31 replies to this topic

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

 

(edit: I forgot to mention that all mechs are now the same price through the weekend.  Part of the goal is to start making it more obvious that all mechs are competitive.  Currently the price differences give the impression that the higher-priced mechs are much more powerful, and since they seem out of reach for new users, it's hard to avoid "pay 2 win" feelings)

 

-capnjosh

 

Considering the good captain's words about the deal we've got goin' on, why have it all equal for just the weekend?  Why don't we have the mechs the same price overall to help continue the avoidance of p2w?

 

Here are ideas by fellow forum members:

 

I agree with keeping them all the same price; but it makes sense with them being a way to keep newer players away from the more difficult mechs as Silverfire stated. Perhaps they could all be the same price, but have a "Difficulty Level: ?????" type of rating instead? Assault/Zerker being ?????, predator/scout ????? for example.

 

 

My point is that the starting primary should be the easiest weapon to use for each Mech.

A vulcan-D brawler would be better rather than a flak.

 

8kHC for each naked Mech, easiest weapon to use as starter, "-50%" for the first Mech bought and you'll be good.

 

 

To counter the high price for every mech, I think the devs should have a larger test-drive - more mechs. I'm seeing two-three mechs per week when it really should be double/or fice that for new players who want to try all the mechs they can.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 05 June 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

yes.

i think the different prices were supposedly indicative of the mech's difficulty of use. but equal prices is much better.

[Aregon]

I am somewhat embarrassed I never thought about this. +1

[Silverfire]

Price kind of equates to skill level required to pilot effectively, so it's a way to keep newer players away from more difficult mechs to pilot due to higher price point.  

[fAEth]

I agree with keeping them all the same price; but it makes sense with them being a way to keep newer players away from the more difficult mechs as Silverfire stated. Perhaps they could all be the same price, but have a "Difficulty Level: ?????" type of rating instead? Assault/Zerker being ?????, predator/scout ????? for example.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Price kind of equates to skill level required to pilot effectively, so it's a way to keep newer players away from more difficult mechs to pilot due to higher price point.  

Look at what this guy said:

 

I agree with keeping them all the same price; but it makes sense with them being a way to keep newer players away from the more difficult mechs as Silverfire stated. Perhaps they could all be the same price, but have a "Difficulty Level: ?????" type of rating instead? Assault/Zerker being ?????, predator/scout ????? for example.

 

I really like this idea since newbies will be properly warned.  So if they buy a mech that is uber difficult, they should be prepared for tons of practice.

[Panzermanathod]

How would one tangibly grade mechs? 

 

I'm not saying I disagree with the idea. But I'm wondering what perimeters would one use in grading. Such a grading system itself is very subjective, and one must keep in mind that not all mechs fit in all situations. Some weapons and some mechs are better for support, some better for front line. All mechs also have different weapons to choose from.

 

Whether or not a rating system is used, I personally am neutral on. But if there is going to be a rating system, I think just having "Difficulty Rating: 3/5" is not nearly enough info given to a potential buyer.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

How would one tangibly grade mechs? 

 

I'm not saying I disagree with the idea. But I'm wondering what perimeters would one use in grading. Such a grading system itself is very subjective, and one must keep in mind that not all mechs fit in all situations. Some weapons and some mechs are better for support, some better for front line. All mechs also have different weapons to choose from.

 

Whether or not a rating system is used, I personally am neutral on. But if there is going to be a rating system, I think just having "Difficulty Rating: 3/5" is not nearly enough info given to a potential buyer.

Take a look at dis: http://steamcommunit...s/?id=233230954

[Panzermanathod]

So are you suggesting all that should be put in game?

[Grollourdo]

I like where this is going

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

So are you suggesting all that should be put in game?

Not everything, but to use it as a guide (heh).  Obviously, that would overwhelm everyone with tons of text and other complicated stuff.  What I'd like you to focus on is the overall difficulty that each mech had been listed with.  Not to mention, the guide itself has been made by a few reputable people.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 31 May 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[Rahr12341]

I think they mechs should have the same price but become slightly cheaper when they are on the rotation. I remember Super Friday Night Combat doing something similar it was a good way to get people to try to power play through the week to get that mech you want.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

a difficulty rating could be based on how different the weapons behave to the starting mech's and how difficult the ability is to use compared to the starting mech's coolant.

[CrimsonKaim]

To the OP:.Yea, noticed that as well but since we have bigger problems to solve, I didn't bother to post it lol.

But no difficulty rating, 'cause this is always a subiective rating. While it shows approx. The difficulty, it neber shows it accurately and even less if you consider the different loadouts. An AR - Orblord Scout could be a 2 star while a Deflector - no Orblord/AC Scout could be a 4 star.

[Nightfirebolt]

In a perfect world, we'd standardize the prices of all mechs. However, if they're going to be releasing new mechs and prestige mechs like G2's, I imagine they would want to keep the prices of those mechs inflated in order to capitalize on the demand for them.

 

I imagine that's part of the reason why the mech prices are uneven. Theoretically, if you keep the cost of less popular mechs down, and more popular mechs high, you make uber profit. That's good for Reloaded, which in turn is sort of good for us too.

 

Still. If they took the steps to standardize the mech prices, I would totally support that.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 31 May 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Not everything, but to use it as a guide (heh).  Obviously, that would overwhelm everyone with tons of text and other complicated stuff.  What I'd like you to focus on is the overall difficulty that each mech had been listed with.  Not to mention, the guide itself has been made by a few reputable people.

 Yeah, alright.

 

That could work. Better than a single rating, at least.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

To the OP:.Yea, noticed that as well but since we have bigger problems to solve, I didn't bother to post it lol.

But no difficulty rating, 'cause this is always a subiective rating. While it shows approx. The difficulty, it neber shows it accurately and even less if you consider the different loadouts. An AR - Orblord Scout could be a 2 star while a Deflector - no Orblord/AC Scout could be a 4 star.

It's far better than what we currently have.  The prices in mech currently have made many newbies think that more expensive = better.  The fact is that the newbie will still have to learn all the quirks of a Predator or a Scout even with said internals.

 

 

In a perfect world, we'd standardize the prices of all mechs. However, if they're going to be releasing new mechs and prestige mechs like G2's, I imagine they would want to keep the prices of those mechs inflated in order to capitalize on the demand for them.

 

I imagine that's part of the reason why the mech prices are uneven. Theoretically, if you keep the cost of less popular mechs down, and more popular mechs high, you make uber profit. That's good for Reloaded, which in turn is sort of good for us too.

 

Still. If they took the steps to standardize the mech prices, I would totally support that.

If they were to implement this, I think it would be a good idea to increase the amount of cosmetics since a lot of people say that Hawken's customization to make a mech feel like 'yours' is lacking slightly.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 01 June 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[Nightfirebolt]

 

If they were to implement this, I think it would be a good idea to increase the amount of cosmetics since a lot of people say that Hawken's customization to make a mech feel like 'yours' is lacking slightly.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Grollourdo]

Yep XD

[crockrocket]

Price kind of equates to skill level required to pilot effectively, so it's a way to keep newer players away from more difficult mechs to pilot due to higher price point.

Zerker is highest price tier, reaper and brawler are lowest. I would say current pricing is not working quite as you say.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Zerker is highest price tier, reaper and brawler are lowest. I would say current pricing is not working quite as you say.

Yet I find more newbies find it difficult to play Brawler effectively.  Many new people who buy Brawler first is because it's the cheaper mech--not because it is the so-called easier to play mech.  This makes a lot of them feel cheated out of their time spent, and are more likely to leave the game.  Hawken is in a difficult time where most newer players will probably quit due to continuous losses and believing that their mechs are bad (such as the Brawler, which is a good class, but a newbie won't have the necessary skills to use them effectively).  

 

Higher tiered players love the C-Classes for their high health and in combination with skills, is the overall better class type to use in high tier play.  You must remember that A-Classes are the top dogs when it comes to going against lower tier players in general.  In fact, I've seen more newbie posts about how much easier it is to play zerker early on than Brawler.  

 

The reason as to why mechs should be given the same price (with the general difficulty rating) is so that the newbie will be informed that if s/he chooses the Predator or [insert difficult mech here] they will have to spend the time learning all the quirks and other stuff.  OR  they can choose the easier mechs such as the Assault or Zerker, where they will be able to learn the basics of Hawken's maneuvers and eventually get better to use the more difficult mechs.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 01 June 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Anyone else want to add something to improve this idea?

[MomOw]

My point is that the starting primary should be the easiest weapon to use for each Mech.

A vulcan-D brawler would be better rather than a flak.

 

About pricing / skill requirement, I really don't know. I mean, having a high price for given mech wont help new players from getting roflstomped by a higher skiller player. It just adds some hype or maybe just more frustration because of the grind required to have a fully equipped mech (~20kHC to 30kHC).

 

Furthermore, cheaper Mech which are more difficult to use means that you can have them earlier in game and train more, so I really can't find out what's behind Mech price.

 

8kHC for each naked Mech, easiest weapon to use as starter, "-50%" for the first Mech bought and you'll be good.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

My point is that the starting primary should be the easiest weapon to use for each Mech.

A vulcan-D brawler would be better rather than a flak.

 

8kHC for each naked Mech, easiest weapon to use as starter, "-50%" for the first Mech bought and you'll be good.

I really like your ideas.  I'm going to add them, I didn't even think about the starting weapon.

 

 

 

About pricing / skill requirement, I really don't know. I mean, having a high price for given mech wont help new players from getting roflstomped by a higher skiller player. It just adds some hype or maybe just more frustration because of the grind required to have a fully equipped mech (~20kHC to 30kHC).

 

Furthermore, cheaper Mech which are more difficult to use means that you can have them earlier in game and train more, so I really can't find out what's behind Mech price.

Hm...but the problem is that thanks to the MMR graph, we see that our player base is made up of the extremes.  Newbies, some of the lower MMR vets, and the extremely high MMR vets who are amazing in the game.  

 

Think of this from a newbie's perspective who has no idea about this game, other than the fact that it got revived and it's a F2P game.  They start off with a less than appropriate tutorial, will probably face off bots in Co-Op TDM or Co-Op Des, and find that the HC you receive is quite pitiful really.  They join the queue in PvP and get mauled by veteran players in either their actual accounts or in scrubs, get confused by the game mechanics that wasn't explained to them in the tutorial, and lose 3/4 matches they join, and for their troubles, they still receive a low amount of HC.  Sure, they might get HC from the cheevos, but after that, what's there?

 

That's a pretty uphill battle man.  Most won't look at the game like 'This is a challenge I can overcome!  This is exciting!', they will complain about P2W, be frustrated at their lack of knowledge and skill, and hate the grind immensely.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 04 June 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I love the idea of them being all the same price.

I love the idea of giving them a difficulty rating.

Awesome suggestions.

[MomOw]

 

why not have all at the same price?

 

Done.

 

Now, let's go for a -50% discount on your first Mech and alternate weapons revamp' to have an easier start !

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I'm against this same price thing - mostly because the mechs are now ALL expensive. Not very new player friendly in my opinion. :/

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Done.

 

Now, let's go for a -50% discount on your first Mech and alternate weapons revamp' to have an easier start !

Heh, I hope the good captain will go for it.

 

 

I'm against this same price thing - mostly because the mechs are now ALL expensive. Not very new player friendly in my opinion. :/

Personally, I was hoping the base prices would be about 6k-7k.  I was surprised that the captain actually went for a similar idea.  However, to offset the 9k price, I'd like a real big decrease in price for items, internals, and weapons.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

 

Personally, I was hoping the base prices would be about 6k-7k.  I was surprised that the captain actually went for a similar idea.  However, to offset the 9k price, I'd like a real big decrease in price for items, internals, and weapons.

 

I think the other way around would work better. People who are new to the game would want to try out as many mechs as they can, not as many items as they can. Anyways, I doubt a new player would even want to spend their hard-earned HC on some items. That's literally like saying to spend all your in-game points on items in LoL before wanting to try out the dozens of champions. Except, maybe amplify that a bit.

 

To counter the high price for every mech, I think the devs should have a larger test-drive - more mechs. I'm seeing two-three mechs per week when it really should be double/or fice that for new players who want to try all the mechs they can.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 04 June 2015 - 11:44 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I think the other way around would work better. People who are new to the game would want to try out as many mechs as they can, not as many items as they can. Anyways, I doubt a new player would even want to spend their hard-earned HC on some items. That's literally like saying to spend all your in-game points on items in LoL before wanting to try out the dozens of champions. Except, maybe amplify that a bit.

 

To counter the high price for every mech, I think the devs should have a larger test-drive - more mechs. I'm seeing two-three mechs per week when it really should be double/or fice that for new players who want to try all the mechs they can.

Hm, you bring up an excellent point.  However like I said before, I was basing my suggestions on prices that were 6-7k.  I'm hoping the captain can adjust the prices to such.  Though, due to the fact that the good captain has made the prices higher than I'd thought they'd be, I like the test drive idea.  I'll add it on!

[Lily_from_animove]

Price kind of equates to skill level required to pilot effectively, so it's a way to keep newer players away from more difficult mechs to pilot due to higher price point.  

 

But this could fail, a new palyer could think: more expensive = better, So let me save a bit longer.

 

and then you have the newbie in the hard to play mech.

[Nightfirebolt]

But this could fail, a new palyer could think: more expensive = better, So let me save a bit longer.

 

and then you have the newbie in the hard to play mech.

 

I would like to direct you to this thread.