I've debated writing this post for awhile now – mostly because I can't pretend that frustration isn't my primary motivator. This post will appear pedantic and arrogant, regardless of my wording. If you didn't like me before, you certainly won't now; and if you thought me a pleasant person (hah), this post might shred the veil. If the source of my frustration is any indicator, though, insight into Omni's operations will be useful to anyone contemplating competitive play.
The Omniscient and its members have won every Hawken event we've attended. Convincingly. The only exception was an early duel tournament where (now Omni) Xacius defeated Leonhardt and his retarded mech selection. We've won, through three TPG seasons, every championship, all of our playoff games, and all but one of our regular/pre-season matches.
Throughout this time, we've seen opponents misconstrue our overarching approach to competitive play. This isn't new – indeed, I've written almost this same post every time we've left a game – but it remains annoying. To be clear, I don't care that people question our abilities, and I'm neither expecting nor hoping that people perceive Omni as god's gift to Hawken. It's a game. We get that. However, I want the community to understand how we operate and why we've done well.
In General
The Omniscient are a group of competitively-oriented friends who've taken top honours across ladders and leagues in various games. We gravitate toward fast-paced shooters with high skill ceilings, but we've also played seriously the occasional MMO. In large part, we simply prefer fast-paced games and their emphasis on mechanical skill and rapid cognitive processing. However, there's also a strategic component behind our selections: higher mechanical skill ceilings mean wider skill gaps between players – skill gaps that aren't dependent on knowledge and experience. As such, we don't require tons of time to become competitive, and are free to focus on our studies and our jobs.
For example, assuming we've the requisite mechanical skills, we could waltz into Unreal Tournament instagib CTF and dominate the competition. Our mechanical skills wouldn't carry nearly so far in League of Legends, however, so we'd have to plunge many more hours into the game before becoming competitive.
Omni recruits purposefully
Spoiler
We've two main recruitment considerations: 1) Does the player possess potential enough to be top-tier within whatever game we're playing; and 2) Does the player's personality mesh well with Omni's approach and our existing members?
Potential:Potential comprises things like reaction times, mouse control (twitching, tracking), spatial awareness, information processing ability, analytical ability, and emotional control. Confusing potential with knowledge and experience (or ignoring it outright) can cause problems for captains. Since in-game experience can overcome (for awhile, anyway) reaction time or mouse control disadvantages, longtime community members can seem significantly better, mechanically-speaking, than they actually are. Eventually, though, everyone gains this experience – and then mechanical skills start shining through.
Personality:Certain personalities are conducive to rapid improvement. Others are not. Many people hate losing, but only some of them channel that frustration into improvement. Most opt instead for ego-protection mechanisms, creating for themselves excuses or avoiding challenging situations entirely. Guess which personalities you want on your team? And since there's little point spending time with people you can't stand, we also ensure that recruits mesh well with existing members.
Contrary to popular belief, Omni recruited very few established players. The turnrate cap dissuaded many of our existing members, so we entered with only myself, OmniStone, and Filt3r (who soon dropped for work-related reasons). I recruited hestoned after pubbing regularly against him, and Leonhardt followed shortly thereafter. Climatic approached us after failing to secure a starting position on BSB's HFC, IAreDave was recruited after a month or two of pub play, and 7r1p's an old Omni that we dragged into Hawken out of necessity. Of our two established recruits, Xacius secured his position only after improving his mouse control and his attitude, while devotion was a relative unknown who knew Dave, and who I'd happened to encounter once in pubs.
With an exception or two, Omni didn't recruit the established best. Through a combination of personality, potential, training, and personal effort, our players became the established best.
Omni expects – and trains – our members to be the best players in whichever game we're playing. We also train efficiently.
Spoiler
Team Mentality:Regardless of which FPS we're playing, Omni prioritizes DM'ing, paying special attention to our members' capacity for rapidly and accurately acquiring targets. Every member is expected to reach top-tier DM'ing/dueling status because having better shooters – in a shooter – is important. Having better shooters also opens more tactical and strategic options.
Should certain members reach top-tier status before their teammates, they're expected to help with training. Intra-team competitions and rivalries are encouraged, but only so long as they remain constructive. Our players are also discouraged from placing people on pedestals. In other words, people within Omni aren't easily impressed; you'll never find them assuming that another player's abilities are unique or unattainable. In the moment you deem another person's abilities otherworldly, you're placing arbitrary limiters on your personal development.
Finally, we encourage accurate self-analysis and careful consideration of criticism. Ever wonder why some people learn more quickly than others? Although we immediately assume natural talent, the difference often stems from their ability to analyze their performance and address problem areas – to learn more mindfully and effectively. The upsurge in streaming and youtube uploading has made this process simpler, as we can now watch someone's recordings and immediately assess issues. Has streamlined the recruiting process as well.
Training Methods and Time Allocation:
Our training ensured that we effectively and efficiently targeted the mechanical skills underlying the aforementioned shooting and DM'ing. Rather than dueling to the death, we frequently acted as targets for our teammates – a training strategy that allowed us to quickly address weaknesses. An Omni running Heat Cannon or SAARE, for instance, was expected to reliably strike airborne opponents; providing dedicated AC Berserker targets allowed for much quicker skill development than duels. It's also worth noting that we expected our players to reliably strike the most difficult shots they might encounter. That means airborne, dodging targets for projectile weapons, CQC and mid-range shots for snipers, and continuous tracing against fast opponents for sustain.
Once we were satisfied with our aim, we moved onto small-group coordination. Omni frequently ran 3v3's and 3v4's with players distributed as they might find themselves during matches. Our heavies (Leonhardt, hestoned, OmniStone, and devotion) would hold areas against our A's and B's, focusing on effective rotation and communication. Members were also taught to make intelligent, independent decisions that meshed well with our overarching strategies. As a result, all of our players were capable of leading small groups, or even the team at large. This redundancy ensured that we were very rarely caught flatfooted, even if our primary shot-caller were incapacitated.
During our first couple TPG seasons, we were enthusiastic about Hawken; most of our members played frequently, and all were top-tier with a myriad of mechs. As interest waned, however, we began streamlining practices and specializing – a decision that allowed us to preserve skillsets with minimal time commitments. By allocating practice time efficiently (3-6 hours a week), we were able to win comfortably while taking long breaks from the game.
Omni attempts to avoid cognitive biases
Spoiler
Cognitive biases describe common deficiencies in thought, deviations from reality within our perceptions and judgments. Many exist, but we'll be focusing on several cognitive biases that protect self-esteem. We have seen and/or heard these biases on so many occasions, and from so many teams and individuals. I list them now not to be a fuzzy bunny, but because they've prevented many players from accurately assessing and addressing their weaknesses. Being aware of these few biases might even help you IRL.
Fundamental Attribution Error (FAE), the Actor-Observer Effect, and Self-Serving Bias:When explaining another person's behaviour, we often over-emphasize personal factors while de-emphasizing situational factors. If someone steals food, for example, our immediate assumption is that they're morally deficient. It's only after our initial judgment that we (sometimes) review situational factors. Conversely, we attribute too much to these situational factors when describing our own behaviour. Combined, these two tendencies are described by the Actor-Observer Effect. Our attributions are further skewed through our attempts to enhance self-esteem. In what's termed Self-Serving Bias, we avoid personal responsibility by attributing failure to situational factors; success, though, is unduly attributed to our own efforts and traits.
Put simply, we're bad at making attributions. We ignore situational factors when explaining the behaviour of others, and over-emphasize them while explaining our own. Add to that our tendency to interpret events in the most ego-boosting way possible, and you've a pretty poor recipe for self-improvement.
But what does that look like in the context of gaming? Omni tends to take extended breaks from our competitive games. When we return, we're rusty. We'll organize scrims, and our scrim partners almost invariably attribute their improved performance to personal factors: they've improved as a team, they're now better duelists, they're running better strats. Our deteriorated state is given only minor consideration, if any. Conversely, these teams are very quick to mention their own rustiness. And when they encounter a practiced Omni team, out come the excuses: poor hit registration, graphics lag, network lag, slightly different team compositions, etc. Ability gaps are rarely recognized, and credit is rarely given. Again, not a Hawken-specific thing.
Self-Handicapping:Let's return briefly to rust. It's good to recognize that you're rusty, as it places the onus for improvement squarely on your shoulders. However, you have to clear that rust; it's not a perpetual excuse. Unfortunately, that's what it often becomes through Self-Handicapping – a process whereby players and teams make excuses in anticipation of failure. “The reason people do this is simple. By admitting to a limited physical or mental weakness, they can shield themselves from what could be the most shattering implication of failure – a lack of ability” (Brehm, Kassin, & Fein, 2005). In other words, failing through lack of effort – or through extenuating circumstances – is preferable to failing through lack of ability.
Sounds weird, I know, but people self-handicap quite regularly. Procrastinating or avoiding practice establishes an easy self-esteem “out” if we've little confidence in our performance. Omni has seen on several occasions teams that listed rustiness as their reason for losing. They made no efforts to clear that rust, though, and eventually used their ready-made excuse to protect their self-esteem. “We could've won if we had tried,” they claim.
Confirmation Bias
Confirmation bias describes our tendency to seek and interpret information in ways which confirm existing beliefs. The more deeply-held our beliefs, the greater our tendency toward confirmation bias – and the more vehement our denial of contradictory evidence. As you might imagine, this presents enormous obstacles to rational discussion about anything remotely important. In the gaming world, this bias presents itself through self-serving skill comparisons. Because players pick and choose and interpret their encounters, vulturing a couple kills becomes, “I dominated this player,” while winning a 2v1 becomes, “I regularly beat that player”.
Dunning-Kruger Effect
From Wikipedia, “The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately.” Good Ole Dunning-Kruger. Think we've all witnessed this one.
Avoiding Cognitive Biases
How do you avoid these cognitive biases? First, be aware of them. Recognize that we're all susceptible. Second, reconsider your first instinct whenever you've performed poorly. Often, these first thoughts revolve around preserving self-esteem and distancing yourself from responsibility. Always consider poor performances your fault, as that places them within your realm of control.
Every time an Omni team has performed poorly, we've sat down and candidly discussed the contributing factors. We're careful to avoid any ego-protection mechanisms, and we're careful to avoid blaming individuals. Lost games are never the result of one missed shot, one bad call, or even one player's poor performance. If you're dominating your MA opponent by 800 points, someone flubbing a duel isn't going to cost anything. Never be satisfied with a hundred point spread. Aim for that domination.
Omni designs strategies that match our playstyles and skillsets. We also fine-tune our strategies as situations change.
Spoiler
Omni's strategies are almost universally designed around our DM'ing advantage – not just in Hawken, but in each game we've played. We force frequent engagements because we're confident that we'll win. Opponents looking to overcome our stronger shooters and coordination flood with numbers, leaving other areas undefended. Alternatively, our constant midfield pressure stymies counteroffensives. We optimize coordination through practice and effective comms, while minimizing uncertainty through flowcharting and designated shot-callers. Finally, we utilize member input to adjust strategies during scrims.
Omni's Overarching Facility Strategy (MA): Control two points and force constant midfield fights. Prevent the enemy from mounting effective, point-flooding counterattacks by staggering their spawns. Two C-class players (OmniStone's Hawkins Brawler; hestoned's Grenadier) responsible for point defense and midfield support. Remaining mixture of A's and B's engage while reporting enemy movements.
Explanation: Holding two points and forcing the mid-field fights plays to our DM'ing advantage. Through constant pressure, we stop or slow any “musical chairs” strategies while unbalancing the enemy's spawn groupings. The C-class defenders dissuade individual cap attempts while contributing to the midfield fight and providing support for retreating teammates. This strategy requires quick, accurate communication and strong coordination. It works only when each member understands the overarching strategy and possesses intelligence enough to operate within that framework.
Contingency Planning Example (Flow-charting): If we start losing a point, the shot-caller will decide (based on available information) whether it's salvageable. If yes, players will be distributed as appropriate. If no, shotcaller will assign silos and devotion, IareDave, hestoned, Nept and/or 7r1p will move toward appropriate staging point, with Xacius acting sideguard. They will then launch an assault on the designated silo. Simultaneously, OmniStone will head toward the closest enemy point; Xacius will reinforce as necessary, and at his and OmniStone's discretion.
Explanation: If you're down silos, you must recapture quickly. Ideally, we start this movement early, moving players into position while the opposition captures. Xacius' sideguard position prevents the group of four from being flanked and delayed mid-field. If they encounter minimal opposition, Xacius can immediately reinforce OmniStone's advance; otherwise, OmniStone bases his approach on enemy resistance. End result is typically a 4-2 split. Why a 4-2 split? Again, we're utilizing our DM'ing advantage: four Omni can deal with most any situation.
If they encounter six opponents, they can comfortably last until Xacius reinforces and OmniStone captures the empty point.
If they encounter five opponents, they can comfortably last (or push) while Xacius and OmniStone quickly eliminate their single opponent.
If they encounter four opponents, they can easily push while Xacius and OmniStone easily push their two opponents.
If they encounter three opponents, they can quickly take the point while Xacius and OmniStone hold (or push) against their three opponents.
If they encounter one or two opponents, we can shift one or two mechs quickly toward Xacius and OmniStone's hold out, and continue taking the point(s).
Fine-Tuning:Originally, we preferred holding points S1 and S3 because they offered defenders more cover and midfielders more approaches. However, OmniStone mentioned that S2 provided him much better sightlines, offering our team more information and our long-range mechs (Brawler and Sharpshooter) more targets. As a result, we shifted our typical hold to S2 and either S3 or S1 (spawn dependent). If my Sharpshooter weren't present, though, our team would often revert to the S1 and S3 hold.
Member Agency:Omni recruits only intelligent people. And Xacius, I guess. We expect our players to operate semi-independently during matches, but within the boundaries of our strategies. Midfield members largely coordinate positions amongst themselves, with shot-callers maintaining oversight and micromanaging when necessary. Typically, shot-callers focus on the “larger picture,” while individuals focus on the immediate situation. Ideally, though, members consider the larger picture during their deliberations. Perhaps, for example, they've an opportunity to chase and kill an opponent (immediate situation) but withdraw for the sake of their defensive line. Roles such as Xacius' sideguard position are especially demanding in this regard.
Additional Note:It's important to recognize the difference between a poor strategy and a poorly-executed strategy. Several times we've returned from prolonged absences to scrim someone on Facility. Predictably, we've performed poorly, prompting members to suggest drastic strategic revisions. It was often obvious, though, that our players were rusty and that their coordination had suffered as a result. After clearing the rust and improving communication, the strategy returned to its previous effectiveness.
Of course, it's equally important to recognize when shifting situations have rendered strategies ineffective. Perhaps you've lost or gained a player; perhaps teams have become familiar with your strategy; or perhaps your opponents have simply improved. Don't dogmatically cling to ineffective strategies. If you're adjusting them, though, design them around your team's strengths and weaknesses. Remember that Omni's strategies won't work unless you're similarly coordinated and possess similar DM advantages. Too often I see teams copying an opponent's strategy and/or mech selections because they've been led to believe there's an incontrovertible “meta”.
Omni runs effective comms
Spoiler
I'm going to be quick and brutally honest: most Hawken comms I've heard have been absolute garbage. People spewing irrelevant information; people blaming teammates and questioning leadership designations mid-match; people screaming over each other; people screaming in irritation; shot-callers giving nebulous orders (e.g., “Attack something”); shot-callers giving thoughtless orders; shot-callers giving no orders – all common occurrences within competitive Hawken.
How's it fixed? Develop simple hierarchies and craft around them basic codes of conduct. Then, enforce this code while practicing effective communication. Ideally, teammates are trusted friends; at the very least, they should hold some modicum of respect for each other.
Here's Omni's unwritten code of conduct:
Obey orders promptly; question only if something's obviously wrong. Trust the leader, and save concerns until after the match.
Avoid angry or irritated outbursts.
Do not blame or badmouth teammates.
Don't clutter comms with useless information. Consider what's been broadcast already. But with that in mind, be vocal with relevant information.
Convey information concisely.
Positional information (both yours and the enemy's) is especially important, as it allows your teammates to visualize the battlefield and make decisions accordingly.
Video Examples
Video Examples on their way.
Facility Strategy in Action. Note the comms, as well.
Comms on Origin.
On Practice and Ego.
Lol - once we understood what this drill improves, I felt stupid for not trying this in the first place.
U wanna git gud at a shooter with a dodging mechanic? Practice dodging and shooting. Duh.
Inefficient practice is pretty par for the course. Think about things logically, though: If you were playing hockey and your wrist shot needed improvement, would you run constant Offense vs. Defense drills? Scrimmage a lot? Or would you just shoot a lot of pucks?
People don't often think deeply about practice, or they let their egos and short attention spans enter the equation. Sometimes, for example, players prefer dueling because they usually win. Their "practice" becomes an opportunity to showcase superiority. But by focusing on dueling (which emphasizes positioning, radar awareness, and corner play), they're often neglecting target acquisition time and raw accuracy. Encounters during competitive play are frantic, quick affairs – you don't have thirty seconds for careful positioning. That isn't to say that dueling isn't good practice, but it might not be the practice you need most - especially if you're consistently beating your practice partner(s). Conversely, many players avoid dueling because they don't want to lose.
Asides from providing motivation and drive, ego has no place in practice. It muddies self-analysis, preventing people from identifying issues; it causes rifts between teammates; and it often dissuades people from practicing in the first place - either because they believe themselves above it, or because they don't want to lose face.
And yes, Omnis have egos. Ego, pride, all those supposedly awful things – they actually promote self-improvement, provided your actions and attributions don't revolve around delusion. When Omni performs poorly, we accept responsibility, analyze the issues, and efficiently address them. We avoid idle preening. We avoid ego-drivenavoidance.
Omni preempts ego-related problems through two mechanisms: 1) our players are mindful of their egos and direct them accordingly; 2) our players listen to their teammates, and to their leader. We identify weaknesses and expect that they'll be addressed. That's it. There's no arguing about it, and there's no denial. We assess against the game's best – both within and outside Omni – so as to maintain a comfortable skill differential. And one more (egotistical) thing: we're nowhere near our maximum potential. We simply practiced to the point where we could comfortably defeat all opposition.
Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 12 February 2016 - 02:37 PM.
Yeah, it comes across as very self-absorbed to a casual new player like me. And I have zero desire to become that good at this GAME. Nice, humble name you got there too. Congrats on your awesomeness though.
Edited by harmless_kittens, 11 February 2016 - 08:33 AM.
I'd like to draw specific attention to the comms and cognitive bias portions, particularly for the teams I've played with. God knows I need to work on the bias portion myself.
But seriously, if you're in a comp situation shut the unholy fuzz up.
While I will admit that I for many subjective reasons can find TeamOmni`s presence somewhat intimidating, as I think it can scare of many from joining leagues and a somewhat unforgiving attitude towards failures (from my understandings), I can at least appreciate the openness in the beginning of the post, knowing how others may look upon it as simply "this is why we are so much better than your scrubby lil buttockses". So yea +1 on that
I've debated writing this post for awhile now – mostly because I can't pretend that frustration isn't my primary motivator. This post will appear pedantic and arrogant, regardless of my wording. If you didn't like me before, you certainly won't now; and if you thought me a pleasant person (hah), this post might shred the veil. If the source of my frustration is any indicator, though, insight into Omni's operations will be useful to anyone contemplating competitive play.
This is the only arrogant part IMO.
The rest is just some very detailed, usefull information.
It's not much different from an approach to a very competitive sport IMO.
You're wasting your time. People are either competitively-minded or they aren't, and that's already obvious from the dismissive replies in this thread.
Omni clearly is the strongest in Hawken, but I think that in the unlikely event Hawken ever makes it big, professional, world-tier teams will move from other games to Hawken, and then you will have a VERY hard time remaining at the #1 spot. Think you can?
You're wasting your time. People are either competitively-minded or they aren't, and that's already obvious from the dismissive replies in this thread.
Dismissive due to head in own anus syndrome detected.
Honestly they can be defeated imo but givin the fact that there are only so many top tier players in this game and on individual teams/clans instead of making another super team to knock them off. They will remain in that position until then hence y they never been stopped yet..
Honestly they can be defeated imo but givin the fact that there are only so many top tier players in this game and on individual teams/clans instead of making another super team to knock them off. They will remain in that position until then hence y they never been stopped yet..
I keep hearing stories in their TS about "Omni killer" super-teams that have been put together in other games.
I would love for one of those stories to involve Hawken one day.
I keep hearing stories in their TS about "Omni killer" super-teams that have been put together in other games.
I would love for one of those stories to involve Hawken one day.
The issue here is that (though a team could be assembled with the capacity to beat Omni) actually getting those players together on one team for any extended period of time is impossible. The sheer variation in personality is a glaring issue, not to mention the fact that several are already dedicated to current teams. I have no desire to join Omni in its current state but I do have a desire to compete with people that I feel can teach me something, so naturally I have put a great deal of thought into what such a team would look like and the closest thing ever was what crush was 6 months ago. Where is crush now? Gone. Fragmented. Half the players don't play anymore. The thing that makes Omni so good is their longevity and consistency. That's why they haven't been beaten. Their skill can be matched. Their team can't.
While I will admit that I for many subjective reasons can find TeamOmni`s presence somewhat intimidating, as I think it can scare of many from joining leagues and a somewhat unforgiving attitude towards failures (from my understandings), I can at least appreciate the openness in the beginning of the post, knowing how others may look upon it as simply "this is why we are so much better than your scrubby lil buttockses". So yea +1 on that
And I appreciate your pointing that out. Omni will be breaking from Hawken for awhile, so opponents and detractors (They exist! I know, I'm surprised too) can rest easier. Of course, our members with TPG positions will continue to fulfill their obligations.
Worth mentioning that our players are generally well-behaved in-game, especially considering the verbal abuse they withstand. It's not exactly soul crushing, but it does become exasperating dealing with hack accusation this, or I'm better than you that. We discourage members both from starting fuzzy bunny themselves and from dealing harshly with newbies. However, we do allow members to be jerks to jerks. If you're not a jerk, though, we're typically quite helpful and friendly; any intolerance toward failure is kept within team boundaries.
You'll rarely find an Omni shittalking pubbers, and you'll never find us disparaging match or scrim partners. In fact, we discourage members from streaming lest some badmouthing slips out - which, ironically, prompted this post. Our entire roster has spent years listening to opponents badmouth - not all opponents, of course, but a significant number - and then being prevented from responding harshly. We wanted to speak our piece before we left. And we wanted to direct the competitive community's attention toward several recurring problems.
Yeah, it comes across as very self-absorbed to a casual new player like me. And I have zero desire to become that good at this GAME. Nice, humble name you got there too. Congrats on your awesomeness though.
Oh snap, you edited a name bash in there!
My name's obviously a joke. It was extended thusly (from God-King Nept) to prod several individuals posting responses similar to yours.
We recognize it's a game. I stated as much both immediately and clearly.
This post isn't directed toward casual players, although some sections would certainly apply.
We've no beef with casual players: it's totally cool if you've no desire to approach competitive play.
Omniscient has achieved its accomplishments while recruiting some damn quality people who've become trusted friends. We enjoy competition, and we've developed the skillset to succeed. I recognize you're implying that we've wasted our time, but that's a shallow, trite, and mistaken assessment.
I expect more grace and less posturing from someone whose (frankly, parochial) moral perspectives have cluttered these general forums. But maybe that's unrealistic.
You're wasting your time. People are either competitively-minded or they aren't, and that's already obvious from the dismissive replies in this thread.
That's alright - this post was partially self-serving anyway. Regardless, our opinion's public and people may react as they will.
Omni clearly is the strongest in Hawken, but I think that in the unlikely event Hawken ever makes it big, professional, world-tier teams will move from other games to Hawken, and then you will have a VERY hard time remaining at the #1 spot. Think you can?
Absolutely. We'll be there, barring natural disasters.
The issue here is that (though a team could be assembled with the capacity to beat Omni) actually getting those players together on one team for any extended period of time is impossible. The sheer variation in personality is a glaring issue, not to mention the fact that several are already dedicated to current teams. I have no desire to join Omni in its current state but I do have a desire to compete with people that I feel can teach me something, so naturally I have put a great deal of thought into what such a team would look like and the closest thing ever was what crush was 6 months ago. Where is crush now? Gone. Fragmented. Half the players don't play anymore. The thing that makes Omni so good is their longevity and consistency. That's why they haven't been beaten. Their skill can be matched. Their team can't.
Fundamental Attribution Error (FAE), the Actor-Observer Effect, and Self-Serving Bias:
breadeffect, RedVan, Hyginos and 1 other like this
You're wasting your time. People are either competitively-minded or they aren't, and that's already obvious from the dismissive replies in this thread.
Well yeah, some people are obviously never going to be, but I think it's beneficial to have as much info on the mental aspects of the game at high levels as possible for anyone wanting to improve beyond getting better at pure mechanics. A decent amount of this applies to normal individual pub play anyway.
I keep hearing stories in their TS about "Omni killer" super-teams that have been put together in other games. Never heard of them lol all I know is the players capable if formed together on a team can beat them imo hypothetically speaking imagine a team that consist of like..Cluster. Xiphos27. Cond0m. DarkTim300. Merl16. Etc in that aspect all one a team. I think it's very possible for them to win. But as Merl16 said himself in the post below this it is impossible to bring such a team together leaving their respective tram they're on now to come together on one team. Unless they take the time to consider it and talk about it. On a serious note
I would love for one of those stories to involve Hawken one day.
Sorry for the snark, but what is a new player supposed to think about your name (which apparently you edited specifically to evoke a response) and then what you wrote? You may mean well, but without a healthy level of humility in there it just comes across (to me at least) as narcissism. But in hindsight I should have listened to my gut and just not replied at all, since this type/level of play will never affect me.
Signing out of this thread.
Edited by harmless_kittens, 11 February 2016 - 11:06 AM.
Yeah, it comes across as very self-absorbed to a casual new player like me. And I have zero desire to become that good at this GAME. Nice, humble name you got there too. Congrats on your awesomeness though.
As a reply to your last part of that comment:
Spoiler
If it's a waste of my time then I'm not playing it.
Sorry for the snark, but what is a new player supposed to think about your name (which apparently you edited specifically to evoke a response) and then what you wrote? You may mean well, but without a healthy level of humility in there it just comes across (to me at least) as narcissism. But in hindsight I should not have listened to my gut and just not replied at all, since this type/level of play will never affect me.
Signing out of this thread.
coldform, RedVan, _incitatus and 5 others like this
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
Sorry for the snark, but what is a new player supposed to think about your name (which apparently you edited specifically to evoke a response) and then what you wrote? You may mean well, but without a healthy level of humility in there it just comes across (to me at least) as narcissism. But in hindsight I should not have listened to my gut and just not replied at all, since this type/level of play will never affect me.
Signing out of this thread.
No worries. Apologies for the harsh reply.
Honestly, I find most players recognize that "Ultra-Lord of the God-Kings" rings slightly facetious. As for narcissism, we're aware that we're playing a game - and rest assured, Hawken doesn't factor heavily into our self-concepts. And as for humility, well, truthfully, we've been pretty damn reserved during our stay. As you've just demonstrated, though, sometimes people decide to address irritations directly and bluntly.
I keep hearing stories in their TS about "Omni killer" super-teams that have been put together in other games.
I would love for one of those stories to involve Hawken one day.
Never heard of them lol all I know is the players capable if formed together on a team can beat them imo hypothetically speaking imagine a team that consist of like..Cluster. Xiphos27. Cond0m. DarkTim300. Merl16. Etc in that aspect all one a team. I think it's very possible for them to win. But as Merl16 said himself in the post below this it is impossible to bring such a team together leaving their respective tram they're on now to come together on one team. Unless they take the time to consider it and talk about it. On a serious note
FTFY.
Honestly the team you put together would do OK but there would have to do some serious work on comms to avoid getting brutally out-rotated. At the very least throw x9x8x7x on the roster.
I keep hearing stories in their TS about "Omni killer" super-teams that have been put together in other games. Never heard of them lol all I know is the players capable if formed together on a team can beat them imo hypothetically speaking imagine a team that consist of like..Cluster. Xiphos27. Cond0m. DarkTim300. Merl16. Etc in that aspect all one a team. I think it's very possible for them to win. But as Merl16 said himself in the post below this it is impossible to bring such a team together leaving their respective tram they're on now to come together on one team. Unless they take the time to consider it and talk about it. On a serious note
I would love for one of those stories to involve Hawken one day.
I was gonna try to get one together a long time ago when a lot of TPG teams dissolved but I figured it wouldn't work out for multiple reasons and dropped the idea. There would've been unavoidable personality clashes, and one person not being able to attend (which, in all likelihood, would've been me because of factors which were out of my control. This is also why I never accepted Omni invitations, actually.) would've broken the team. The hypothetical starting roster was Xacius, cond0m, Dew, Merl, Cluster, and me. We would've been a shoe-in for at least second, but honestly I think Omni's ability to coordinate that's been developed over the course of years would've been too much to overcome without an unreasonable amount of practice.
The issue here is that (though a team could be assembled with the capacity to beat Omni) actually getting those players together on one team for any extended period of time is impossible. The sheer variation in personality is a glaring issue, not to mention the fact that several are already dedicated to current teams. I have no desire to join Omni in its current state but I do have a desire to compete with people that I feel can teach me something, so naturally I have put a great deal of thought into what such a team would look like and the closest thing ever was what crush was 6 months ago. Where is crush now? Gone. Fragmented. Half the players don't play anymore. The thing that makes Omni so good is their longevity and consistency. That's why they haven't been beaten. Their skill can be matched. Their team can't.
"The thing that makes Omni so good is their longevity and consistency"...
"Their skill can be matched"
So you're telling me that there are others that can match Omni skill, skill they've had pretty much from the beginning, yet teams couldn't beat them before "longevity" came into play either?
Honestly the team you put together would do OK but there would have to do some serious work on comms to avoid getting brutally out-rotated. At the very least throw x9x8x7x on the roster.
yea lol there's more players that can go in on it that's y I said hypothetically and "etc" also y I said they would have to discuss that in a serious note. I believe if such a team comes together they can coordinate well just have to put then Egos aside for a moment
Wish you'd join a tpg team Jeff and get some comp xp, you'd probably be good at it.
At the end of the day Hawken tpg amounts to a smallish open division almost entirely of players new to competition league play.
Tpg dod near its death was 5 times its size with a solid 10+ years of development and a nearly impenetrable invite division.
If we had that here.
After seeing Omni perform against the handful of teams Hawken has had in what amounts to a small open/pub level division, I'd move them up to Im and if they still stomp preseason give them a taste of main division for a full regular season.
A few hundred old money pros and a huge pub community always throwing new blood in is an altogether different animal.
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
I was gonna try to get one together a long time ago when a lot of TPG teams dissolved but I figured it wouldn't work out for multiple reasons and dropped the idea. There would've been unavoidable personality clashes, and one person not being able to attend (which, in all likelihood, would've been me because of factors which were out of my control. This is also why I never accepted Omni invitations, actually.) would've broken the team. The hypothetical starting roster was Xacius, cond0m, Dew, Merl, Cluster, and me. We would've been a shoe-in for at least second, but honestly I think Omni's ability to coordinate that's been developed over the course of years would've been too much to overcome without an unreasonable amount of practice.
honestly you don't even need high mmr players cause it's just a number but if you have a team that can click in terms of coordination but do know how to play of course then they have a chance. Also from when I've started I can honestly alot of us have improved to atleast keep up with most people and others are still at their current level from when u first joined the game.
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