90 replies to this topic

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Another way to solve this issue is by allowing people to sell mechs.

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 04 June 2015 - 03:26 PM.

[MomOw]

few computations

 

sdby who plays 2 hours in a row per day, which start with a coop TDM (easy daily win bonus and OK for a warm up), then does 8 TDM (no more than 8 in 2 hours including dead time between macthes) could win around 3600HC

(I guess that a coop TDM is worth 70HC and a TDM 150HC)

 

So "3 days" are now required to grind a new naked mech.

 

The "old price" for internals and items lead to an additionnal 15000HC to have an equipped Mech, if the new price is now -50% for items this should lead to only ~10000HC (assuming internal price remains unchanged), so this would lead to another "3 days"

 

----

 

As I now own most Mech in the game I don't care for myself, but I have a friend who started to casually play Hawken and that grind seems quite high.

 

I'm all for a "-50% discount" for buying your first Mech, and maybe some way to sell a Mech or maybe some sort of a time limited refund.

 

HC transfer from one player to another should be carefully watched over to avoid smurf abuse.

Edited by MomOw, 04 June 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Sounds like the start of a new player base in Asia.

 

At least you guys wouldn't have to deal with them regularly. :P

[wolfrock]

Testhawken I'm surprised you didn't jump on the 1750hc brawler reaper and CRT and the 3800hc van gren raider tech but maybe you missed out on last weekend's experiment.

I'd be more than annoyed if I missed out as well, and now had to grind out 6k more for a reaper.

The best scenario for new players would have been to take advantage of those double HC and XP weekends and not spend until last saturday's experimental sale.

You can still do as well as you're doing with what you have in your garage, but sorry to hear if you're fed up already.

[BaronSaturday]

No. no. I don't, because you didn't present me with anything to argue against. Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence. It's a single data point and it's heavily biased.

So remind me what I'm supposed to be arguing against here?

So when I said this is beta and that you should know what you signed up for instead of whining when things change, and they wilk as is the nature of beta... That was biased and anecdotal?

[EM1O]

Maybe you're arguing with a smurf ArMoReD cLoWn...or a zombie dopelganger of him. In which case you will always be wrong, he'll always be right, and his point of view is the only valid one everyone here should have.

Or something like that.

 

edit: me personally? The issue in past Forum discussions, regardless of price, has NEVER been the MECH purchase price. it's the weapons & items that were originally preposterously overpriced, and created a Why Bother with the UeberGrind, newb bailouts from the game... IMO! now he can pay one standard price for the mech, and with the lowered items, internals, and weapons there isn't the disheartening view of having to grind for a week just to have a beefy killing machine. (almost) immediate gratification.

Edited by em1o, 05 June 2015 - 04:52 AM.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

So when I said this is beta and that you should know what you signed up for instead of whining when things change, and they wilk as is the nature of beta... That was biased and anecdotal?

No that was just entirely irrelevant and even less worth responding to. The prices haven't changed in a year or more and they raised them without warning. Beta or not, that's poor handling of the situation, and it's fuzzy bunnyed over a fair amount of new players, not just me.

Edited by TestHAWKEN001, 05 June 2015 - 08:40 AM.

[Silverfire]

If you've been reading forums and keeping up with current events, one may or may not have been aware that the devs have been looking at reshuffling the economy and addressing the grind.

It's not without warning AFAIK.

[ticklemyiguana]

Nope

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 05 June 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[GGGanjaMan]

No that was just entirely irrelevant and even less worth responding to. The prices haven't changed in a year or more and they raised them without warning. Beta or not, that's poor handling of the situation, and it's fuzzy bunnyed over a fair amount of new players, not just me.

The prices haven't changed in almost a year because development stopped on the game. The old devs shut down and the game was bought out, so only recently would there be any changes/new development. You're bitching and moaning about buying a 12K mech and then it being changed to 9K or 6K as screwing over new players like you. However, in that same vein of thought, wouldn't "newer" players than you still benefit from that lowered cost from here on out? So your tantrum still seems a bit hypocritical and centered on yourself instead of any greater altruism for actual new players.

 

All the vets have bought all these mechs/items/internals at full price, not just 1 mech or parts - yet none of them seem to be bitching and moaning about it.

[Interrobang87]

2c

Mechs should be more expensive because you're only going to buy each of them once (usually) and then the items/internals that you will wind up buying lots of being cheaper just feels more intuitive. I'm not really on board with the barrier to entry argument because we still have fully loaded test drives and 9k HC isn't THAT much. Any idea how long it takes to grind out a new champion in league? (Way longer)

That being said, it is my opinion that the extra HC bonuses for new players should be brought back. I forget exactly what they were but getting 10k HC for the first 10 hours played or something so they can fool around with new whatevers would be good. I realize this reads like I'm contradicting my previous statement but just roll with it.

[Hek_naw]

Coupon/code for starters is an excellent idea! And no compromise at all. It is a better starter offer than the LOADEDASSAULT code. Why? Because you get to choose in which mech to spend your first MC/HC the first time. It gets you used to the economy, the market and the garage right off the bat. Getting the choice is thrilling for many players.

 

Together with the current mech test-runs, you get a neat way to compare and choose on what kind of class/type you would be spending your first credits. Those even allow you to get right into the game, without having to go through the "create your character" stage that is setting up a new mech.

 

And if you were going to spend money on this game anyway, the starter bonus simply becomes a pleasant, unexpected surprise.

Edited by Hek_naw, 05 June 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[teeth_03]

all the mech upgrades need to be cheaper to reflect this change

[EM1O]

all the mech upgrades need to be cheaper to reflect this change

this. items and internals that cost upwards of nearly six times the mech's full price, when tallied. and that's just the financial load. the crushing disappointment in finding out "this is a POS". the mk1 and mk2 garbage that you beefed up, or that wimpy mini-flak you horsed up to a Flak Cannon, then went all out for the HEAT Cannon--then said (11k HC later)--wtf fuzzy bunny is this? and went back to the Flak Cannon.

That's expensive player alienating pricing.

ReLoaded is feeling it out, and it looks good, so far. At least BETTER.

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

[IareDave]

Oh, why thank you so much Mr. IhavenoproblemswithhawkenbecauseImnumber1inmmrandhaveallthethingssoitsreallyhardformetounderstandthefrustrationthatcomeswiththenewplayerexperience.

Maybe you could share a link instead of half assing your suggestion like a childish twat?

:)

PS: Do you really think they're going to refund me HC on account of what I planned to do based on how the mechs have been priced for what I can gather, years? I'm not sure, but something tells me no.

I can't take someone seriously over the Internet who throws a hissyfit and then expects some sort of pity card to be given to himself as if the entire company revolves around your best interests.

[BaronSaturday]

No that was just entirely irrelevant and even less worth responding to. The prices haven't changed in a year or more and they raised them without warning. Beta or not, that's poor handling of the situation, and it's fuzzy bunnyed over a fair amount of new players, not just me.

No. Beta is beta. Have you ever been a part of a beta? This is how it goes. And the prices didn't change for a year because there were no developers. Now ReLoaded is playing catch up on code they just got. The pricing was always a debate topic and was always being worked. Read the EULA and ToS. The ToS explains very clearly that everything is subject to change. Or did you just scroll down and check the box? I suspect so. You actually can't be upset. Like. You have no actual right to be upset. Frustrated? Maybe a little, but you checked a box that said you accept and agree that this is the way of things. So that's your bad.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

Where do the EULA and TOS say "if you click accept you no longer have the rights to feeling certain emotions and allowing them to motivate you to an action", is that legal, and under what jurisdiction?

 

Sorry, but that's fuzzy bunny, especially in this context wherein the price drop was a change in order to correct the highly recognized mistake of having overpriced products in the first place.

 

I don't understand how you people are so willing to accept and even support these absolutely awful deals when one dev team already went under from terrible practices. Why does this community enable such terrible behaviour?

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 06 June 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[NRgyk64]

For those who want another new player advice :

I totally disagree with TestHAWKEN.
I mean, yeah, sure, the old pricing was cool because he was bringing a sort of leveling system. The cheaper was the mech, the easyer it was (at least fort the majority of mechs).

But i don't feel the new pricing like a bullying or whatever. I found it very fear, in fact. All mechs are equal in price and it's up to you to choose carefully the one you prefer, wich one is the most sexy, wich one is Da mech for you.

If you are patient, you wait for testing them with free weeks.

If you are not, you buy some of them and choose the best for you. (I'm in this category)
And seriously, 9k, i just don't find it hard to get at all.
Just with the daily bonus, and playing some games each day, you can have a new mech more or less all nine days.
Nine days. It's just so fast.

[BaronSaturday]

Where do the EULA and TOS say "if you click accept you no longer have the rights to feeling certain emotions and allowing them to motivate you to an action", is that legal, and under what jurisdiction?

Sorry, but that's fuzzy bunny, especially in this context wherein the price drop was a change in order to correct the highly recognized mistake of having overpriced products in the first place.

I don't understand how you people are so willing to accept and even support these absolutely awful deals when one dev team already went under from terrible practices. Why does this community enable such terrible behaviour?

Oh. It doesn't use those words, but it does say that nothing is promised and anything can change. I didn't say it wasn't okay to state an opinion on the subject, I said it's rediculous to be upset about changes that were made in an attempt to rectify a problem they were left with, and for the most part they have. It's not "bad behavior", it's a drastic change that is closer to what we actually need.

So, to sum it all up, say you offer a service to me in exchange for a computer. I give you a paper to sign with the specs with what brands I'm going to use. I also tell you that if those brands aren't available, I'll use a different one. Say Patriot instead of Mushkin and Asus instead of Sapphire. You sign it, agreeing to those terms. I use the former brands due to availability. Things changed. Do you really think it's reasonable to yell at me when you were the one that agreed to the terms? I'd just never do business with you again.

Edited by BaronSaturday, 06 June 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[devotion]

 

We've got a hunch that the previous mech prices have introduced an unnecessary sense of Pay2Win - each mech is actually competitive in its own right, but the significant pricing differences would seem to indicate something very different. So starting today all base mech packages will be priced at 9,923HC and 948MC.  The goal is to clearly deliver the message to new users that Hawken's design goals are to be balanced and *not* Pay2Win.

 

Obviously, some mechs cost more now.  However, note that all the upgrades to a mech still cost less, thus reducing the total spend that users would sink into a mech (think of how new users need to test out a number of upgrade combinations before they find a build that works best for them).

 

We will be adjusting the prices of the remaining products over the coming 2 weeks, so check in on the store often.  I think you'll appreciate the changes.

 

i agree with you that new players get a daunting impression of the store; it's understandable how they feel it's necessary to pay to win, but standardizing prices seems like an unintuitive solution (at least in the isolated context of mech pricing. i may be missing a bigger design picture to come).

 

i've seen lots of new players stop off directly at the reaper or brawler because they were priced at 3k. raising the entry barrier to purchasing new mechs seems counterproductive in stimulating interest in the store, even if purchasing the entire catalog may be cheaper. realistically speaking, how many players are ever going to purchase the entire catalog? i myself still don't even own the g2 raider or bruiser. i will concede that i may be underestimating the value behind the free mech rotation, but i don't think this the design is in favor of newer players or player retention.

 

i'm personally under the impression that your best bets of monetization are to push new content. stagnation kills an existing player base, and entry barrier prevents growth. i think there is difficulty in producing continuous content for a fps game rather than say a traditional moba, but i feel like solving that (whether it be cosmetics, actual mechs (seems easy to go too far here), or a new currency sink altogether) will be a tremendous step in the right direction, from both a business and a developing standpoint.

 

also, i think standardizing prices "because all mechs are equal" is silly conceptually. mechs will never truly be equal in an game with inherent asymmetric design, and new content will always be more attractive by virtue of being new. standardized pricing won't let you capitalize on that.

[MomOw]

o captnjosh ! my captnjosh ! a "-50%" discount on the first Mech you buy should be great !

Edited by MomOw, 06 June 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

No. Beta is beta. Have you ever been a part of a beta? This is how it goes. And the prices didn't change for a year because there were no developers. Now ReLoaded is playing catch up on code they just got. The pricing was always a debate topic and was always being worked. Read the EULA and ToS. The ToS explains very clearly that everything is subject to change. Or did you just scroll down and check the box? I suspect so. You actually can't be upset. Like. You have no actual right to be upset. Frustrated? Maybe a little, but you checked a box that said you accept and agree that this is the way of things. So that's your bad.

You just... Really don't get it at all.

Let me tryyyyyyyyyy and put it in simple terms.

No matter what I agreed to, it wasn't to keep playing, or paying for this game. The developers are the ones who need players money - me signing an EULA doesn't get them that. Warning players of changes that will fuzzy bunny them over would go a long way.

Alright? Simple enough? I'm the customer, and if the product is making me frustrated or upset, guess who doesn't get my money!

I really can't believe that this concept is so beyond so many people's reasoning capacity.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

i'm probably not the intended "target audience" for this update since i already have all mechs for a long time, but i think almost ten thousand hawken credits per mech is a little much, with how little the matches give you.

[DarkSpock]

 

We've got a hunch that the previous mech prices have introduced an unnecessary sense of Pay2Win - each mech is actually competitive in its own right, but the significant pricing differences would seem to indicate something very different. So starting today all base mech packages will be priced at 9,923HC and 948MC.  The goal is to clearly deliver the message to new users that Hawken's design goals are to be balanced and *not* Pay2Win.

 

 

I don't understand why raising some of the mech prices, which inherently raising the barrier of entry for new players, gives the right message. If at all, that just gives the impression that the game is even grindier than before. I don't suppose new players who didn't want to grind 3k for the cheaper mechs before would want to grind 9k for those mechs now. The lower cost for items and upgrades are meaningless for those players when they are locked behind an even higher paywall. 

 

If the idea was to give the impression that all mechs are balanced and *not* pay2win, there are better ways to do it. You could make it so that the first 3 mechs that a player purchases cost about 3k each, regardless of what mech it is, while the next 3 mechs could cost 6k and so forth. 

That would give new players a good reason to stay a while longer, while those who are already hooked would have to progressively grind a bit more if they want to collect all the mechs. 

[BaronSaturday]

You just... Really don't get it at all.

Let me tryyyyyyyyyy and put it in simple terms.

No matter what I agreed to, it wasn't to keep playing, or paying for this game. The developers are the ones who need players money - me signing an EULA doesn't get them that. Warning players of changes that will fuzzy bunny them over would go a long way.

Alright? Simple enough? I'm the customer, and if the product is making me frustrated or upset, guess who doesn't get my money!

I really can't believe that this concept is so beyond so many people's reasoning capacity.

You're right. You don't have to pay for anything. I never said you did. I speak with my wallet, as should you. If I disagree with a change, I calmly type away about it giving the most productive feedback I can. To be frank, this was a change the game needed. Unified prices. And the prices are pretty fair considering that the company needs to make money. They need to make the grind tedious enough to convince people to buy things. I don't know why THIS concept is so hard for people to understand.

[DarkSpock]

They need to make the grind tedious enough to convince people to buy things.

 

 

That doesn't sound like the message that capnjosh had wanted to deliver from his statement.

 

The game can not survive with the current playerbase. It needs to be attractive enough to new players and slowly converting them to paying customers when they are hooked through cosmetics. Making the game grindier just to push people to pay for the basic stuff is practically the concept of pay2win.

[BaronSaturday]

That doesn't sound like the message that capnjosh had wanted to deliver from his statement.

The game can not survive with the current playerbase. It needs to be attractive enough to new players and slowly converting them to paying customers when they are hooked through cosmetics. Making the game grindier just to push people to pay for the basic stuff is practically the concept of pay2win.

Unfortunately all F2P games will have some level of P2W label attached to them. I'm not saying the system is perfect. I'm saying that it's a leap closer to what we need.

This is a short write up on what I think should be done.

Make the game cost $5. This will help discourage the hackers. Vastly improve customization. Vastly improve the grind. Make only cosmetics purchasable with cash. Create a ladder apart from the pub system. Create DLC that does not impact core game play. Campaigns, cosmetic packs. Every campaign pack will be made free after the next one is released. Create badges and rewards for those that buy the campaigns. Things like unique skins and chasis.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

You're right. You don't have to pay for anything. I never said you did. I speak with my wallet, as should you. If I disagree with a change, I calmly type away about it giving the most productive feedback I can. To be frank, this was a change the game needed. Unified prices. And the prices are pretty fair considering that the company needs to make money. They need to make the grind tedious enough to convince people to buy things. I don't know why THIS concept is so hard for people to understand.

 

Uh. Well. Uh. Golly gee. That's a tough one. Why is that concept so hard for people to... what is that word... gee. This is tricky.

 

Maybe because it's wrong.

 

There's no evidence to back that statement up, literally none, whereas there have been plenty of threads posted saying "the grind is too much, this is pointless, bye." Those are pieces of evidence that say "Hey, maybe the grind is causing some people to quit."

 

If Reloaded were to make each mech cost 400,000 HC, it wouldn't give a single person more incentive to buy the mech with real money instead. It would however give them incentive to go "lolfuzzy bunnythat" and tell their friends about how Hawken's pricing system is dumb.

 

But it sure as hell wouldn't make them buy it. So why exactly is it that Reloaded needs to make the grind tedious? Why is it that games like DotA and TF2 are F2P and make money without offering anything for purchase that alters gameplay?

Edited by TestHAWKEN001, 07 June 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[BaronSaturday]

Uh. Well. Uh. Golly gee. That's a tough one. Why is that concept so hard for people to... what is that word... gee. This is tricky.

 

Maybe because it's wrong.

 

There's no evidence to back that statement up, literally none, whereas there have been plenty of threads posted saying "the grind is too much, this is pointless, bye." Those are pieces of evidence that say "Hey, maybe the grind is causing some people to quit."

 

If Reloaded were to make each mech cost 400,000 HC, it wouldn't give a single person more incentive to buy the mech with real money instead. It would however give them incentive to go "lolfuzzy bunnythat" and tell their friends about how Hawken's pricing system is dumb.

 

But it sure as hell wouldn't make them buy it. So why exactly is it that Reloaded needs to make the grind tedious? Why is it that games like DotA and TF2 are F2P and make money without offering anything for purchase that alters gameplay?

 

 

Unfortunately all F2P games will have some level of P2W label attached to them. I'm not saying the system is perfect. I'm saying that it's a leap closer to what we need.

This is a short write up on what I think should be done.

Make the game cost $5. This will help discourage the hackers. Vastly improve customization. Vastly improve the grind. Make only cosmetics purchasable with cash. Create a ladder apart from the pub system. Create DLC that does not impact core game play. Campaigns, cosmetic packs. Every campaign pack will be made free after the next one is released. Create badges and rewards for those that buy the campaigns. Things like unique skins and chassis.

So now that that's cleared up, I'd like to point out that I didn't say it solved the problem.  I said it was closer than what we have.  You're still unreasonably mad about something you agreed to.  You can read it for yourself since you ignored it.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

So now that that's cleared up, I'd like to point out that I didn't say it solved the problem.  I said it was closer than what we have.  You're still unreasonably mad about something you agreed to.  You can read it for yourself since you ignored it.

wut

 

I just don't get what the hell it is you're even saying. You literally said that they should make the grind tedious, and somehow what you wrote in that quote makes that any less ridiculous?

[BaronSaturday]

wut

I just don't get what the hell it is you're even saying. You literally said that they should make the grind tedious, and somehow what you wrote in that quote makes that any less ridiculous?

No. I said, that in order to make money on the f2p model, the grind would need to be tedious. As to tf2 and any other game, this isn't those games. This game cannot run an identical model because the "upgrade" path is different. Things are inlocked in sequence. I honestly think you're just trolling. That or you've tied your ego to your opinion.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

No. I said, that in order to make money on the f2p model, the grind would need to be tedious. As to tf2 and any other game, this isn't those games. This game cannot run an identical model because the "upgrade" path is different. Things are inlocked in sequence. I honestly think you're just trolling. That or you've tied your ego to your opinion.

I honestly think you're stupid and that it's worthless to continue this conversation beyond this:

 

There is no evidence presented linking the success of F2P games to tedious grinds, yet you are telling me that for Hawken to be successful, its grind must be tedious. Your statement requires evidence, you claim a connection exists, and the burden of proof is on you, yet you provide none and prefer to insult people.

 

Sweet dreams.

Edited by TestHAWKEN001, 07 June 2015 - 09:58 PM.

[DieselCat]

I honestly think you're stupid and that it's worthless to continue this conversation beyond this:

 

There is no evidence presented linking the success of F2P games to tedious grinds, yet you are telling me that for Hawken to be successful, its grind must be tedious. Your statement requires evidence, you claim a connection exists, and the burden of proof is on you, yet you provide none and prefer to insult people.

 

Sweet dreams.

 

And what do you call this ? You should really think your thoughts out a bit more before you speak.....you have a right to your own opinion but trying to convince others that your's is correct and everyone else that disagrees with you is wrong...well that's wrong.

 

You plainly stated your unhappiness with the way the pay/price/grind system is set up...now please move the discussion on. The back and forth arguing is getting tiresome and disrupting the thread with you trying to prove a point.

 

*+ 

[BaronSaturday]

I honestly think you're stupid and that it's worthless to continue this conversation beyond this:

There is no evidence presented linking the success of F2P games to tedious grinds, yet you are telling me that for Hawken to be successful, its grind must be tedious. Your statement requires evidence, you claim a connection exists, and the burden of proof is on you, yet you provide none and prefer to insult people.

Sweet dreams.

SWtOR, TES, Tribes, APB, Crimecraft, Robocraft, Archage, Priston Tale, Priston Tale 2, PSO2. All free to play. All grindy as hell. All successful. In order to have a f2p model, all of these games have added a tedious grind and have been successful. That's 9 to your 2. I have many many more examples. Your 2 games are a luvky few when compared to the grand scope of f2p.

Also, if you caught feelings behind what I said, you may want to look at that.

Back to the top. This change is a net positive. Since you bought a Meech at 12K, when should they make the change? When should prices drop and be unified? Never? Because you bought a Meech at a higher price?

Edited by BaronSaturday, 08 June 2015 - 12:33 AM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

all the mech upgrades need to be cheaper to reflect this change

 

I still think it should be the other way around. I think newbies would prefer to get a new brand new shiny(ish) mech and try out the other ways how to play the game instead of getting a few minor stat effects for their mech that they cannot use/item that do not really change the game too much. It's basic knowledge that most players would prefer to see as much of the game as possible, with the least possible effort, than get a few upgrades for a few mechs which are will almost never affect them.

 

The previous system with different priced mechs is something that League of Legends uses, and I feel that would have been a massive incentive why Adhesive Games also did it.

[NRgyk64]

 I think newbies would prefer to get a new brand new shiny(ish) mech and try out the other ways how to play the game instead of getting a few minor stat effects for their mech that they cannot use/item that do not really change the game too much.

 

Exactly.

As a green horn, i can tell you that i prefer muuuuuuch more buy and test other mechs than just buy upgrades for the mechs i have already.

 

Cuz' new mechs,

It's versatility.

It's different ways to have fun.

It's choice.

 

It's just cool.

[6ixxer]

The benefit of the coupon would also be that no one mech is cheap. You use it to get the one YOU WANT cheap.

 

First mech 50% off puts it around the 4K HC that people want for an accessible mech.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

SWtOR, TES, Tribes, APB, Crimecraft, Robocraft, Archage, Priston Tale, Priston Tale 2, PSO2. All free to play. All grindy as hell. All successful. In order to have a f2p model, all of these games have added a tedious grind and have been successful. That's 9 to your 2. I have many many more examples. Your 2 games are a luvky few when compared to the grand scope of f2p.

Also, if you caught feelings behind what I said, you may want to look at that.

Back to the top. This change is a net positive. Since you bought a Meech at 12K, when should they make the change? When should prices drop and be unified? Never? Because you bought a Meech at a higher price?

Sorry mate, but AFAIK, pretty much none of those games are what I would call "successful " if the majority of the players jump ship on each of them.

[(Unknown)157a3decb342f5]

And what do you call this ? You should really think your thoughts out a bit more before you speak.....you have a right to your own opinion but trying to convince others that your's is correct and everyone else that disagrees with you is wrong...well that's wrong.

 

You plainly stated your unhappiness with the way the pay/price/grind system is set up...now please move the discussion on. The back and forth arguing is getting tiresome and disrupting the thread with you trying to prove a point.

 

So why don't you just go ahead and jump in then? We're all hypocrites on the internet. (PS, beyond the insults, you'll actually find a discussion on the grind and mech pricing that you're not contributing to)

 

SWtOR, TES, Tribes, APB, Crimecraft, Robocraft, Archage, Priston Tale, Priston Tale 2, PSO2. All free to play. All grindy as hell. All successful. In order to have a f2p model, all of these games have added a tedious grind and have been successful. That's 9 to your 2. I have many many more examples. Your 2 games are a luvky few when compared to the grand scope of f2p.

Also, if you caught feelings behind what I said, you may want to look at that.

Back to the top. This change is a net positive. Since you bought a Meech at 12K, when should they make the change? When should prices drop and be unified? Never? Because you bought a Meech at a higher price?

I cannot restrain my laughter.

 

And the fact that they exist is evidence that this particular choice they made is what makes them succesful?  Nnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

 

I looked up the playercount for most of these games, and at the very very best with the obvious exception of Star Wars (A fuzzy bunnyng mega-franchise, for which any single trait is bound to be an exception due to the series' hundreds of millions of screaming fans built over generations - and I still can't find accurate numbers, just making the assumption), they have about 3 times as many players as Hawken had ever had (just barely breaking 26,000 all time, currently averaging around 5,000) and the majority are around Hawken's level of playerbase if not lower. Any number that can accurately be compared to Hawken's playerbase really isn't that succesful.

 

So...

 

I mean... yeah?

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/113400

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/17080

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/38830

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/38810

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/304030

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/301520

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/306130

 

Clearly these are WILDLY successful.

 

I've never heard of Priston Tale, and steam hasn't either.

 

I mean, I half assed the research when I wrote the above, but after I actually looked up the results, I'm just happy as can be that you listed these games. Maybe you should revise your standpoint?

 

The prices should drop, period. I'm just annoyed they didn't give any real warning, and it fuzzy bunnyed me over particularly hard. I haven't played since the internal and item prices dropped though, so maybe it really does balance out, but that doesn't change the fact that you arguing for a tedious grind is stupid.

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/570

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/440

 

2-0. But good try.

 

Also, if you caught feelings behind what I said, you may want to look at that.

I did! I did! I caught the feeling of sheer unadulterated joy! It's like candy from a baby, without the guilt!

Edited by TestHAWKEN001, 08 June 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[BaronSaturday]

So why don't you just go ahead and jump in then? We're all hypocrites on the internet. (PS, beyond the insults, you'll actually find a discussion on the grind and mech pricing that you're not contributing to)

 

I cannot restrain my laughter.

 

And the fact that they exist is evidence that this particular choice they made is what makes them succesful?  Nnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

 

I looked up the playercount for most of these games, and at the very very best with the obvious exception of Star Wars (A fuzzy bunnyng mega-franchise, for which any single trait is bound to be an exception due to the series' hundreds of millions of screaming fans built over generations - and I still can't find accurate numbers, just making the assumption), they have about 3 times as many players as Hawken had ever had (just barely breaking 26,000 all time, currently averaging around 5,000) and the majority are around Hawken's level of playerbase if not lower. Any number that can accurately be compared to Hawken's playerbase really isn't that succesful.

 

So...

 

I mean... yeah?

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/113400

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/17080

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/38830

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/38810

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/304030

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/301520

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/306130

 

Clearly these are WILDLY successful.

 

I've never heard of Priston Tale, and steam hasn't either.

 

I mean, I half assed the research when I wrote the above, but after I actually looked up the results, I'm just happy as can be that you listed these games. Maybe you should revise your standpoint?

 

The prices should drop, period. I'm just annoyed they didn't give any real warning, and it fuzzy bunnyed me over particularly hard. I haven't played since the internal and item prices dropped though, so maybe it really does balance out, but that doesn't change the fact that you arguing for a tedious grind is stupid.

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/570

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/440

 

2-0. But good try.

 

 

I did! I did! I caught the feeling of sheer unadulterated joy! It's like candy from a baby, without the guilt!

You are aware that almost all of those games have launchers outside of steam?  Steam isn't the be all end all of PC gaming.  Priston Tale not being on Steam does not detract from it being one of the longest running MMOs to ever exist.  I think the only two above it would be Ultima online and Everquest.  Besides that, if this game had 5k players regularly, I don't think anyone would be complaining about it's success.  How you measure success and how realistic that is seems a little wonkers to me.  You're listing the WoWs of gaming and implying that if these games aren't as successful as the biggest games on the planet, then they aren't successful at all.  So I'll give you 9-3.

And yes, they should drop.  I don't disagree.  In fact, we agree on most points here save for two.  Whether or not your complaint is justified, and how tedious the grind should be.  I like a high grind.  I like working hard for things.  It makes everything I buy a reward.  Does that make it right?  No.  Whether the grind in it's current form is okay is a matter of contention, but we're on the same side of the fence.  I want a grind, just not this one.  I would be happy at 5.5k per mech and internals where they are now.  Then vastly improving cosmetics and making those the only things we can buy.  Just for clarification.

Edited by BaronSaturday, 08 June 2015 - 03:12 PM.