26 replies to this topic

[BluetoothBoy]

I've heard many of you want a railgun in this game. I wouldn't mind one as well. It would fit, too, as it's not hi-tech sci-fi, but something that could be made from random parts.
 
So I made this, a mock-up of what such a railgun could/would look like. This is probably not a complete model, as it is a tad lacking in detail (only an hour or so of work on it), and obviously it has not been textured in the slightest.
 







Update [4/22/15]:

Adding the actual rails and the carriage. Still working on the loading mechanism at the back of the carriage.

 
 
Details:
 
Name: HVR (High-Velocity Railgun) Samson [Primary Weapon]
RoF: 0.75/sec
Heat: 22
DPS: 60
 
Firing modes:
There would be two firing modes on this gun. Basically, the difference between them is different ammunition types.
 
Ammo Type I: Scrap
This ammo type would be (5) small-ish chunks of metal flung out at high velocity at 17 damage each. There would be some spread, but it would be much narrower than that of the Flak Cannon's. However, the falloff of this weapon's range is fairly large, due to the non-aerodynamic nature of the ammo type. This would be for close and mid-range combat.
 
Ammo Type II: Bolt
This ammo type would consist of a single sharpened metal bolt that results in 75 damage, 10 less than the Scrap ammo at maximum effectiveness. This ammo type would be for long-range combat, and would have no noticeable falloff due to the extreme velocity and aerodynamics of the piece. Unlike the other high-powered long range weapons in the game, this one would have no scoped mode.
 
Heat:
Why such a low heat, you ask? To compensate for the low DPS - as a primary weapon on a likely offensive mech, 60 DPS isn't too terribly high. And it only makes sense - a railgun has very low heat buildup, as there are no explosions and very little friction. The only heat would be due to the ammo loading mechanisms and the heat buildup of the air due to the rapid acceleration of the projectiles.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? Fire away, pilots!

Edited by BluetoothBoy, 22 April 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Trigary]

I can't model, so I don't know how much time you put in it, but I respect everything like this. Personally, I don't really see the point of a railgun.

2 firing modes for a primary would be a new thing into the game, unless you make it a "charge up" thing (I don't know how to call it, it can be done with EOC, T34, Breacher, etc.), but then the fire rate would be very low.

[BluetoothBoy]

I can't model, so I don't know how much time you put in it, but I respect everything like this. Personally, I don't really see the point of a railgun.

2 firing modes for a primary would be a new thing into the game, unless you make it a "charge up" thing (I don't know how to call it, it can be done with EOC, T34, Breacher, etc.), but then the fire rate would be very low.

The Breacher basically has two fire modes - yes, it is a charged vs uncharged shot, but when fully charged or uncharged, they are basically two different weapons. A charge would be unnecessary - charged shots are meant to give the player more control over their shot, not necessarily to slow them down. For that, a low RoF is just fine. You can't really "charge" a railgun - it just doesn't make sense within the scope of how one works. The DPS on this, with two firemodes, is fairly balanced, provided it is paired with an appropriate secondary. Of course, it would need a bit of adjustment - but that would only really be viable with some testing.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I feel like this concept is really too close to the existing Breacher, being a flak-mode-hitscan-mode weapon without the unique quality of penetrating objects.

 

What I feel would work better is replacing the flak mode with a semi-automatic, click-to-fire weapon that has a similar or marginally slower fire rate relative to the SA Hawkins with higher DPS at close ranges but much worse damage fall-off. At this point, we have a hitscan, semi-automatic, bursty, precision close-range weapon, sort of like a faster firing Slug Rifle with better performance at short ranges.

 

This would legitimately be something that Hawken does not already have, since SA Hawkins would perform better at range, the Hawkins RPR would be automatic and have a higher rate of fire, and the Slug Rifle would be outperformed by this hypothetical close-range, hitscan, paced weapon.

 

In ranged mode firing, I feel the weapon would need to differentiate itself from the Breacher while also compensating for its lack of ability to penetrate. E.g. no fall-off damage, thus is capable of doing a medium amount of damage consistently.

 

Then the problem comes that this new weapon, altogether, is basically a better Slug Rifle, which would require balancing by reducing the values of the weapon.

 

Altogether, I cannot say I like this weapon in its originally proposed form because it fits too close to the Breacher, but even with these proposed changes that I suggested, I feel that it runs too close to simply being yet another example of redundancy in Hawken.

 

---

 

I like your model. However, I would like to recommend taking a leap of faith and suggesting something very out of the ordinary with this railgun's mechanics.

 

Here is another idea for the gameplay side: Firing the weapon normally provides what is basically a weaker Slug Rifle with no fall-off (e.g. constant 30-45 damage). Charging the weapon for some time (e.g. 2 sec) lets the player fire off a slightly stronger, no fall-off shot (e.g. 50-70 damage) that, upon landing on an enemy, slows its walking and air movement speeds by 50% for a short time (e.g. 2 sec).

 

Now you have a distinct theme of precision hitscan weapon that ignores fall-off damage but at the cost of having relatively low DPS. However, in addition, it can trade consistent DPS for a shot with a high reward effect unique to Hawken.

 

EDIT: It doesn't help that no fall-off damage is a mechanic that in itself is really strong.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 21 April 2015 - 09:24 PM.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Meh, I like the idea of a sniper primary.

Edited by Chaotic-Insurgent, 09 June 2015 - 02:14 AM.

[BariumBlue]

I've heard many of you want a railgun in this game. I wouldn't mind one as well. It would fit, too, as it's not hi-tech sci-fi, but something that could be made from random parts.
 

Heat:
A railgun has very low heat buildup, as there are no explosions and very little friction. The only heat would be due to the ammo loading mechanisms and the heat buildup of the air due to the rapid acceleration of the projectiles.

 

Funnily enough, the main problem with making real life railguns is the massive amounts of generated heat. It usually causes spot welding if you're not careful.

[Broham78]

Nice lookin gat Blue. 10/10 would rock it.

[BluetoothBoy]

Funnily enough, the main problem with making real life railguns is the massive amounts of generated heat. It usually causes spot welding if you're not careful.

Really? What generates the heat?

 

 

W^32 has a decent point.

My initial thoughts were 'a breacher without breaching'.

The concept of a fully auto rail-gun is intriguing, but would require such a massive amount of electricity in order to fire, it would be illogical to use it in this setting.

I propose a C-class mech receive this as it's secondary. By doing that, you have a new mech, with a different style of play, that will require some major practice to master.

I would almost be willing to call that C a G2 Predator. Almost.

Think about it, though. The main feature of the Breacher is it's charging ability. While the shots seem similar, they are fixed. If anything, this would play more like the Raider's secondary - switch and pull the trigger.

 

EDIT: Had to post that in a hurry. Now I can explain myself better.

 

While it IS true that this weapon in this configuration has similar firing styles to the Breacher, how it would feel to play these two is completely different. You move from focusing on charging to focusing on deciding which weapon choice you're going to use in the heat of battle. Another thing that I may not have made enough of a point on would also be just how much smaller the spread on the Scrap ammo would be as compared to the Breacher or other flak weapons. Don't think Flak cannon type spread, but more like a 5-7 degree cone (maybe less?) - I'm trying to balance (somewhat) realistic physics/shooting with gameplay. And the Scrap ammo would NOT be hitscan, but more like a longer range, narrower version of the Corsair's flak mode.

 

Also, I am not opposed to suggestions about gameplay - I'm completely open. I just feel sometimes I don't always explain myself fully, so I want everyone to have a clear picture of what it looks like. Also, I really don't think we can avoid having similar weapons as more are added to the game - with variety comes similarity. But keep in mind how much the little details affect the overall picture, and while the shooting might be similar to the Breacher from some viewpoints, the stats vary a bit more, and have a greater effect on gameplay in multiple areas. I guess all I'm really trying to say is look at this and it's gameplay from less of a comparative perspective and more of an objective, standalone one.

 

Planning on updating this when I get the chance. Stay tuned!

 

EDIT #2: Just thought of something else. Another reason this would/could differ greatly from the Breacher is the simple fact that this weapon has not yet been assigned a mech, and thus no ability either. And quite often the ability plays into the gameplay and usability of the mech's weaponry. For example, the Breacher is only on the Predator, whose ability is near-invisibility. Because of its sneakiness, this mech can sneak up on people and deliver a powerful blow to the rear with an uncharged shot. This would be far less likely to happen with a mech whose ability doesn't have to do with stealth. So before trashing an idea because of its similarities to another weapon, it would first be best to figure out the whole loadout - class, ability, health, speed, etc... All of it factors in. What if the mech carrying this gun had an ability unique to the weapon (say, if it were a secondary and thus was bound to the mech), and it enhanced the weapon in a way that was different from any weapon currently in the game? TL;DR: Look at the big picture (which, for this, has not been fully developed) before calling out issues with a single part of it. 

Edited by BluetoothBoy, 22 April 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[BluetoothBoy]

Just looked into the heat generation of these things, I'll have to consider the workings of this a bit more now... Aside from that, check out the new additions in the OP!

[Rainbow_Sheep]

That model is one of the strange things in this world that simultaneously makes me feel untalented while motivating me to be creative.

+1, just for the model. Stats could use a bit of working on but meh. WWW's suggestion was pretty good.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Cool stuff man! 

Edited by Chaotic-Insurgent, 09 June 2015 - 02:12 AM.

[BluetoothBoy]

If I may promote a different suggestion, as there has been a lot of requests for another, larger class of mech, perhaps this weapon would be better for that concept mech.

You see, the concept I created would call for a mech with only one weapon, the other arm would be dedicated to a 'riot shield' type weapon, that when used, would allow a C-Class crawl forward. It would be the largest mech to date, and require it's own game mode, but I feel this weapon may be perfect for it.

The original weapon was known as the APWS, or Anti-Particle Weaponry System. The APWS would be a devastating weapon, with more damage and heat per shot than any other weapon, thus the need for it's own game mode. It would technically be a 'rail gun' of sorts, as that is all a particle accelerator is in theory.  Should that be a worthy ideal to pursue, I have sketches I've made for the actual mech... Somewhere...

 

In any case, the major difference would be the consideration of stats. Rather than low heat, and limited damage, with a higher rate of fire, it would be the opposite, with a charge up for a major high damage hit, with extreme heat creation, and a limitation that during the charge up of the weapon the turning speed (thus aiming ability) would also be decreased.

This, is just a thought.

This sounds like a cool idea. :o

[EM1O]

Heat generated by the propulsion system, requiring rigorous maintenance of liquid nitrogen ultrahypothermal super-conducting electro-magnetic linear-motor coils (Tech manuals. yeesh) is phenomenal. This is one nagging reason why a weapon that requires only a projectile, and not the dedication of limited space for hazardous storage and handling of artillery cartridges, hasn't made the full transition to Naval vessels. It's just too temperamental, nearly impossible to rapidly aim aboard a ship or large armored terrain vehicle, and actually, clunky. Your mech might better be a D-frame super heavy Siege class just to tote this beast and its support systems around.

But yeah! hell yeah!

WhaaaaaaBOOM!

Edited by em1o, 22 April 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[hammockman22]

Throw it on an A class with secondary of hellfires and I'm in. I think that the charged and uncharged method like the breacher would be effective and being that the DPS would be lower than a breacher should be A class worthy. I do also like the idea of W^32s slowing of enemy mech but maybe with a different weapon... or maybe that could be the mech's ability I don't know. 

[BluetoothBoy]

Hey all! Back from a long week of being away from the computer, but I'm back and can work more on this again!

 

 

Heat generated by the propulsion system, requiring rigorous maintenance of liquid nitrogen ultrahypothermal super-conducting electro-magnetic linear-motor coils (Tech manuals. yeesh) is phenomenal. This is one nagging reason why a weapon that requires only a projectile, and not the dedication of limited space for hazardous storage and handling of artillery cartridges, hasn't made the full transition to Naval vessels. It's just too temperamental, nearly impossible to rapidly aim aboard a ship or large armored terrain vehicle, and actually, clunky. Your mech might better be a D-frame super heavy Siege class just to tote this beast and its support systems around.

But yeah! hell yeah!

WhaaaaaaBOOM!

 

Yeah, after researching a bit more, I realized this as well. However, considering how far into the future HAWKEN is based, and how simple a technology railguns are, I figured it would be safe to assume they figured out sizing and heat issues; as Killer said:

The material that conducts the electricity would, at our current level of technology, produce enough heat to melt the entire mech and it's allies. 

That's not considering that in Hawken, you have access to materials that defy gravity. Knowing that, and that there is already research underway for non-super-cooled superconductors, it isn't as big an issue as you would think. If we have drop ships that can hover using the energy of rat feces, I think you're just fine.

...And I agree. Also, these mechs are pretty giant themselves, so it's not like we're creating a handheld weapon or anything (something that would require much more suspension of disbelief).

[Volgraza]

What about changing the round to an Armor piercing and exploding round. Basically it does DPS to the first target it hits then continues through the target a short distance and explodes for 1/2 or 1/3 the damage in an area off effect. (for the pesky Tech Incinerator combos) ^_^

[BluetoothBoy]

What about changing the round to an Armor piercing and exploding round. Basically it does DPS to the first target it hits then continues through the target a short distance and explodes for 1/2 or 1/3 the damage in an area off effect. (for the pesky Tech Incinerator combos) ^_^

I like this idea! With a bit of tweaking, this sounds like it could work. :)

[HeraldRedfordIII]

Ima just put it out there even though the concept is whacky but.... magnet gun. I understand a rail gun already uses magnets but I'm thinking of something that would either:

A) pulls tows and grenades straight out of the air to be used against owner of said projectile.

B) Reflect incoming projectiles. I guess this would be most comparable to the pyro's airblast from TF2

[BluetoothBoy]

Ima just put it out there even though the concept is whacky but.... magnet gun. I understand a rail gun already uses magnets but I'm thinking of something that would either:

A) pulls tows and grenades straight out of the air to be used against owner of said projectile.

B) Reflect incoming projectiles. I guess this would be most comparable to the pyro's airblast from TF2

Maybe modify this and make it an ability? Some sort of magnetic repulsion field? Only issue is that such a thing would likely require a change to how raycasting weaponry works and is coded.

[Nightfirebolt]

Pretty sure the Breacher already is a railgun. Hence why it can penetrate shields, etc.

 

Nice 3D modelling, though.

[DeeRax]

Pretty sure the Breacher already is a railgun. Hence why it can penetrate shields, etc.

^This is the impression I got.

That not withstanding... Going on the OP's legit RAILGUNNY railgun model (And I do think Hawken could use this sort of RAILGUN railgun)...
I imagine it'd fit best on C-class sniperish thing. Instead of the original mechanics mentioned, though (They do seem really similar to the Breacher), I imagine something more along the lines of cross between the Sabot and the Heat Cannon:

• Long-range, high-burst, semi-auto low RoF, high heat generation.
• Regular firing is similar to a powerful sniper rifle, but it can be charged like the HC, which increases damage, range, & heat-gen, and also adds a (smallish) splash damage effect (From the sheer force of impact). I imagine it'd be a projectile weapon, rather than hitscan, but it'd be a really, really fast projectile, that flies completely, unerringly straight.
• Charge shot can also travel through shields, etc. like the Breacher.
• Ideally, should be pretty difficult to use at medium-ranges without some skill, and really difficult to use close-range.

Said railgun could either be a primary, or secondary, depending on design. I imagine it'd be best as a primary, with the Breacher and something else (Bolt? Slug? Redundant?) as the unlockable primaries. Secondary should be something really new and cool. I like the idea of the 'magnet gun' mentioned above, give it some indirect close-combat ability, that requires some skill, by reflecting enemy projectiles. Or maybe like a short-range electricity "stun gun" kind of thing (Secondary fire mode?) I dunno, something novel and magnetic/electricty-based, for sure. Just ideas.

As for theoretical mech's ability? I have no idea.... And that's getting beyond the scope of this thread anyways.

[Arkhaun]

I've heard many of you want a railgun in this game. I wouldn't mind one as well. It would fit, too, as it's not hi-tech sci-fi, but something that could be made from random parts.
 
So I made this, a mock-up of what such a railgun could/would look like. This is probably not a complete model, as it is a tad lacking in detail (only an hour or so of work on it), and obviously it has not been textured in the slightest.
 






Update [4/22/15]:

Adding the actual rails and the carriage. Still working on the loading mechanism at the back of the carriage.

 
 
Details:
 
Name: HVR (High-Velocity Railgun) Samson [Primary Weapon]
RoF: 0.75/sec
Heat: 22
DPS: 60
 
Firing modes:
There would be two firing modes on this gun. Basically, the difference between them is different ammunition types.
 
Ammo Type I: Scrap
This ammo type would be (5) small-ish chunks of metal flung out at high velocity at 17 damage each. There would be some spread, but it would be much narrower than that of the Flak Cannon's. However, the falloff of this weapon's range is fairly large, due to the non-aerodynamic nature of the ammo type. This would be for close and mid-range combat.
 
Ammo Type II: Bolt
This ammo type would consist of a single sharpened metal bolt that results in 75 damage, 10 less than the Scrap ammo at maximum effectiveness. This ammo type would be for long-range combat, and would have no noticeable falloff due to the extreme velocity and aerodynamics of the piece. Unlike the other high-powered long range weapons in the game, this one would have no scoped mode.
 
Heat:
Why such a low heat, you ask? To compensate for the low DPS - as a primary weapon on a likely offensive mech, 60 DPS isn't too terribly high. And it only makes sense - a railgun has very low heat buildup, as there are no explosions and very little friction. The only heat would be due to the ammo loading mechanisms and the heat buildup of the air due to the rapid acceleration of the projectiles.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? Fire away, pilots!

 how bout make it flip flopped on the firing modes so its like the reverse flash to the breacher

 

but make the railgun slugs have a dumb reaction to shields that makes the round superexplode resulting in huge dmg to the shield and or a micro flashbang effect that finishes super quick so its not too imba

[6ixxer]

How about a Twinrail?

 

Fires semi-auto (like a t32) with a fairly good RoF. Alternating rails so it looks more like a Hawkins.

Charges to fire a pair with range like a Breacher. Gets more ranged damage by means of two (non-penetrating) projectiles rather than a single breaching shot.

 

Not as punishing as a t32 or Breacher uncharged but better RoF for slightly less CQC DPS but better accuracy/damage at med-long range.

 

I suggested a speed debuffing secondary on a C- Class (to criticism from some) and I think I suggested breacher as an option. I'd happily have this similar primary cos then it wouldn't offend Breacher exclusivites quite so badly.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

Only one more month and this would have been a one year necro

[americanbrit14]

Pretty sure the Breacher already is a railgun. Hence why it can penetrate shields, etc.

i thought the breacher was something that used special ammo, like surround the shot in like a sabot only to break away when it hits the target letting the main shot pierce the armor/ shield hence why all the bolts slide together when charged

 

would make more sense as the Sabot Rifles cannot pierce sheilds

[DemitronPrime]

How about a Twinrail?

 

Fires semi-auto (like a t32) with a fairly good RoF. Alternating rails so it looks more like a Hawkins.

Charges to fire a pair with range like a Breacher. Gets more ranged damage by means of two (non-penetrating) projectiles rather than a single breaching shot.

 

Not as punishing as a t32 or Breacher uncharged but better RoF for slightly less CQC DPS but better accuracy/damage at med-long range.

 

I suggested a speed debuffing secondary on a C- Class (to criticism from some) and I think I suggested breacher as an option. I'd happily have this similar primary cos then it wouldn't offend Breacher exclusivites quite so badly.

 

This Kinda reminds me of the idea i had awhile back of the g2 pred being a c lass with invis+mobile scambler ability and twin bleachers, people said the twin bleacher was too much, maybe the op with the reversed trigger modes as mentioned above....

 

the idea of it being a slower, heavier mech add in my opinion a whole you swing to that pred gameplay, it would become almost like a ninja turkey O_O

[Sokram]

In my opinion it looks too "lightweight" for hawken. 

 

I would prefer less distance between rails, more wire and huge condensators with massive radiator.

 

 

Because weapons in hawken do make some sense. And you cant just ignore very basic railgun features.

 

 

Also, railguns can't shoot multiple pellets. Simple as that.

 

I suggest it to be a Secondary weapon instead. Just like Sabot rifle it should be scoped, high precision weapon.  Slower fire rate but more damage than Sabot. 

 Projectiles should leave a trail of heated plasma clouds that also do slight damage.