64 replies to this topic

[Hipnox]

Wouldn't it be cool if instead of some measly damage reduction and some "magical" health regeneration, turret mode would actually deploy a big support weapon_

something like:



Instead of having some lame, very minor ability like "less mobility reduction" or "health regen" as the defining ability of each C mech, you could make it so that each individual C chassis has a unique, mech defining Ordnance weapon that plays to the style of the mech.

When deployed you get damage reduction and your primary weapon is overridden by the Ordnance weapon. All in exchange for mobility and the ability to fix yourself. Sounds like a fair trade.

Ej:

Rocketeer would have some form of bigger, more powerful rocket launcer, giving him the ability to fire Hellfire rockets (RMB) and the powerful rocket launcer (LMB) all while using the same targeting ability (MMB)

Brawler could have a short range mortar or cannon, similar to the grenade launcher, except that it detonates on impact.

etc..


It would certainly make Turret mode a much more interesting mechanic

[defekt]

C-class special abilities are pretty redundant so anything that makes them worth while I'll probably support, and the idea of a 'siege mode'-only weapon has merit IMO.  For a game that is so heavily reliant on being able to move -- any stationary target is a dead stationary target if it isn't packing a strong hitscan weapon -- I really don't see much attracting players to willingly sacrificing what little mobility they have for anything short of near invulnerability from some angles.

The Brawler for example, is all about staying mobile; the moment you stop you’re dead.  I would like to see those armoured baffles semi-deployable as a form of riot shield that bestows 30% damage mitigation from the forward arc at the cost of cockpit visibility, 50% dash distance and turn speed (no general speed reduction – makes no sense to slow it down if it can move normally carrying the same weight in ‘walk’ mode).

[Juodvarnis]

Anything is better than what we have now.

[Natster]

I agree with juo, the heavy mechs need serious upgrading. Even when in turret mode I take a few middles from an assault and I'm done. A heavy mech in turret mode should be able to take a few close range hellfire rockets . And still be somewhat alive lol. And the whole gun thing sounds good

[Frenotx]

Sounds like a cool idea. Adding another gun might complicate things a lot both from a game balance standpoint, and a modeling standpoint. What if perhaps instead of a third unique weapon, the primary weapon weapon were to get a different firing mode. Maybe for the EOC you could get automatic fire, the HEAT could get drastically reduced charge time, etc.

[Manoloco]

Frenotx has a good idea, increasing weapon stats would be reasonable, like firing rate or dps or like he mentioned less overheat

[Lord_Trent_Kellan]

Either idea works, but in practice, I bet Frenotx's idea will be easier to implement and more enjoyable.

SOMETHING better for the turret mode is NEEDED though.

As of right now I can't tell you how many times a C-Class mech tries to turret up and I'm just like: 'Ahaha!  Thank you. Free kill. '

Edited by Lord_Trent_Kellan, November 12 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[defekt]

I 'major' in Infiltrator and Brawler so I've seen these machines perform from both sides of the fence.  (I know I’m far from unique in this regard, nevertheless, I do feel marginally qualified to comment.)  

Of the four available function modes available to the C-class mechs -- Brawler Standing, Brawler Turret, Rocketeer Standing, Rocketeer Turret -- only the Brawler Standing mode is viable, and this is reflected in what I’ve seen being played throughout this beta.  My Brawler, for example, comes with evolutionary (not-so-)vestigial limbs that are neither use nor ornament, and it is currently effectively without a special ability as a direct result.  Presently, these vestigial limbs only serve to present a much larger target for my Infiltrator to blow the snot out of (which happens 4 times out of 5 whenever I encounter a C-class in my Infiltrator); I’ve not yet lost a battle against a turreted C-class in my OPfiltrator.  Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

I am now of the opinion that almost no amount of damage mitigation is worth the loss of all effective mobility, except in the event of the turreted C-class having access to a very high ROF hitscan weapon (e.g., Vulcan), or a fully front-loaded damage, high projectile speed weapon (e.g., HEAT).  Stationary mechs need to be able to land damage on an A-class that’s making good use of its mobility and cover, and presently that can only be accomplished with the aforementioned weapon types.  Even so, in the case of the Brawler, a stationary turret mode seems to be inconsistent with what the machine is good at: CQB.  Every other viable mech type has a special ability that compliments its strengths rather than compromise them.

It’s pretty clear to most that the C-class turret ability is a rather awkward bedfellow that needs to be reconsidered, but all I ask is that whatever solution is decided upon that it compliments rather than compromises the core function of each chassis.

[Hipnox]

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

I top scoreboards in DM-Sahara with the Rocketeer....

With that said, the concept of turret mode is one that never really looked good, even on paper. Sure, the idea of deploying some large, bulky shield on a mech sounds awesome, but when you start comparing it to everything you lose by using it, you soon realize the idea is flawed from the get go.

Let's see:


Turret mode Pros:

• Damage reduction
  
• Health regeneration OR (barely noticeable) faster turret movement

Turret mode Cons:

• Inability to roam the battlefield
  
• inability to give chase
  
• Inability to run away
  
• inability to dodge any from of incoming attack
  
• Inability to dash
  
• Inability to 'run'
  
• Inability to jump
  
• Inability to fix yourself
  
• Inability to deploy Sentrys
  
• Inability to use any form of items
  
• vulnerable and immobile for a couple of seconds being while switching modes

I think a big, unique gun can go a long way into making Turret Mode both viable and fun

[defekt]

Hipnox, on November 13 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

I top scoreboards in DM-Sahara with the Rocketeer....

Then you must have a singular talent.    I've not yet bumped into a dangerous Rocketeer, much less a turreted one.

Hipnox, on November 13 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I think a big, unique gun can go a long way into making Turret Mode both viable and fun

Depends what it is, as always.  Even so, a turret mode is never going to compliment what a Brawler does best.

[Frenotx]

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Hipnox, on November 13 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

I top scoreboards in DM-Sahara with the Rocketeer....

Then you must have a singular talent.    I've not yet bumped into a dangerous Rocketeer, much less a turreted one.

Hipnox, on November 13 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I think a big, unique gun can go a long way into making Turret Mode both viable and fun

Depends what it is, as always.  Even so, a turret mode is never going to compliment what a Brawler does best.

No, not singular. Just rare. I too wreck face with a rocketeer on a regular basis. Almost never use the ability, though.

[knorp]

defekt, on November 12 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

The Brawler for example, is all about staying mobile; the moment you stop you’re dead.  I would like to see those armoured baffles semi-deployable as a form of riot shield that bestows 30% damage mitigation from the forward arc at the cost of cockpit visibility, 50% dash distance and turn speed (no general speed reduction – makes no sense to slow it down if it can move normally carrying the same weight in ‘walk’ mode).

This !

As an hotfix, turret mode should just be granted PROPER damage reduction, like 90% ! 10 % of the currently received damage everytime you go "oh I'm bored, let's try it again, this time I have the perfect corner spot, I should be able to last at least 10...KABOOM" will still kill you in a matter of seconds. At least, make it so you can force an enemy to actually run, not just turn around you laughing and blasting this HUGE, STATIC target (yeah, you in turret mode). More damage reduction, and I could handle it, sitting at a safe distance; can't tell about the brawler which I haven't tried, but Rocketer is perfectly fine at range. Well, make turret mode kind of immune to sharpshooter fuzzy bunny less vulnerable to sniping, maybe...

Also like the supergun idea.

Edited by knorp, November 14 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[defekt]

knorp, on November 14 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

defekt, on November 12 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

The Brawler for example, is all about staying mobile; the moment you stop you’re dead.  I would like to see those armoured baffles semi-deployable as a form of riot shield that bestows 30% damage mitigation from the forward arc at the cost of cockpit visibility, 50% dash distance and turn speed (no general speed reduction – makes no sense to slow it down if it can move normally carrying the same weight in ‘walk’ mode).

This !

As an hotfix, turret mode should just be granted PROPER damage reduction, like 90% ! 10 % of the currently received damage everytime you go "oh I'm bored, let's try it again, this time I have the perfect corner spot, I should be able to last at least 10...KABOOM" will still kill you in a matter of seconds. At least, make it so you can force an enemy to actually run, not just turn around you laughing and blasting this HUGE, STATIC target (yeah, you in turret mode). More damage reduction, and I could handle it, sitting at a safe distance; can't tell about the brawler which I haven't tried, but Rocketer is perfectly fine at range. Well, make turret mode kind of immune to sharpshooter fuzzy bunny, maybe...

Also like the supergun idea.

I've gone off the idea of a riot shield now.  (Fickle_  Never.  I just know a better idea when I see it.  I'm not proud!)  I'd like to see a bulldozer blade charge instead!


. . . . . .[TTo\ \ \-
. . . . . .(_\   \  \ \\

[kormyen]

Frenotx, on November 12 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Sounds like a cool idea. Adding another gun might complicate things a lot both from a game balance standpoint, and a modeling standpoint. What if perhaps instead of a third unique weapon, the primary weapon weapon were to get a different firing mode. Maybe for the EOC you could get automatic fire, the HEAT could get drastically reduced charge time, etc.

+1

Lord_Trent_Kellan, on November 12 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

As of right now I can't tell you how many times a C-Class mech tries to turret up and I'm just like: 'Ahaha!  Thank you. Free kill. '

Yep! Bezerker spec-ed mobility vs a turret rocketeer is awesome > not fair.

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

Do correct me if I am wrong but "AsianJoyKiller" was a Rocketeer mainly_ (S)he was one of the best players (consistently most kills, hard to kill) I saw over the beta II period. I would love to know how (s)he managed it.
Other than him/her, as a mobility spec-ed Bezerker; yes 1v1 Rocketeers were an easy kill.

Edit: Considering his sig I'm guessing I was wrong. "C-Class Swagger Ballin' n' Brawlin'" xD
Edit2: AsianJoyKiller regarding using brawler turret mode ability "Oh hell no." http://community.pla...age__mode__show

Edited by kormyen, November 14 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Juodvarnis]

I want the bulldozer charge too!

Along with a loud metal scraping sound!

[3Jane]

Mechs abilities compliment the style of play of each or nullify the most obvious disadvantage of a chassis.

Assault has high heat weapons that require near constant fire, so it gets heat reduction. Plugging a weakness.
Infiltrator is already difficult to catch or follow, it has camo so it can become invisible as well. Complimenting.
Berserker doesn't have a huge punch of damage, gets an ability to spike its damage up compensating for its low hp.
etc etc

C mechs are already the slowest, least maneuverable and easiest targets to hit. So it gets what_ If you follow the rule in terms of the mechs abilities so far it should be a compensation for its slow speed and maneuvering or an extension of its main benefit, a huge health pool..

Either: Jet Boosters for forward thrust speed increase and an increase in dodge speed + recovery.
This has the potential to be really strong but can easily be controlled by editing the duration of the ability/cooldown.

Or: Mobile Repair Charge that repairs your total HP amount over time while on the move, say 10+ seconds, or Personal Shielding, Mobile Damage Mitigation etc etc

For every other class there are no disadvantages to using their ability. If you feel you might die there is absolutely no reason not to use the ability, but the same cannot be said for C Class.



P.s I really like the idea of a charge attack If anyone played Space Marine they will probably know the satisfaction of killing someone with only body charges hahaha. True humiliation.

Edited by 3Jane, November 14 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

kormyen, on November 14 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

defekt, on November 13 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Rocketeers are arguably the weakest chassis choice in the game (in any flavour of Alpha or Beta) and pose no threat whatsoever, be them standing or turreted, to any mech chassis that I’ve rolled; consequently, Rocketeers are rarer than Pope sh_t.

Do correct me if I am wrong but "AsianJoyKiller" was a Rocketeer mainly_ (S)he was one of the best players (consistently most kills, hard to kill) I saw over the beta II period. I would love to know how (s)he managed it.
Other than him/her, as a mobility spec-ed Bezerker; yes 1v1 Rocketeers were an easy kill.

Edit: Considering his sig I'm guessing I was wrong. "C-Class Swagger Ballin' n' Brawlin'" xD
Edit2: AsianJoyKiller regarding using brawler turret mode ability "Oh hell no." http://community.pla...age__mode__show

I did play a fair amount of Rocketeer during CBE2, and last I checked mine was at about level 12 or so.
Despite the fact it has lock on missiles, the Rocketeer is actually probably one of the harder classes to use effectively. It requires good timing (especially if using the EOC), good positioning, and I find it's better if you play it as a support mech.
I think I recorded a few videos of me playing RT, I'll try to get them up.

[Gont]

Very good post, 3Jane.

I think that those shields that c-class shields should be deployed much faster than now. Movement speed penalty shouldn't be higher than 50%. They could have own health pool and get destroyed (or retracted) when sustaining enough damage. They could even obscure vision with their bulkiness, that would give a tanky feeling to those mechs.

[D20Face]

3Jane, on November 14 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

For every other class there are no disadvantages to using their ability. If you feel you might die there is absolutely no reason not to use the ability, but the same cannot be said for C Class.

And every other class has, at best, a 10% boost.

Turret modes gives you a wopping 35% damage reduction.

[defekt]

D20Face, on November 14 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

3Jane, on November 14 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

For every other class there are no disadvantages to using their ability. If you feel you might die there is absolutely no reason not to use the ability, but the same cannot be said for C Class.

And every other class has, at best, a 10% boost.

Turret modes gives you a wopping 35% damage reduction.

Ouch.  Non sequitur-licious, baby!