87 replies to this topic

[Maxunarul]

I think activate FF in public items only thing that is going to achieve is to scare more new players, already created many issues where it is difficult to attract new players permanently and now they are going to put FF is exposed, bad .

 

I think that should enable them on private servers and do not have 100% damage, with 10% going proving by example and so go up to find the point that makes the confrontation trench warfare, which is what it does not become worse could happen to Hawken.

 

If you do not enable 100% damage I think we have more former players willing to accommodate the change, that they would find something new to the game, since it is obvious that the current format is no longer attracted to, so it has something new for former players and make sure not to crowd out new players.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Tell me that NO ONE on my team will frag me for being WAY better than them and "stealing 'their' kills"

 

Tell me no one on my team will frag me for not being an abusive fuzzy bunny(this is on the salty swagger team)

 

Tell me no one on my team will 'votekick' me for not participating in exploits, or even just trying to win a Siege.

[thirtysix]

Tell me that NO ONE on my team will frag me for being WAY better than them and "stealing 'their' kills"

 

Tell me no one on my team will frag me for not being an abusive fuzzy bunny(this is on the salty swagger team)

 

Tell me no one on my team will 'votekick' me for not participating in exploits, or even just trying to win a Siege.

Tell ME no high mmr player will enter a low level match and pubstomp... it's all the same BS.

I would tend to believe that ppl WANT their team to win...

FF is good, will change some of the now horrible playing conditions... you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

[thirtysix]

 

I think activate FF in public items only thing that is going to achieve is to scare more new players, already created many issues where it is difficult to attract new players permanently and now they are going to put FF is exposed, bad .

 

I think that should enable them on private servers and do not have 100% damage, with 10% going proving by example and so go up to find the point that makes the confrontation trench warfare, which is what it does not become worse could happen to Hawken.

 

If you do not enable 100% damage I think we have more former players willing to accommodate the change, that they would find something new to the game, since it is obvious that the current format is no longer attracted to, so it has something new for former players and make sure not to crowd out new players.

 

We, the Hawken community, have adapted to EVERY change that has come our way and then some... How little faith you have in your fellow Hawkenites.

As far as new players being turned off, come now, what you don't know will never make the difference. You start playing with FF on, you learn to play with FF turned on... your logic does not stand.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Tell ME no high mmr player will enter a low level match and pubstomp... it's all the same BS.

I would tend to believe that ppl WANT their team to win...

FF is good, will change some of the now horrible playing conditions... you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

 

What in the...

 

Dude.  If you want to win, you want me on your team.  What I think we all don't want is some group of drunk/stoned asswipes-a-swagger kicking people 'cause it seems cool.

 

Edit: How you brought the topic to 'high level players stomping' from 'friendly fire' suggests you have an axe to grind.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 12 May 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Pelanthoris]

My opinion is based on below high-tier game on the pubs. Enabling FF without other major changes would ruin the game experience because:

• There is always someone who a) doesn't care, b) teamkills for the lulz, c) is mad at someone, d) is drunk, e) all of above
• Voip (ingame) is broken. Exact coordination impossible.
• Only few weapons don't have splash or spread. Not everyone wants to(, or can) git gud.

These are just a few examples why matches without some problem concerning FF would be quite rare. Even if people got used to FF being present. It takes just one ignorant, unskilled or unfocused pilot to ruin the match for easily 11 other pilots. This would strip the game of it's quite characteristic team spirit. The game might be much more interesting, sure, but it wouldn't be as much fun.

 

In order to FF being fun, the voip should work flawlesly. There should also be some kind of feedback system for team mates. Bare minimum would be kick vote. IMHO this game might have many nice features if there was a good and diverse feedback system to prevent abuse. Might start a suggestion thread about it...

Edited by Pelanthoris, 12 May 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Maxunarul]

We, the Hawken community, have adapted to EVERY change that has come our way and then some... How little faith you have in your fellow Hawkenites.

As far as new players being turned off, come now, what you don't know will never make the difference. You start playing with FF on, you learn to play with FF turned on... your logic does not stand.

 

Ok, but were changes for the game, the latter was to give more speed to the movements of the Mech, who has more action was not to look like another game.

 

Here it is proposing a change to make it more realistic, well let's analyze

 

If you're going to put FF to a mech as the Grenadier rest assured that when it defends will kill (or seriously damage) his entire team without wanting or willing it active ability and you have a mole that throws no Granada, launches barrage of grenades Are you going to point the bearing an activated ability Grenadier taking and knowing that those grenades bounce can go anywhere? �The enemy? good, and if there are 2 companions in close fight with the enemy? �Shoots? insurance you get 3 kills 1 enemy and 2 friends. And obvimente the team what will fill your blessings

 

Another mech would have problems is the Incinerator, is going to have to wait for no one close to their targets, ie if there is a skirmish going to be a spectator for that same damage will it do to an enemy to a friend that is going to happen with that player? it will die, but the boredom of waiting to shoot without removing (or seriously damage) to their friends in the process.

 

Activate the FF is to eliminate mechs of the games, you'd be vetoing the Grenadier, the armed Predator with EOC Repeater (although the EOC said repeater would be out of the equation FF), and the Incinerator, as their weapons do massive damage to that were designed, they are weapons of saturation not presicion therefore are devastating damage on a large scale, is not the same as a FF a Sharpshooter an FF of a Grenadier, the damage is abysmally different, a Sharpshooter hurts one A Grenadier hurts more and much damage.

 

Hence the proposal to make private sevidores seems good, it would be accessible only to veteramos players who are looking for new challenges within the game, and not expose yourself to new to the responsibility of receiving criticism (sometimes not very friendly ) for eliminating their comrades, which would scatter even more replayability Hawken.

Edited by Maxunarul, 12 May 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[RedVan]

you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

FF is a must have. Turn it on, leave it on.

you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

[PCP_MD]

FF engaged = RIP Incinerator, Grenadier, Scout, and probably more that i can't think of atm. You have no idea how often noobs screen incinerators. Noobs don't know they're hurting the incin AND decreasing his damage output. FF enabled, they'd just die, rage, and TK their incin. Same goes for grenadier, but grenadier can actually stop firing without losing DPS. Incin loses DPS for every second it has to stop firing, and it takes time to get it back... but before the incin will get his DPS back to full, someone else will inevitibly screen him and force him to stop firing again. As much as I'd LOVE to just murder the teammates who screen me when i play incin, I wouldn't, because i'd have angry noobs trying to TK me, and eventually i'd just get kicked for TKs.

Scout and raider would be on the other side of this sh!tshow, getting torn to shreds by bad teammates.

 

And EOC repeater mines are on a relatively short timer, meaning they WILL explode, and it hurts quite alot when you forget about the EOC mines you just fired, and walk over them right before they explode, so i'm sure your teammates, who arent paying attention to your mines, would just LOVE having an EOC on the team. :P oh and EOC pred also will explode when you drop mines past your limit, which will also hurt teammates.

 

tl:dr FF will greatly increase the toxicity of Hawken. Accidental TKers, intentional TKers, and ppl just being stupid, would turn Hawken into a sh!tshow.

[plons]

Triple TTK  and ok for friendly fire ...but like it is now noo way ,we already play with paper mechs  

 

and for some reason teammates like to jump in front of rocketeer and grenadier ...;killed myself more than once because of that

[BIsmuthZornisse]

yes, time to kill would need to be increased to take stray fire/explosions from allies (not griefing) into account. i didn't even think of that.

 

also, would friendly fire not also make "deathballing" much more difficult in narrow corridors, with how many mechs have explosive righthanded weapons (only reaper, sharpshooter and assaultg2 don't, i think)?

[Maxunarul]

 

 

and for some reason teammates like to jump in front of rocketeer and grenadier ...;killed myself more than once because of that

 

To me it has happened to me many times with the Predator, I have the EOC Repeat fully charged shot, and just one partner puts in front of me and all mines explode in my face, if you FF then activated 2 let half finished annihilated and if we have grouped all the Team seriously damaged.

 

Another point to consider is the notice of impact it's on the screen when they take damage, when you are shooting and impact your Mesh a line on your screen that tells you the address where you are shooting appears ( regardless of flicker on the radar), then that notice if activated FF has to distinguish friend from foe, and obviously if a friend is going to do a different kind of maneuver that if enemy.

 

If friend obviously you'll move to a different stop receiving FF place, but if enemy and you have to evaluate if you leave there or attack the new target, but to make quick decisions can not depend only on sight, radar (or a similar notice) you have to give this information, as the game currently is a fast-acting, so not much time to find such information only by sight.

[thirtysix]

 

you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

FF is a must have. Turn it on, leave it on.

you want it all your way and none anyone elses'.

 

been a while since you've popped in... same ol' same ol'... 1% trying to shout everyone down...

[thirtysix]

 

Ok, but were changes for the game, the latter was to give more speed to the movements of the Mech, who has more action was not to look like another game.

 

Here it is proposing a change to make it more realistic, well let's analyze

 

If you're going to put FF to a mech as the Grenadier rest assured that when it defends will kill (or seriously damage) his entire team without wanting or willing it active ability and you have a mole that throws no Granada, launches barrage of grenades Are you going to point the bearing an activated ability Grenadier taking and knowing that those grenades bounce can go anywhere? �The enemy? good, and if there are 2 companions in close fight with the enemy? �Shoots? insurance you get 3 kills 1 enemy and 2 friends. And obvimente the team what will fill your blessings

 

Another mech would have problems is the Incinerator, is going to have to wait for no one close to their targets, ie if there is a skirmish going to be a spectator for that same damage will it do to an enemy to a friend that is going to happen with that player? it will die, but the boredom of waiting to shoot without removing (or seriously damage) to their friends in the process.

 

Activate the FF is to eliminate mechs of the games, you'd be vetoing the Grenadier, the armed Predator with EOC Repeater (although the EOC said repeater would be out of the equation FF), and the Incinerator, as their weapons do massive damage to that were designed, they are weapons of saturation not presicion therefore are devastating damage on a large scale, is not the same as a FF a Sharpshooter an FF of a Grenadier, the damage is abysmally different, a Sharpshooter hurts one A Grenadier hurts more and much damage.

 

Hence the proposal to make private sevidores seems good, it would be accessible only to veteramos players who are looking for new challenges within the game, and not expose yourself to new to the responsibility of receiving criticism (sometimes not very friendly ) for eliminating their comrades, which would scatter even more replayability Hawken.

 

Actually my opinion is that Hawken would become more strategic, maybe ppl would THINK before they started shooting, instead of the run around shoot it up it is today

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

been a while since you've popped in... same ol' same ol'... 1% trying to shout everyone down...

 

 

Ridicule it and it will go away.  Relax, Brother, and take it in: the truth shall set you free. 

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 13 May 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Actually my opinion is that Hawken would become more strategic, maybe ppl would THINK before they started shooting, instead of the run around shoot it up it is today

 

 

I'm fairly certain this wouldn't make things more strategic. There's far, far too much to take into consideration, like TTK, spread damage, bullet spread, people who have computers that cannot allow consistently effective aiming, lag, battle tactics...

 

As a default I don't see this being something that would help anyone. And as I said before, FF would actively make the game worse to play for me.

[spinningchurro]

If freindly fire existed, at least once a week I would relentlessly fuzzy bunny with my own team in a given match. 

 

If we're dominating, instead of feeding I would just start massacring my teammates.  The chances of me doing anything like this correlate directly with the amount of alcohol in my system at the time.

 

So yes, please enable friendly fire. 

[Sokram]

I would like a friendly fire MODE.

 

So you can choose between FF and Classic.  And if i like FF more i will keep playing it.   Coz there is no reason to make ONLY FF. 

[WillyW]

After the relentless amount of opinions I got from this topic (very much appreciated btw - on both sides of the argument)... 

I have a proposition that most people might agree with. 

Here it is:

To me, FF is the equivalent of 'training-wheels' for any FPS game. Most people disagree with it for pubs, but I don't. However, I do understand it does have a purpose. It sacrifices a small amount of realism for the sake of making the lives of noob players a bit easier. So then, does it make sense to enable FF after a server's average MMR reaches a certain threshold? Say anywhere from 1500-1800 and above? That way, none of the pro-players could do any complaining because they have proven they have the skill to handle it. And if they can't handle it, then their MMR will suffer until they reach the point of having it turned off again. Thus, being proven that their skill isn't enough to handle it. I find that there are plenty of players that find their way into high-tier matches by doing things that would otherwise get them killed with FF turned on. And that change should solve it.

Edited by WillyW, 14 May 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[Grollourdo]

Meh very true but I think this would change ALOT of the game ... So would we want this change for hawken? Its possible, the only question would be if it should or should not....

I think it should be further tested or something and get people to discover more, like maybe a test week or server or something?

Idk

FF overall has advantages and draw backs...

I think over all if you guys want to implement FF the hawken players need to accept the drawbacks... That's the thing

I don't have particularly an opinion due to not having played with FF before there gore I am just posting the fact I know about both sides.

Groll

[mittens800]

I have played FF on in Charcoals Seige mode and it is fun.

 

From my exp. I can only think of like 2 people that might grief in average level server.

And who cares - don't like it just leave and find a new server.

FF goes both ways... shoot me I shoot you back!

 

Gren will have a problem but Incin - if you can play you should not have huge problems.

 

It does wonders as therapy for venting on sky shooters.

At least now you can do something to them instead of just RQ in disbelief.

 

Why would FF make people more defensive?  It should make you want to be more accurate and discriminate fire more... 

[PoopSlinger]

As that dude above says, friendly fire is available in Private servers.  Also Shooting friends gives them health is an option so everyone can be TECH!!!

[Kamile]

"It's a bad idea and your opinion that it's a good idea doesn't make it a good idea." Sums up this thread.

This forum is full of pilots feigning intelligence. It's a bad idea and I don't have to tell you why. It is objectively an awful idea so why fight so hard for it? It's available where people want it and when they want it. That should be good enough.

 

I'd hate to see the day where accounts get banned for griefing. It'd be too much work for Josh and Tiggs alone to handle that kind of mess. It's neither worth the effort nor the time.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

It's a bad idea and I don't have to tell you why.

you don't have to, but i don't see how it's "objectively" bad, so tell me.

 

"Feigning intelligence" appears to be a common trait in humans. Which presumably includes you.

[Panzermanathod]

Isn't Kamile a girl's name?

 

Also, I've made no attempts to hide that my reasoning largely is personal reasons. I also know FF can be turned on in private servers. But I've said I wouldn't want it as default.

[Kamile]

When FF is on I'll only kill you and not bad guys. HOHOHOHO, I'm so smart. HOHOHOHO. Indubitably. Kamile is a gentleman's name and I am a gentleman!

Edited by Kamile, 14 May 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

Wouldn't that make YOU the problem, though?

 

Also, countermeasures to grieving such as deducing points from repeatedly teamkilling players need to be created before making friendly fire the default for public servers.

[Kamile]

I've got over 24k kills and double, even triples, of every mech. Please take away HC from me.The one thing not many seem to grasp is that Hawken is a sci-fi arena shooter not a large scale realistic future battle simulator.

I'm not going to pretend that screaming, "Look out pilots friendly fire!!!!" While spraying charged Heat Cannon rounds and TOWs into my team to shoot at people behind them won't be funny. I would do it every game. I would do it when there are no enemies and just say, "IFF confirmed friendly." And leave them broken with 10 armor. I would only be a problem because the game would be broken and because I care more about having fun than I do winning.

It's available to people who want it when they want it and that's the only way it should be.

"FF makes better pilots." Oh really? I'd say staying in a match whether you win or lose would make a better pilot. MITTENS YOU SOB!

Edited by Kamile, 14 May 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Nightfirebolt]

They should change the name of the game from Hawken to "TROLLIN" if friendly fire were to be implemented in public servers.

 

With that said, I do think private servers should have the ability to turn friendly fire on if they choose.

 

EDIT: Why wasn't this suggestion lumped into the "ultimate bad ideas" thread?

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 14 May 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Kamile]

HAWKEN

War is a machine and no one is your friend.

 

Why don't you just make every game mode DM? It'd have literally the same effect and would be easier to balance. >:3

[BIsmuthZornisse]

With that said, I do think private servers should have the ability to turn friendly fire on if they choose.

 

EDIT: Why wasn't this suggestion lumped into the "ultimate bad ideas" thread?

i think they already do, it's just that, by default the damage multiplyier for friendly fire is 0.

 

it's not in that thread because the original poster didn't consider it a bad idea, obviously.

I don't think players like kamile being stupid enough to intentionally shoot allys with friendly fire makes this a bad idea, since i'm pretty sure grievers can be reported (have the new devs banned any yet?), and as stated elsewhre, the devs likely have enough foresight to include ingame punishments (points, hc, k/d can all be decreased) and if that doesn't deter them, report them.

[Nightfirebolt]

 

I don't think players like kamile being stupid enough to intentionally shoot allys with friendly fire makes this a bad idea, since i'm pretty sure grievers can be reported

 

Dude. Yesterday I was in a siege match with a guy who literally just sat at spawn shooting his teammates for no reason. He wasn't doing any damage, but he didn't care. He was having a blast. Imagine how much more funzies he'd have if he was actually blowing us to bits.

 

If this game had widespread implementation of friendly fire, the devs would probably have to quadruple their support staff just to keep up with the griefing reports.

 

Reporting people leeches valuable time and money from the development team. Keeping troublemaking to a minimum through passive means is better for them, and ultimately, better for us.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 14 May 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[thirtysix]

After the relentless amount of opinions I got from this topic (very much appreciated btw - on both sides of the argument)... 

I have a proposition that most people might agree with. 

Here it is:

To me, FF is the equivalent of 'training-wheels' for any FPS game. Most people disagree with it for pubs, but I don't. However, I do understand it does have a purpose. It sacrifices a small amount of realism for the sake of making the lives of noob players a bit easier. So then, does it make sense to enable FF after a server's average MMR reaches a certain threshold? Say anywhere from 1500-1800 and above? That way, none of the pro-players could do any complaining because they have proven they have the skill to handle it. And if they can't handle it, then their MMR will suffer until they reach the point of having it turned off again. Thus, being proven that their skill isn't enough to handle it. I find that there are plenty of players that find their way into high-tier matches by doing things that would otherwise get them killed with FF turned on. And that change should solve it.

You should be a politician...

There is a middle ground we can all stand on.

[WillyW]

You should be a politician...

There is a middle ground we can all stand on.

 

Thanks. :) A few people have told me I'd make a good lawyer. I think that's a stretch though.

[Lily_from_animove]

Because f2p and dedicated trolls, what do you think will any "hater" do when he can FF everyone around on a free to play created account?

On private servers where GM's are faster at hand this all can be controlled better and easier.  In a multipler online with centralsied servers, a lot less.

Yes its of course a cool feature basically, but the absuive possibilities with todays internet generations: sad.

[Grollourdo]

I like pie... I would like to ff with pie XD

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I like pie... I would like to ff with pie XD

I ship it

[Grollourdo]

I ship it

YAAAAY XD

[dorobo]

If one trolls the rest of the team can kill him with FF too you know   just sayin

[Lily_from_animove]

If one trolls the rest of the team can kill him with FF too you know   just sayin

 

and? this just means the troll entirely accomplished his mission of being a troll.