181 replies to this topic

[FASA Corp.se]

I don't think getting in and out of a Mech has ever been an important part of a Mech game, at least none of the ones I have played...
In any case I'm going by BattleTech, and in that universe these would be closer to Elementals than actual Mechs.
I also think that hopping out to swap into a different Mech for a given situation just makes this into another Modern Warfare. The meat and potatoes of this game I would hope would be building one well rounded Mech that works for you in most situations. If we want to look at this more realistically, a pilot isn't going to have a half dozen Mechs to choose from during combat. You'd choose your Mech based on the mission at hand and would have to adapt during a match to different challenges. If I could just look and see what the other team is using and pick a different Mech at respawn, or hop out and change my Mech and load out... Wheres the challenge in that_

[D20Face]

PiGPEN said:

It's not a space game if....well actually anything can be a space game since that's not specific enough. In fact HAWKEN could be a space game, just change the skybox to a view of the milky way and say it takes place on an asteroid or something.

I meant spaceship combat like Eve Online. Sorry if I was unclear.

PiGPEN said:

Hopping in and out of mechs is a long used feature that sets mecha games apart from their run'n'gun and flight sim counterparts.

I don't remember ever getting out of my mech in MechWarrior.

If that's not a mech video game then I don't know what is.

PiGPEN said:

And an important part of Mech games has been getting out of the mech ever since 70s/80s mech anime made it a critical part of their action sequences. And it's a critical part of differentiating it from other similar games since running/flying and shooting isn't all that unique in videogames.

Well there you have it, I hate most mech anime.
When mechs become more like giant bodies and less like giant mechanical beasts with legs then I start losing interest.

FASA Corp.se said:

BattleTech

The mech game for real men.

[PiGPEN]

FASA Corp.se said:

I don't think getting in and out of a Mech has ever been an important part of a Mech game, at least none of the ones I have played...
In any case I'm going by BattleTech

The Battletech/Mechwarrior series all uphold the tradition of originally being a Mech reskin of the modelpainting combat-rpg genre of boardgames. Y'know... for people who dont like orcs.
Although even some of the Mechwarrior videogames had ejecting (Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries) it just didnt play into the combat, it was for the RPG building management stuff.

FASA Corp.se said:

If we want to look at this more realistically, a pilot isn't going to have a half dozen Mechs to choose from during combat. You'd choose your Mech based on the mission at hand and would have to adapt during a match to different challenges. If I could just look and see what the other team is using and pick a different Mech at respawn, or hop out and change my Mech and load out... Wheres the challenge in that_

You're forgetting that Hawken is a team shooter. Being able to have a roster to choose from is a given because unlike the single/two player affairs you're used to, you wont have control of who's using what. Gotta keep things flexible for multiplayer.

[D20Face]

PiGPEN said:

The Battletech/Mechwarrior series all uphold the tradition of originally being a Mech reskin of the modelpainting combat-rpg genre of boardgames. Y'know... for people who dont like orcs.

I love how you elevate Mech games to some god-tier of genres, then choose to belittle the quintessential mech game.

Battletech is to mech games what D&D is to rpgs.

[PiGPEN]

Arseface said:

I love how you elevate Mech games to some god-tier of genres,

Never did that. I can only think of a handful that are even decent.

Arseface said:

then choose to belittle the quintessential mech game.
Battletech is to mech games what D&D is to rpgs.

Gameplay-wise, original Battletech is a clone of other games of the time. It's not that far off from combat focused D&D either.
And i find your manga/anime hate kind of disgusting when that's the origin of the genre, Battletech especially. Battletech's mecha veneer wouldn't exist without ripping off Macross and heavily sampling the mecha culture Japan had been popularizing for a good 20+ years beforehand.

[NightSnowCrow]

I was going to make an topic on this till I found it. I think theres considerable value in being able to exit the mechs BUT to make sure that the mech is the fundamental device in the game I would only give the pilot a hand gun of some sort. hand guns DO NOT DAMAGE MECHS. only other  pilots.  The ONLY reason for getting an pilot out of the cockpit would be to repair things, and to do things mechs cant do.  
for example:::
Hacking as just as the pilot (anything, turrets, bridges, tunnels, doors, radars, bases, scramblers, etc...)
Repair anything...
Sabotage  anything...
Capture the Flag..._
Completing objectives All of them perhaps

I feel like humans would easy get torn to pieces outside of their said mechs, hacking/repairing/sabotage would need to be a risk worth taking. adding an whole new strategic sense with teams.

If done right it could make the game, if wrong... ruin it.

[Naraklok]

How about getting into the mech at the beginning of the game_

Spawning outside of the mech. When the game starts you can enter the cockpit.

[PiGPEN]

NightSnowCrow said:

Hacking as just as the pilot (anything, turrets, bridges, tunnels, doors, radars, bases, scramblers, etc...)
Repair anything...
Sabotage  anything...
Capture the Flag..._
Completing objectives All of them perhaps

Even without this stuff and without a weapon for the human it would open all sorts of strategic opportunities just being able to leave vacant mechs.
People against it seem to think we want cowaduty shoved into the game.

[D20Face]

PiGPEN said:

People against it seem to think we want cowaduty shoved into the game.

People against it want some mech versus mech combat.

I don't want to shoot at tiny baby men, I want to shoot at mechs. People getting out of their mechs takes away from the metal monsters I get to shoot at.

I never asked to get out of my truck in Twisted Metal:Black, why would I want to get out of my mech here_ MW:O has the right idea. No getting out of the cockpit under any conditions. The game is about mechs, not men.

[Naraklok]

It could be cool in a sense; but overall probably won't work out very well in the end and will never be in-game.

[PiGPEN]

Arseface said:

I don't want to shoot at tiny baby men, I want to shoot at mechs. People getting out of their mechs takes away from the metal monsters I get to shoot at.

I think you're assuming that leaving your mech would be an acceptable escape ability or that it would be difficult/annoying to kill a person because theyre small. Getting out of your mech mid-firefight should obviously be instant death. And a human should be as easy to target as anything else. The actual chances to shoot humans would be minimal just because no one is going to leave themselves open readily like that...and it's better to "go down with the ship" then to leave it for your enemies to take.
Only NightSnowCrow's suggestions of human-required objectives would be something that leaves someone open regularly... but in gameplay terms that would make that team concentrate all their effort into protecting that person. It's good stuff.

[Siilk]

Every game, in which player-controlled foot soldiers are present alongside the "bigger assets", like tanks or mechs, the latter are usually outnumbered(and often almost overpowered) by the former(BF2142, ETQW, Crysis wars etc etc). This is done to make a game enjoyable for infantry players but it shifts focus from non-infantry gameplay. In vehicle- or mech-centred game(which hawken is), such shift would be undesirable.

If we want out-of-mech gameplay to be anything more than the simulator of "OH FUCK MECH SAW ME GOTTA RUN AND HIDE OF FUCK OH FUCK OH SHIT FUCK *respawn*", mech vs infantry combat have to be balanced in terms of risk for a mech to attack a same-priced platoon of infantry. And, as 1 vs 1 is certainly not an option here, we have to have lots and lots of foot soldier players vs a handful of mechs to balance things out, which is not really the way I think hawken should be played. It is a mech game most of us want, not mixed arms game, infantry combat hardly has a place in it.

As for non-combat appliance for infantry, like capturing or repairing something, it, for the gameplay purposes, could be pretty much summed up as "being extremely vulnerable for XX seconds", which is much easier to implement as "mech is stationary and powered down, countdown to complete action XXX in progress". Don't forget, even though "getting out and making repairs/capping a point" is somehow cooler, it would require a lot of dev team efforts to implement such, almost entirely cosmetic, feature.

In other words, I think OP suggestion is rather fun but non-practical and hardly worth the efforts to implement it.

[The_Silencer]

The more I think on this concept, the more I think that this is a very delicate. As delicate as the flesh of a pilot's body out there as he gets exposed to a single big and fat bullet fired from any enemy mech around...

I'm having second thougths on this idea.

[SmellyFingers]

maybe spectator mode would allow you to roam invisibly in a jetpack suit or something.
i disliked mechwarrior 2's battlesuits or detonation packs on foot. i think if you can get outside your mech, it should not be for combat purposes.

[Gen13]

I think they just need another part of the game to be more as a humanoid in the world.
Have the humanoid player doing whatever. There are various ranks to military and as Mech Piots there  would be.

BUT what if the pilots were just average joes in the world doing their boring everyday job_ Garbage collector, Wall Street , Lawyers, Doctors, Mom's, Dad's, Students, etc. Average people that take on the pilot role of the Mech and become a part of the world.

Might make for an expansion...the world outside the Mech. Who are these people inside the Mech and how did they actually get there.

[Nitris]

^^ Live action teaser trailer.

According to the Twitch TV @ E3 interviews with various people involved in the game, the live action thingy will be about that; "Who are these people piloting these mechs_" "Why are they fighting_" Etc.

[Wr0ngingTh3D3ad]

but you don't see the potential for this, you create whole different game types with this. like a juggernaut type game where one person is randomly selected to be in a mech and the rest of the players on the ground have to take him out, and whoever kills him is the next mech. also whoever has played the mechassault series knows about this, why not forget the jet pack and have little power armor type suits that, though much weaker, still have the capability to take down a mech. then you cannot only have customisable mechs, but customisable characters! being on the ground will give a whole other perspective of the combat and the landscape. so give it a shot, and you can make this game a whole lot cooler than it already is!!!!!!!!!

[The_Silencer]

If you want to be outside of your mech and I can see you on radar into my mech then.. get ready, dude.

[ENGINE-O]

I was about to join this thread and argue some points for the addition of leaving your mech but it seems pigpen has done everything for me. I agree with pretty much everything he said. This feature can add so much depth to the game play and it would be a complete waste if it wasn't implemented. It allows the player to feel like they are actually piloting the mech and not merely playing as it. Considering it seems the team has already put some work into the feature it would truly be a waste. It shows the team has thought about it the way I do. Most mech games just translate to a generic fps with robot skins. A feature like this would differentiate hawken from the others. It could have its own game mode attributed to it. I think so many games now are getting stale because they just try to rehash what has worked before and I believe if that if that is the mindset you have going in to creating a game you might as well not make it at all. The sad part is that is actually what sells if you take a look at games like call of duty. All I have to say to the hawken team is don't fall for the pressure put on these people that don't want change. This feature has the ability to make hawken stand out more from other fps/mechgames. Please don't be afraid to add it


Allowing the player to leave the cockpit allows for so many unique game modes where you will have to dismount to play the objective. It generally support team play as you will require your team to defend you while you are vulnerable. In addition, it will add fun moments such as hijacking suits. If this feature is implemented correctly it can add a lot more depth and fun to the game play. People that say otherwise haven't experienced seeing huge mechs fly by as they are on foot. And if anyone is truly against the feature there could always be an option to play matches without it. This feature might
e pointless for modes like tdm. I agree on that point but for objective game modes this feature will be a well welcomed addition that adds more depth and team play. Some people nowadays have too short of an attention span to enjoy such intricacies in a
Game that looks like an fps. Now don't get discouraged by that because there are plenty that do. Don't make hawken a COD with mechs. Make it something new and refreshing. I can see the amount of work the team put into the game so far to provide a truly special experience. The fact that you were able to provide that screenshot of the dismounted player shows you care. Take the little extra time to add something that has the potential create a whole different experience in hawken.

[Mech Mechanic]

Unrealistic., useless for game play, out of scope with the intended purpose of the game.

1. If you go out as a human you end up being a wondering ant waiting to be flattened or get wholes with 40 MM guns.

2. Modeling, animating, rigging, polygon modeling and detailing makes the implementation impossible. Your team only have 9 individuals.

You have to model the interior and the exterior.
Coordinate the animation and control handling.
Implement the complexity of the camera view and control movement making the head view independent of the mech movement.
A lot of assets, animations, sound files, detection should be added. The work is just too much for the team.

3. Game play, coordination and interactivity between the human and the mech.


Would be great to have this, realistically, it doesn't fit on Adhesive's plans.