier being broken before the report of the gun, definitely, but the simple fact is that by the time you hear the crack, the bullet is already at you - but it will reach its target before your brain processes the sound, due to the fact that the neural pathways are also limited in speed (something like approximately 250 miles per hour, I think, but don't quote me on that). This, of course, means that for your body to react, your brain must send signals to your muscles, which then contract, and instill a fight-or-flight response and put your body under stress.

So while it's possible - in theory - to maybe hear the compression of air, you're not hearing the sonic boom (which is what you're arguing) until after the bullet has effectively passed you slightly, depending on your distance from the bullet (the closer it is to you, the quicker the boom reaches you, naturally). This means if your head was the actual target, if you heard it, you've already been shot in the head, because we can assume even if you did hear the air compressing, there is no way reaction times would allow you to dodge the bullet, obviously - not when that 5.56x45mm NATO round travels at over 900 meters a second. If you were standing 600 meters away from where it was shot, but only perhaps a couple dozen feet away from the target, then the effect is nearly instantaneous - the bullet passes you 2/3 of a second after it was actually fired; the sonic boom would hit your ears perhaps some milliseconds later. Now, if you were 600 meters away and, say, 300 meters wide from the target, you'd get a definite lagtime on hearing the shot compared to your visual acquisition of the shot hitting, and obviously you'd never hear the bullet whizzing at all, as the sonic boom would drown out the small bullet whizz with ease.

Lastly, the sonic boom isn't at the tip of the bullet - it is, again, at the wake of the bullet. If you're arguing air compression, you're absolutely correct that it would precede the bullet (although whether you'd hear it considering the speed it's traveling compared to the sonic boom is another thing entirely, as I said). The sonic boom, however, follows the wake of the object pushing with enough force to break sound; the sound then travels omnidirectionally. If you're a couple dozen feet away, it's effectively instantaneous.  If you're about 350 meters away, you'll see it about a second before you hear it.

Either way, PiVoR is right - this is all way off-topic. The only way we'll really know is if we get shot in the head, and I'm not keen to find out what that's like. :P

To get back on-topic, essentially, I'm fine with, if need be, a slightly clearer notice Sharpshooters are out and about. However, lighting them up on Radar, or giving auditory warnings past that every time they fire a shot, and expecting the sound to travel long distances is probably a bit too much. The game isn't exactly ultra-realistic (not until we build our own mechs, anyway!) so let's not get swamped in the semantics of realism.
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#66 Yourgrandma

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Posted November 09 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'm highly in favor of a projectile that i can actually dodge even if the sharpshooter gets a even greater boost in damage. Hit scan on a high powered weapon is just much too easy for anyone to get. DPS doesn't mean fuzzy bunny either because with other weapons you would have to maintain 100% accuracy and land every shot while maintaining line of sight to have a directly comparable DPS.

#67 Rooslin

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Posted November 09 2012 - 10:09 PM

my favourite way of noticing sharpshooters are out and about i hold down the tab button and look at the enemy teams mechs then i play accordingly (i dont change my tactics at all ;))

#68 Gestankfaust

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Posted November 09 2012 - 10:33 PM

As a newb....this is my favorite mech. I do my best with it. Not sure what you people see is wrong other than knowing too much from previous builds....which we all know changes from alpha to beta to lauunch

#69 Pursang

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Posted November 09 2012 - 11:00 PM

View PostYourgrandma, on November 09 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

I'm highly in favor of a projectile that i can actually dodge even if the sharpshooter gets a even greater boost in damage. Hit scan on a high powered weapon is just much too easy for anyone to get. DPS doesn't mean fuzzy bunny either because with other weapons you would have to maintain 100% accuracy and land every shot while maintaining line of sight to have a directly comparable DPS.

You've conveniently forgotten the fact that the sabot rifle has a ridiculously long reload time, on top of the fact that accuracy is about nil unless you're zoomed in.
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#70 Juodvarnis

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Posted November 09 2012 - 11:45 PM

I just love how this thread went from "Brawlers are useless"  to "Sharpshooters are op" to "Bullets are faster than sound"

:lol:
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*sigh*




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