64 replies to this topic

[WillyW]

that keyboard's game section is the spitting image of my old z-boards

 

That's because SteelSeries bought Ideazon, which was the company who made the old z-boards. There is actually an original version of my keyboard, also called the Ideazon Merc. And a separate gamepad called the Ideazon Fang. Steelseries literally just took the entire design and put their name on it.

 

 

[WillyW]

As promised... excuse my messy desk.

 

 

 

 

[XPloyt]

 

Scuf 360 Hybrid

 

Having the back paddles makes multi-tasking way easier, allowing to use functions much more smoothly without taking thumbs off joysticks.

 

The domed right stick improves accuracy, and the rubber grips help maintain it. It doesn't look like this controller has the the grips on it, but the outlines on the back where your hands go can optionally be rubber(which is what I have), or you can go a step further and get the whole back sprayed with a rubber coating.

 

The mod Scuf does to the triggers to make them a sliver away from being pressed in makes them that much more useful, killing most input delay.

 

I think this controller bumped me up from an avg. of 2100 to 2300 mmr, which is now pre-BenQ.

Edited by XPloyt, 09 June 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[DryLeaves]

 

Scuf 360 Hybrid

 

Having the back paddles makes multi-tasking way easier, allowing to use functions much more smoothly without taking thumbs off joysticks.

 

The domed right stick improves accuracy, and the rubber grips help maintain it. It doesn't look like this controller has the the grips on it, but the outlines on the back where your hands go can optionally be rubber(which is what I have), or you can go a step further and get the whole back sprayed with a rubber coating.

 

The mod Scuf does to the triggers to make them a sliver away from being pressed in makes them that much more useful, killing most input delay.

 

I think this controller bumped me up from an avg. of 2100 to 2300 mmr, which is now pre-BenQ.

 

Does this mean that Xbox can win PC? People grow on the assumption that KB+M >>> controller on FPS games, how do u explain it?

Edited by DryLeaves, 10 June 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[WillyW]

Does this mean that Xbox can win PC? People grow on the assumption that KB+M >>> controller on FPS games, how do u explain it?

No. Never. A mouse is way too accurate to be anywhere close to a controller joystick. However, the new Steam controller might flip that idea upside down with the improved touchpad instead of a joystick.

[wolfrock]

Rosewill RK-9000BRI, a white mechanical keyboard with black keys, one of the cheapest on the market. It's really good for typing but as far as gaming goes, it doesn't offer any advantage. Instills fear onto teammates who think I'm slaughtering my keyboard.

It's a good keyboard and basically a rebranded Filco. I have one in all black that I got for $50 with Cherry blacks and it's smooth, accurate and feels good. I changed the giant braided USB cable for a thinner, more flexible one I had lying around. Users have reported the stiff cable it comes with puts too much strain on the USB port which eventually breaks off the keyboard's PCB.

[wolfrock]

TangledMantis your setup works great for GTA V, drive and run around with the gamepad and then shoot w the mouse when things get shooty.

[TangledMantis]

TangledMantis your setup works great for GTA V, drive and run around with the gamepad and then shoot w the mouse when things get shooty.

That wasnt me. Im kb+m

[PsychedelicGrass]

I use a cyborg rat 7 mouse and the cheapest keyboard i could find

[WillyW]

I'm extremely curious about these so-called cheap keyboards and mice. Post pics of your hardware people! I don't care how old it is... if anything, that makes it cooler imo.

[Silverfire]

Microsoft Intellimouse Optical + my generic mousepad

 

 

Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 (not my desk or picture but it's what it looks like)

 

Edited by Silverfire, 10 June 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[XPloyt]

Does this mean that Xbox can win PC? People grow on the assumption that KB+M >>> controller on FPS games, how do u explain it?

It comes mostly from a place of bias and inferiority. A mouse is technically more precise - if I own a sniper rifle, does that make me a marksman?

Oh, and can "Xbox win PC"? You're darn right it can! 

I'm actually not sure what you were trying to say here. If you were saying if there was cross-play between Xbox and PC, that it would be possible to be competitive with PC players on an Xbox, I would say "yeah" with a game like Hawken, as long as the controller doesn't limit the necessities needed to play...which is why I went from a regular 360 controller to the Scuf.

[Nept]

It comes mostly from a place of bias and inferiority. A mouse is technically more precise - if I own a sniper rifle, does that make me a marksman?

Oh, and can "Xbox win PC"? You're darn right it can! 

I'm actually not sure what you were trying to say here. If you were saying if there was cross-play between Xbox and PC, that it would be possible to be competitive with PC players on an Xbox, I would say "yeah" with a game like Hawken, as long as the controller doesn't limit the necessities needed to play...which is why I went from a regular 360 controller to the Scuf.

 

Honestly, it's based more on truth than "bias and inferiority".  The fact that some controller users can beat some mouse users doesn't mean that the former doesn't have hard skill ceiling limitations.  A few shooter games have attempted console and PC integration, and they've always a) failed miserably or b) abandoned the idea during development.  Why?  Because during testing, controller users were always at a disadvantage - even "pro" console gamers vs. mediocre PC gamers: http://www.gamesrada...doo-pc-founder/

 

So what are these skill ceiling limits?

1. Controllers are inherently less precise because you've fewer points of actuation.  Aiming with a controller means aiming with your thumb, which offers you less precision than aiming with your fingers (and thumb) and wrist (high mouse sens) or wrist and elbow and shoulder (low mouse sens).
2. Controllers cannot replicate the fast twitches made by top-tier FPS players.  Aiming with a controller involves pushing the thumbstick and waiting for the reticle to reach your opponent.   In other words, there's a delay.  Mouse aiming speeds are limited only by the speed of your hand/wrist/shoulder movement, and can be almost instant.  Observe the following shot, for instance: https://youtu.be/O2W0s0ukdfo?t=1m46s

Full video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=O2W0s0ukdfo

 

Not sufficient?  Have some more!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By6ACGPZ0To

 

It is literally impossible to perform (remotely) similarly with a controller.

 

In the overwhelming majority of PC FPS games, controllers cannot compete past low-level pub play.  That being said, Hawken controller users don't experience quite the same disadvantages.  Why?  Hawken's turn-rate cap prevents players from twitching instantly to targets, which means that everyone experiences the lag time that's usually limited to the controller aiming process.  There are still disadvantages, of course.  The precision disadvantage, although eased by the turn-rate cap, is still there.  And mouse-using Sharpshooter/Reaper players experience dramatically reduced turn-rate caps when they're scoped and firing at long-range targets.

 

I would not recommend playing Hawken with a controller - at least not if you're attempting to play at your maximum potential.  My team has won both TPG seasons, and not a single member would consider using a controller; we even have a few who played console games competitively.  If you're just looking to have fun, though, and prefer using a controller, knock yourself out.  It's certainly more viable than it would be in other shooters.

Edited by Nept, 10 June 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[thirtysix]

I use a joystick for control rather than keyboard. It might put me at a slight disadvantage in regards to input lag, however, I conclude that my keyboard mashing put me at a much bigger disadvantage, and joysticks are fun.

 

Mouse for aim and shoot, which is a razer deathadder. Not because its a deathadder, it was on special and had a thumb button that my previous mouse was lacking.

 

EDIT: I got my brother into hawken and he also found that keyboard didn't feel right for him. After trying with my joystick he had much more fun. The controls suddenly seemed more intuitive to him (as they had for me). I gave him a hawken mech bundle and joystick for his birthday as I knew he liked it but wouldn't justify the cost otherwise.

 

Same mouse but lefty. Joystick is Logitech 3d Pro Extreme.

What dpi do you have your mouse set at, had to down mine to 1200.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

 

I used to use a 2012 naga. It baffles me how some people don't understand how insanely beneficial it can be to have that many resources available to your thumb. My config philosophy has always been to take my fingers off the movement keys as little as possible, so the naga is just super clutch in games where you have anywhere from 4-10 guns to choose from at any time, or any other number of non movement actions.

 

 

Finally, a voice of reason in all this darkness. But you're still a fuzzy bunny because the Logitech G600 is better by your very own line of logic - that being that it adds a whole new finger to the play to free up your other ones.

[BaronSaturday]

What's a controller?

[HepTagoN]

What's a controller?

Babe dont mouse me, dont mouse me. No more.

Edited by HepTagoN, 11 June 2015 - 03:48 AM.

[XPloyt]

Honestly, it's based more on truth than "bias and inferiority".  The fact that some controller users can beat some mouse users doesn't mean that the former doesn't have hard skill ceiling limitations.  A few shooter games have attempted console and PC integration, and they've always a) failed miserably or b) abandoned the idea during development.  Why?  Because during testing, controller users were always at a disadvantage - even "pro" console gamers vs. mediocre PC gamers: http://www.gamesrada...doo-pc-founder/

 

So what are these skill ceiling limits?

1. Controllers are inherently less precise because you've fewer points of actuation.  Aiming with a controller means aiming with your thumb, which offers you less precision than aiming with your fingers (and thumb) and wrist (high mouse sens) or wrist and elbow and shoulder (low mouse sens).
2. Controllers cannot replicate the fast twitches made by top-tier FPS players.  Aiming with a controller involves pushing the thumbstick and waiting for the reticle to reach your opponent.   In other words, there's a delay.  Mouse aiming speeds are limited only by the speed of your hand/wrist/shoulder movement, and can be almost instant.  Observe the following shot, for instance: https://youtu.be/O2W0s0ukdfo?t=1m46s

Full video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=O2W0s0ukdfo

 

Not sufficient?  Have some more!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By6ACGPZ0To

 

It is literally impossible to perform (remotely) similarly with a controller.

 

In the overwhelming majority of PC FPS games, controllers cannot compete past low-level pub play.  That being said, Hawken controller users don't experience quite the same disadvantages.  Why?  Hawken's turn-rate cap prevents players from twitching instantly to targets, which means that everyone experiences the lag time that's usually limited to the controller aiming process.  There are still disadvantages, of course.  The precision disadvantage, although eased by the turn-rate cap, is still there.  And mouse-using Sharpshooter/Reaper players experience dramatically reduced turn-rate caps when they're scoped and firing at long-range targets.

 

I would not recommend playing Hawken with a controller - at least not if you're attempting to play at your maximum potential.  My team has won both TPG seasons, and not a single member would consider using a controller; we even have a few who played console games competitively.  If you're just looking to have fun, though, and prefer using a controller, knock yourself out.  It's certainly more viable than it would be in other shooters.

 

You pretty much reinforced what I said and elaborated on it:

 

Mice are more precise - I say that, and I say "technically" because it's subjective to the person using it as to whether or not they can maximize the potential. There are more factors, and of course the game we're talking about is Hawken, with it's emphasis on maneuverability and it's turn-rate cap.

 

The "console vs. PC" article you presented, is an interview with the founder of a PC hardware brand owned by HP about a cross-play project they weren't even a part of; a heavily biased opinion piece - to paraphrase the article: "PC gamers: serious business; console gamers: set-and-forget" While I can agree that, in general, a mouse is the superior component for precision aiming over a controller thumbstick, this article does not detail or answer any specifics as to why or how the mouse is superior(granted it's about the kb+m combo, but I digress as I don't believe the kb means that much more in Hawken). The article is all hearsay, and is a bad example to use for your probably unintended elaboration. 

 

You can argue that a person using a mouse can react quicker and be more precise because of using more muscles and ligaments to control their aim, but it's still relative to the sensitivity settings and the player wielding the peripheral -  that's all I'm selling.

[Nept]

You're stressing the individual skill variations but ignoring the hard skill ceiling limits.  You cannot competently compete using a controller in the vast majority of PC shooters.  If you were to record gameplay within those shooters - anything from Unreal Tournament to Counterstrike - the disadvantages would be immediately apparent.  Could you beat low-tier pubs?  Probably.  Anything beyond?  Almost definitely not. 

 

Hawken, because of its turn-rate cap, is different - albeit not entirely.

Edited by Nept, 11 June 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[BaronSaturday]

You're stressing the individual skill variations but ignoring the hard skill ceiling limits. You cannot competently compete using a controller in the vast majority of PC shooters. If you were to record gameplay within those shooters - anything from Unreal Tournament to Counterstrike - the disadvantages would be immediately apparent. Could you beat low-tier pubs? Probably. Anything beyond? Almost definitely not.

Hawken, because of its turn-rate cap, is different - albeit not entirely.

I'm not sure if it is that different. Now, the turn cap does, in fact, help close the gap, but I cannot stress how important fine detail is in HAWKEN. The turn cap doesn't start right away. It's imposed somewhere close to .5 seconds or so. All competitive gamers know how important every fraction of a second is. This explanation is less directed at Nept, but rather the controller enthusiast.

[XPloyt]

 The turn cap doesn't start right away. It's imposed somewhere close to .5 seconds or so. All competitive gamers know how important every fraction of a second is. 

 

Interesting. This is all news to me, but that makes sense considering I'm an ignorant casual-console fuzzy bunny and I'm using an inferior peripheral and all. 

 

It's ok. I said it. 

 

Plus, I have time to be annoying when I can't play because I need a few players within my bracket to be in a game so I can join in on the fun.

Edited by XPloyt, 11 June 2015 - 06:13 PM.

[6ixxer]

what joystick do you use, i ordered the thrustmaster t16000 m (still waiting for delivery) i hate the keyboard for control , i find it difficult to dodge

 

Saitek Cyborg V1 flightstick

 

Chosen for ambidexterous grip and adequate buttons. The Madcat software allows all sorts of customisation with shift modes, but I don't use shift options.

 

Edited by 6ixxer, 14 July 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[6ixxer]

most joysticks I found were either for right hand use only or had too few shaft buttons, supplementing with buttons on base forcing to let go of controls.

 

using joystick left-handed is similar to the person using a sony controller for lefty. Except joystick uses more gross motor skill.

 

I can use this and generally only touch my keyboard for chat.

 

Shaft uses driver to convert axis to bands.

then the bands are interpreted as WASD.

twist shaft is mouse horizontal axis for yaw.

trigger is boost. pinky is hover.

 

Thumb buttons from leftmost going anticlockwise are:

spot, assistance, repair, ability, item

centre pov hat left-right swaps items.

 

I don't use the analogue throttle on base as I would have to let go.

Pov hat has some spare directions I was thinking of binding emotes, etc

Edited by 6ixxer, 11 June 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[OdinTheWise]

[manthi]

Saitek Cybork V1 flightstick

 

Chosen for ambidexterous grip and adequate buttons. The Madcat software allows all sorts of customisation with shift modes, but I don't use shift options.

 

 

ok thanks for the input,

 i finally received my thrustmaster t16000m

 

but it was kind of a nightmare to make it work, at first when i plugged it in and started the game,

the joystick was detected, but the view was spining up and left nonstop, so it was unplayable,

took me like 4 hours of search and test to finally come up with a setup that was working

what i did was removing any xbox parameters from the hawkeninput.ini to remove the spinning, then using joytokey sofftware for binding x/y axis to wasd

 

now it working fine, but i have a different problem, i still use the mouse for aiming and shooting, but for some reason, i instinctively try to aim with the joystick instead of the mouse, so my performance decrease

Edited by manthi, 14 July 2015 - 09:23 AM.