90 replies to this topic

[Silverfire]

Either mech prices drop or HC earnings go up. Pick one?

And a tweak to HC earnings in general could be in order.

[System64]

That's happening, Silverfire. Talked to Josh a little while about that, he was actually shocked by how much HC I got regarding that analysis/rant with the Co Op Bot destruction match I had, since he had actually considered all the work our team had done, and the rising difficulty of the battle. He said that the HC system will definitely have changes made to it for all modes (he made BD a high priority, I think).

Edited by ??�?�؃??, 09 June 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[DM30]

I still think it should be the other way around. I think newbies would prefer to get a new brand new shiny(ish) mech and try out the other ways how to play the game instead of getting a few minor stat effects for their mech that they cannot use/item that do not really change the game too much. It's basic knowledge that most players would prefer to see as much of the game as possible, with the least possible effort, than get a few upgrades for a few mechs which are will almost never affect them.

 

Can't say that this makes sense to me. If something has a small impact on gameplay, why should it cost more? That really seems backwards.

 

When I was still buying mechs, my single biggest point of frustration was the fact that even once I had finished grinding out enough credits to buy the mech I wanted, I knew I still had a long grind ahead of me to fully equip it. Any sense of accomplishment I got from finally buying the mech was doused immediately because I hadn't really accomplished my goal. It felt more like I had only checked off a prerequisite. Trying out builds and picking internals and items wasn't something I felt like I could enjoy now that I actually HAD the mech. It was a chore that I had to finish to make the mech feel complete. This would be made worse if mechs cost less and equipment cost more, not better.

 

Now that items and internals have had their prices cut, I feel like the relative balance between mechs and upgrades is in a relatively decent place. The outstanding problem is earnings now, so that's what I think the devs should be looking at.

[CounterlogicMan]

Now that the prices of mechs, weapons, and internals are at a sane amount. We can now talk about progression and hc income. This is important because Hawken is a competitive shooter going for a hardcore audience. Hardcore players don't have fun when they lose. We are already aware of the reality that is the poor new player experience of losing 3/4 of their games. They also don't have fun when they have to grind a lot while losing. There is also a lot of games competing for hardcore fps players attention these days. So it is important that players feel like they are making a difference in their progression each game.

 

 

HC gain in hawken compared to what things cost is pretty low. Even with the new prices. I understand that the devs want to drive the demand of the hc boosts. But being able to watch yourself make tangible progress means a lot to players. Especially new ones who don't have a lot of content unlocked. If a player feels like they aren't making progress towards their goal fast enough in relation to how much fun they are having vs this same relation in another game, then they will just go play another game.

 

The goal in free to play games is to increase the life cycle of new players so they are in the game longer and are exposed more often to payable alternatives to grinding as well as cosmetics. Tangible progress, fun, and cosmetics/aesthetics is what makes people keep coming back. If the payable alternative or grind is to much players will give up and decide they will have more fun making progress in another one of the many many f2p games out there.

 

Capnjosh just nailed it on reducing prices across the board. As we all know prices in Hawken have been ludicrous for so long. Driving a lot of players out of the game early in the life cycle because the grind is too much for only winning 1 out of 4 games on average. The other half of this is hc income. It is very very low. 

 

I propose a ~25-30% increase to hc income from matches in order to make the grind become more palatable to new players. Players will unlock more stuff more often. Which some could see as a bad thing. However the change I feel would be enough to make players feel like they are actually making tangible progress towards their next mech. Also considering what dm30 said, this would make players able to kit out their mechs more easily. Something that would make the pay 2 win feeling diminish more as players would be able to see how players are able to gain these internals/items after a few games for each internal/item. On top of that if the player got an HC boost then they would be getting a new internal/item after every game or two.

 

Everyone loves unlocking new things in f2p games. When you unlock something you want to play with it, test it, show it off, etc. At its core f2p games are all about unlocking new things and balancing the paid alternative against that in a way that it is a reasonable option for those with disposable income. With the market so saturated, hardcore fps players attention so split, and Hawkens new player experience problems. I think the devs should go a little farther than just reducing prices of mechs/internals. They should be a little more liberal with the hc gains in order to give new players an incentive to stay with Hawken. Gamers love progress.

 

-sry about grammar/repeat edits prolly just gonna make this its own thread for discussion due to length

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 10 June 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[PoopSlinger]

I can kit out mechs so fuzzy bunnyng cheap now.  Its awesome.  Its ok that mechs are more expensive because I now don't have to pay 5K+ for a different primary weapon.  I like it.  Having a variety of weapons and internals for cheap is worth even the brawler price increase.

[MomOw]

I agree, new items and alternate weapons pricing is good.

[claisolais]

In case you guys havent noticed, internal and item are advanced stuff--not all NEW ppl will gear up their Fred or assault to the teeth, and use them accordingly.
It took me many hours to figure out what are items and internals and how to use/choose them, I blam the old training, but teaching too much as the vr training is doing will not be much difference.
This is a FPS game guys, new ppl are willing and expecting to see new guns on their hands not new grenades or drones or whatever.
You may expecting them to learn this game fast, or you push them to, but it will not go as you will. Coz they are new, and you're not.

[claisolais]

In case you guys havent noticed, internal and item are advanced stuff--not all NEW ppl will gear up their Fred or assault to the teeth, and use them accordingly.
It took me many hours to figure out what are items and internals and how to use/choose them, I blam the old training, but teaching too much as the vr training is doing will not be much difference.
This is a FPS game guys, new ppl are willing and expecting to see new guns on their hands not new grenades or drones or whatever.
You may expecting them to learn this game fast, or you push them to, but it will not go as you will. Coz they are new, and you're not.
sry about the double reply, my internet sucks, it stucks when sending reply.

Edited by claisolais, 10 June 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[sabrehawk90]

Man, what I miss for going inactive. Should probably get back into Hawken sometime, interesting things seem to be happening. From what it seems like, decking out a mech will finally not be 3 times as expensive as getting the actual mech.

[Drusus]

Just a question on this subject for my fellow players:

 

Is there any merit to the distinction where, in order to support the needs on the part of Hawken to have things to sell and to make it so that HC and MC are meaningfully different in terms of their value and application, but the end items they provide are balanced and the same for purposes of gameplay value we go the route of :

 

HC - unlock the aesthetic component/item/internal for THIS mech and only this Mech (as it is now)

MC - unlock the aesthetic component/item/internal for ALL mechs where it may be applied.

 

One thing that has been nagging at me since I returned wasn't just the HC rate of gain versus pricing model, but that the differentiation between MC and HC was simply not especially compelling, relying on HC just being 'worthless' in the original model due to the time investment needed per mech.  

 

Driving people to the purchased currency through punitive measures will (and did, apparently) fail spectacularly.  

 

Demonstrating a value add by using purchased currency strikes me as a better route forward.

 

I have to believe this was suggested in past but as the forums were seemingly reset, I can't verify that to any degree.

 

I'm all for HC being useful and meaningful but I recognize that MC (and thereby profitability) is also important.  I also, in interest of full disclosure, advocate F2P currency systems that still fix the yield of spend in a game to reasonable amounts and NOT infinite spends, expressly because I believe it promotes better game and customer relationship options.  This model would indeed fix the spend to a theoretical max (i.e. you've bought all the bits) but not a LOW theoretical maximum and still offer a blend point where HC and MC work together towards more player choices and options.  

 

This of course ignores Boosters as an element of purchase but if you're like me, these are never appealing in the first place expressly because they are a point of infinite spend to acquire a thing already of dubious value, namely paying more to play less, ultimately if you are at all driven by progression elements.

 

This kind of approach has merits in this regard and the inclusion of cosmetics is not accidental, as Cosmetics offer a clear continuous purchase path for both currency types that refreshes value for all prior existing purchases (and would be hella expensive to buy the 'new camo' for each and every mech you own with HC, theoretically, just due to repetitious purchase needs, making MC still a competitive option).

 

While I believe the game will benefit from the pending balance overhaul, I'm glad to see effort being placed into sensibly tackling the currency systems at work as well.

 

Hope this offers some food for thought that is useful for the Cap'n and crew and I am looking forward to seeing their actions going forward.

Edited by Drusus, 19 June 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

-snip-

Help me, I can't stop laughing. Necroing is not a crime.

Edited by DallasCreeper, 28 January 2016 - 02:22 PM.