181 replies to this topic

[Apoteoza]

Playing as a human makes you feel that mech is something bigger and better than you. I like the idea the it could be possible to ejcet to repair your own mech.  Or to bail from the dying robot but... if you make possible to run at every posssible situation people will overuse this prospect.  So my idea is:
In a cockpit you have the idnicator LIFE or if not then  just 2 lamps RED and green....
green shows you can go out and it means you have about 40-100% life....
if your life bar goes under 40% you cant bail....

But on the other hand playing as a human on such big maps would be long and non proftiable. If you could get a car from the road or you could be picked up by the team mate and bring back to the main base on his shoulder. with bazooka
Anyway...this is not necessary for now.

[MadMike]

They worked so hard making a beautiful first person camera for the cockpits in this game, I really don't want it ruined with some awkward on foot view whether it's 1st or 3rd person view. I think its extra work that they don't need to dwell on and that this game is solely mechs at its core.

[Raex]

There are lots of things that out of mech players could do.

-Build repair beacons.
-Hack relay towers or objective items
-Steal and repair broken down mechs or map based turrets.
-Infiltrate enemy bases and operate machinery of non-mech variety.

This is a whole other element of game play entirely and most likely doesn't fit into the developers plans, but it would still be cool.

[OhBlindOne]

It would be interesting, actually pretty sweet but I would hate it if they made it a way to fight because that would totally take away from the point of the game.

[LightWolf]

Apoteoza, on September 08 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Playing as a human makes you feel that mech is something bigger and better than you. I like the idea the it could be possible to ejcet to repair your own mech.  Or to bail from the dying robot but... if you make possible to run at every posssible situation people will overuse this prospect.... But on the other hand playing as a human on such big maps would be long and non proftiable. If you could get a car from the road or you could be picked up by the team mate and bring back to the main base on his shoulder. with bazooka
Anyway...this is not necessary for now.

Exactly.  It would really depend on the gametype variants offered but for the most part I see no direct benefit.  Maybe if there are spare mechs scattered (read hidden) throughout the map then that could be an incentive to eject and try to explore.  However that would be at the expense of getting off one last kill, and/or getting blown into space by an opposing mech.  I think that if you shift the focus to things other than fighting, the game loses its sense of purpose.  Too much is not always a good thing.

[OsirisFox]

Being outside of the mech only to goof around after being destroyed is ok but other than that, I think it is a terrible idea. War-Hawk for the PS3 was a FANTASTIC GAME.... when you were inside a plane (what the game was built around) but the ground combat was a joke. Mechanics for tanks and on-foot combat was a joke. Even if the controls were refined it would still be a let down because nothing even came close to the rush you felt from flying in the sky. I say stick to mech only play. Anything on foot would feel boring and slow in comparison.

Fox

[Raex]

OsirisFox, on September 18 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Being outside of the mech only to goof around after being destroyed is ok but other than that, I think it is a terrible idea. War-Hawk for the PS3 was a FANTASTIC GAME.... when you were inside a plane (what the game was built around) but the ground combat was a joke. Mechanics for tanks and on-foot combat was a joke. Even if the controls were refined it would still be a let down because nothing even came close to the rush you felt from flying in the sky. I say stick to mech only play. Anything on foot would feel boring and slow in comparison.

Fox

I actually really dug that games ground combat. For what it is, it's pretty fun.

For this game i'm sure the element of group infantry combat would be so after thought that it wouldn't come close to warhawk.

A human running around really only needs to be able to shoot a gun in a direction 1st person
Shoot a dart or beacon at something
Hack a console
Send a grappling hook to climb into another mech

[Phobotech]

Alright, check this out... Chromehounds AND Armored Core 5 had a post-mech destruction thing where the pilot can roam about on the ground. In both instances, they're armed with a machine gun that does NOTHING against a mech...the pilot can't impact the environment, their team, or the enemy in any way, shape, or form.

^ That sucks, btw.

I don't know why From Software thought it was a good idea to give the player potential to be boots on the ground, and then make them completely pointless.

Now, Front Mission Evolved gave the pilots weaponry...but they were almost so effective that it defeated the purpose of even having a mech...that sucks too! It's one thing to have giant robots so powerful that you're reminded of how meak and vulnerable you are on the outside of one....but it's an entirely other to make the mechs seem like impractically big targets to shoot from a tiny perspective that can hide everywhere. There needs to be a balance.

Recently, Namdo-Bamcai (<-- intentional) released a free downloadable game in their Japanese Playstation store, Mobile Suit Gundam: Battle Operations. I bring it up because I believe it came the closest to getting the whole "relationship between the mech and pilot" thing right, even if it's STILL a little off. Y'see, the whole game is played on an earth setting, but the pilot's are all decked out in space suits, with dainty little space jetbacks that would work well in a Zero-G environment, but for some reason are able to propell themselves just fine in Earth's gravity.

What I would like to see from Hawken is pilot gear that would make sense for the environment. And hell, if it could be customizable, that would be even better.

What I DID like from MS Gundam: Battle Op, is the entire purpose of the pilot outside of the mech were to
A) Capture spawn points
Repairing your own Mobile Suit
C) Planting bombs on an enemy base

Other than that, you were armed with a machine gun that barely did the job for anti-infantry, and a single-shot bazooka that was meant for anti-vehicles, but is only used as an instant means to dealing with anti-infantry. They're also equipped with a flash bomb that takes forever to launch, and when it explodes, only stuns a mobile suit for a hilariously brief amount of time before the mech you flash-bombed seeks you out and kills you for the mild inconvenience...and of course, a repair gun.

If spawn points in a conquest setting exists in Hawken, it would be an interesting moment of vulnerability if there was an opportunity for the pilot to exit his mech for the sole purpose of giving his team a necessary tactical advantage. To repair systems, weapon platforms, or even to sabotage their enemies so they can't do the same. What I would like to see are sneaky things....booby-traps, setting up sensor devices that can taddle-tell on enemy movements, and PLAUSIBLE manueverability on the ground.

What I mean by plausible is like, in Chromehounds, they moved like fuzzy bunny. The map was so massive, it took all match for the mechs to get from one end to the other...you weren't going anywhere SOON on foot. In Armored Core 5, they even gave the pilots these RIDICULOUSLY huge jetpacks, and they did nothing but save the animators from animating a walk-cycle...not even kidding, the pilots were offensively slow and useless. In Gundam Battle: Operations, the troops walked plausibly, but by having them haul fuzzy bunny in these dainty little space jet-packs on earth's gravity BROKE the plausibility...and the engines would overheat quickly anyway, so it wasn't even conveniently implausible. To fix this, they added vehicles like tanks, hover-bikes, and more tanks. Would Hawken necessitate vehicles that aren't mechs into their gameplay_ Perhaps Jeeps/Humvee styles four-wheelers_ Perhaps Hover Bikes_ Will there be jetpacks_ Will they be big with a lot of pull or will they be dainty and weak_

Pilot's on the ground need to have a purpose. Supporting the overall objective player's are faced, not complicating or detracting from it.

[FirstSgtDan]

It would realy be neat but I'm almost sure it would be a pain for the developers to implement.

[ichi]

Do it for repairing. When I first plopped down to repair, I expected to see the pilot get out and start going to town with some kind of laser drill. Do it.

[_MadStyle_]

Well, I see it this way, A lot of people say it has no use gameplay wise, think about it, being able jump out of your mech and roam around and hijack your enemy's mech or something sounds like a badass aspect to do, lol.

Edited by _MadStyle_, September 21 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[Prospect]

that would be amazing , maybe even have a self destruct button so you can leave the mech and have it take out some weak foes , even tho you'll be vulnerable and end up dead

[rockanon]

Here's some benefits to being able to exit a mech:

1. snipers who "headshot" mechs kill the pilot but leave the mech available to take-over (with a self-destruct timer on it).

- if you want to try someone else's loadout (which plenty of other games allow) this would be an option for that.

2. offense/defense - exit a mech and enter a very strong defensive turret (to protect a flag or cap point).

- trade-off leaves your mech vulnerable.

3. Game could feature additional traps or abilities that can only be activated if you hop out of your mech and plant bombs / tripwires / activate a map-based feature.


Here's some problems with exiting a mech:

1. completely vulnerable to other mechs.
2. this could make the objectives that are "exited-pilot" heavy feel cumbersome or more time-consuming than necessary.
3. could feel gimmocky.
4. if your mech is destroyed while you're outside of your mech, how do you get back to base_ (count-down timer with base teleport_ just run back_ have to get killed_)
5. walking pilot (or even jetpacks) would seem to have a speed disadvantage to giant mechs with rocket boosters. (maybe this is overcome by making the jetpacks very fast with more fuel than a giant, heavy mech_)

Edited by rockanon, September 22 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[FirstSgtDan]

rockanon, on September 22 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Here's some benefits to being able to exit a mech:

1. snipers who "headshot" mechs kill the pilot but leave the mech available to take-over (with a self-destruct timer on it).

- if you want to try someone else's loadout (which plenty of other games allow) this would be an option for that.

2. offense/defense - exit a mech and enter a very strong defensive turret (to protect a flag or cap point).

- trade-off leaves your mech vulnerable.

3. Game could feature additional traps or abilities that can only be activated if you hop out of your mech and plant bombs / tripwires / activate a map-based feature.


Here's some problems with exiting a mech:

1. completely vulnerable to other mechs.
2. this could make the objectives that are "exited-pilot" heavy feel cumbersome or more time-consuming than necessary.
3. could feel gimmocky.
4. if your mech is destroyed while you're outside of your mech, how do you get back to base_ (count-down timer with base teleport_ just run back_ have to get killed_)
5. walking pilot (or even jetpacks) would seem to have a speed disadvantage to giant mechs with rocket boosters. (maybe this is overcome by making the jetpacks very fast with more fuel than a giant, heavy mech_)

A cockpit-shot would utterly destroy everything in the cockpit, not only kill the pilot... Destroying the cockpit would pretty much destroy the ability to pilot it unless some kind of repair is done.

I don't know if Hawken is supposed to be a game about quick matches and lots of encounters with the enemy or if it's about strategy, big maps and stuff. But If the case is the early one, then playing with humans would kind of ruin the gameplay, unless humans can be easily tracked down by mechs.

As for jetpacks... c'mom seriously_ If you lose your mech, you're dead already.

Also, you're forgetting about what humans x humans battles would be...
Implementing this would be like developing a new game inside this one. Maybe if people don't actually control the humans, there could be some kind of probability system or something that could work for simulating human x human combat, making it faster.

[Regabond]

I would love to see people implemented as a spectator system. They would not affect the game in any way except visually while mechs are fighting they may see some people jumping around watching the fights unfold. That or little camera drones.

[Hel]

Not sure getting out of you mech during combat, but some sort of a hub area where pilots can gather would be pretty cool. It could have shops and action houses, hang out with others, have 1v1 duels, things like that.

[Phobotech]

(^in response to Hel)

Sort of like Space Cowboy Online (Now "Ace Online")

Talk about a potentially awesome idea that overall felt incredibly empty as you were doing it.

The whole game revolved around kind of Starfox-like gameplay...but when you were docked at major cities, you shopped, crafted, and serviced your ship in an avatar navigated realm...but it was the bare necessities of such...and I mean, like, the bare necessities.

http://img400.images...6/cidade5uw.jpg

Edited by Phobotech, September 23 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[Lightning_Saber]

all i need to say is mech warrior living legends.... for those of you who played it you know where im going with this.... for those of you who dont and think its a good idea go play that game for a day or 2 and then you will realize why this is a terrible idea

[vai]

If they did decide to make it a part of the game, I would have to say at least wait till a much later date.  Then perhaps develop a character lounge or something_  Where people can buy and sell / trade parts or w.e_  Open private chat rooms etc_  idk  Just a suggestion, but really, I don't care either way if this is implemented or not.

[Crow]

God no. It would NEVER work well. Please no.

OUTSIDE of combat though, thats a different story. Like if you were in a sci-fi metropolis where you buy and sell stuff, etc. MAYBE but thats ONLY if they implement some sort of PVE open world, and I highly doubt that would work very well.

If they made it so that there isn't really a Pilot but rather YOU ARE the mech itself (like you're Wall-E, a Transformer or Glados or something), maybe then_ Just spouting random ideas.

Edited by Crow, September 26 2012 - 08:11 PM.