160 replies to this topic

[Nept]

A quick introduction: I'm Nept.  I lead Omniscient, the team that took top honours in Hawken's competitive league (TPG), and whose membership includes Climatic, hestoned, IAreDave, Leonhardt, OmniStone, 7r1p, and Xacius.  In order to avoid having our aimbots detected, I, alongside several longstanding community members, also act as the league's administrator. (That is a joke.) 

 

 

Before the old forums disappeared, we were treated to several (dozen) posters tolling their I-told-you-so bells and blaming Hawken's state on balance decisions. Popular particulars included movement speed (e.g., �I wanted MechWarrior-style mechs�), game pacing (e.g., �This game is literally CoD�), mech types (e.g., �The Technician and/or Incinerator and/or Sharpshooter and/or Scout have ruined this game�), and matchmaking (e.g., �High MMR players are the devil�). In my opinion, however, these explanations miss their mark completely: Hawken � an arena-style mech game � was bound to falter because of the interaction between its funding pitch and its gameplay. No balance decisions were going to alter that scenario.

 

Through two waves of funding, Meteor entertainment raised roughly twenty-eight million on the claim that Hawken's numbers could compete with League of Legends': �Mark Long, CEO of Meteor Entertainment, believes Hawken can attract 10 million gamers in 2013 and generate over $100 million in revenue for the company, which is funded by the likes of Rustic Canyon Partners, Benchmark Capital and FirstMark Capital� [link]. The latter two firms, if you weren't aware, funded League's development and were obviously hoping that lightning would strike twice. Of course it didn't, and once the investors became aware of the obvious population issues, they refused to fund further development.

 

But why couldn't Hawken compete with those numbers? Anyone who followed the game's coverage (the investors amongst them, apparently), would've noticed the overwhelmingly positive reception received by the announcement trailers. Great reception equals great numbers, right? Evidently not. Apparently, the investment firms weren't sufficiently educated on arena shooters � shooters where skill ceilings are elevated through high mobility, high movement speeds, and high times-to-kill. Although some people enjoy the challenges and ability gaps brought about by such games, most people do not. Simply put, arena shooters have never enjoyed massive audiences.

 

 

Conclusion

 

Combining an arena shooter (and a mech game, to boot � another niche genre) with a funding pitch predicated on massive populations wasn't a great idea. Arguably, combining any shooter (that's not CounterStrike) with a funding pitch predicated on massive populations isn't a great idea. And although Hawken's development had issues apart from its source of funding, none of them (again, imo) tilted its ship so dangerously as this one. [Note: I'm considering Meteor's decision to develop their own delivery and purchase system as part and parcel with its funding pitch]

 

If you're planning on posting about the game's direction, please keep my thoughts in mind. We're a tad tired of seeing people claim that their balance/gameplay suggestion will revitalize the community and attract throngs of eager gamers. It won't. The people who are interested in playing an arena mech shooter will play Hawken. The people who aren't interested will not.

 

If we're discussing playerbase development and retention, I believe it better to focus on pay models and communication. Currently, many observers and casual players think that Hawken operates on a �pay2win� model � a perception that cannot be permitted to stand. Kill two birds with one stone by offering a package that includes all current mechs alongside their abilities, weapons, and internals. If you're planning on introducing new mechs (perhaps those that have already been developed), consider a �season pass� model that will provide people future access. Toss in some aesthetics if you're feeling generous. Blitz gaming news sites with the fact that Hawken's not pay2win; capitalize on your community communication by pitching the �New Hawken Developers Working Closely With Community� interview and headline. When you're ready to develop new content, focus on extending the scope of the game through maps and game modes rather than making major balance passes. Blame Saturnine for decisions which aren't well-received.  Profit.

 

 

*Edited to include a question from, and response to, ROSING:

 

Sorry I am confused, and I mean no disrespect at all, but how will offering a package that will unlock all of the mechs and their attachments work against the game's perception as being a pay2win game? I'm probably missing something here...:T

 

But you raise some good points, and hopefully the Devs play their cards right and the odds are in their favor :)

 

No worries - at first glance the suggestion seems out of place.

 

When people complain about �pay2win,� they're typically doing so in the context of free-to-play games. By providing a complete package of mechs, abilities, items, and weapons at a reasonable price, the developers could convince potential customers that they're purchasing a full game. Players then have their choice of two options: purchase the full game, or play for free while grinding toward completion. Of course, this route would require strong communication from the developers. They would have to emphasize that non-paying players would have eventual full-game access through leveling, and that mech/weapon unlocks are sidegrades. (Yes, some changes would have to be made re: access to internals and items to ensure that they were truly sidegrades)

 

Also bears mentioning that developers (and forum communities) often underestimate the power of player ego. Although there were several factors that contributed to the pay2win perception surrounding Hawken, the most overlooked (and imo, the strongest) is the fact that players will look toward anything but themselves when explaining a loss. It's never their fault. No, it's the lag. Or the matchmaking. Or the hackers. Or the pay2win players in their pay2win mechs that are umpteen times better than yours. As a developer, you have to hammer into your playerbase (and any interviewers) the fact that pay2win mechanics are playing no part in their losses.

 

One last bit: Vanashinkaku (former developer) stated that their decision to include unlocks and levelling was based on data which demonstrated that players enjoy progression. At the same time, however, there were many players (and potential players) wanting to purchase a �full game� sans grinding. The aforementioned suggestions would satisfy both groups of players: those desiring a sense of progression (and to not pay), and those desiring the full game.

Edited by Nept, 23 March 2015 - 12:00 AM.

[DaPheel]

I like the idea of the season pass/ multi-unlock package, it'd generate some pennies, i'd certainly get it for my smurf.

[Kvalheim]

Thanks, that was actually pretty interesting, always like to see how stuff works behind the scenes. Particularly as noted, people tend to VERY much believe they know exactly how game development works and that their idea will save -everything-.

On payment, it's hard to make something that -doesn't- seem Pay2Win and still remain financially viable. Only game I can think off that can manage the purely-cosmetic route is Dota, and even then people now call -that- P2W. Having an option similar to Smite with it's "Basically... buy the game" package could be something to look into.

[Z1Alpha]

 

If you're planning on posting about the game's direction, please keep my thoughts in mind. We're a tad tired of seeing people claim that their balance/gameplay suggestion will revitalize the community and attract throngs of eager gamers. It won't. The people who are interested in playing an arena mech shooter will play Hawken. The people who aren't interested will not.

 

 

Amen. I haven't seen anyone griping on these forums (Considering it was just made live yesterday) about how "X" happened or what "Y" reason is failing/failed. The Steam forums are filled with this kind of nonsense that brings no viable suggestions or solutions to the table. I don't know about reddit, but what you said about people being interested or not is on point. Hopefully people here will be helpful and considerate.

[GMKGoat]

Well said, Nept. I'd spent the last week at work trying to analyze what went wrong re: Hawken's success and every conclusion I could make always came back to Meteor's monetization strategy simply not fitting a game like Hawken, so it's nice to know that someone with a much more personal perspective of the game came to the same conclusion. I hadn't heard about Mark Long's expectations of the success of the game until now and honestly it's pretty shocking. I'd like to know what kind of drugs you'd have to take to delude yourself into thinking a heavily skill-based arena shooter could ever compete with League's numbers. That's just insanity.

 

I think you have the right idea on how Reloaded ought to approach the game in the future, particularly being very vocal with news sites, and prioritizing increasing the game's scope with game modes and maps. I would however be wary about offering season passes for future developed mechs. Effectively accepting pre-orders for content the player may hate is always a dangerous road.

[RedVan]

what is a nept?

[PoopSlinger]

The p2win thing is thrown around a lot on reddit. Just make orblord zerker a trial mech.

[dorobo]

Giving more for a new player is a good idea. Not just a walking crtv.Overall polish of game mechanics and immersion wont hurt. I personally get tired of that sound in garage when selecting mechs :]

[Interrobang87]

A good read. It seems to me that the APB guys are at least going into this with their eyes open and have made amazing progress so far. I'm looking forward to how they decide to tweak things to achieve long term growth for Hawken.

[OmegaNull]

Good read! However, mur leiks cannotz be uzed

[Sylhiri]

Pretty much everything titled "Free to Play" gets labeled "Pay to Win" right at the get go by uninformed consumers, it's a curse. 

[Undecided_Major]

Hawken also had the misfortune of launching on steam right around the same time that Titanfall was released. If you look at any of the old promotional videos you will see pages and pages of Titanfall compairisons and discussion in the comments. Hawken blew all their marketing budget too early and when it made it on steam nobody remembered what it was and Titanfall was hot on everyones plate.

 

This is a huge factor that nobody seems to take into account.

[crockrocket]

Alas, I have no more likes to give you.

 

In all seriousness, I think you make a very good point. I do think there are ways to increase player retention, namely through easing newbies' introduction to the game through an advanced tutorial or a less harsh grind, but it is certainly important to consider what your target market is and how large that market is. 

[eth0]

A "full garage" package of all the current G1 mechs would be awesome.

[SigmaOmega]

Good read! However, mur leiks cannotz be uzed

Liez, they can be USED!! Loved the read also 

[Draigun]

Incredibly well worded. Should honestly have this pinned in my opinion, since it's an issue that is always brought up.

[ROSING]

Sorry I am confused, and I mean no disrespect at all, but how will offering a package that will unlock all of the mechs and their attachments work against the game's perception as being a pay2win game? I'm probably missing something here...:T

 

But you raise some good points, and hopefully the Devs play their cards right and the odds are in their favor :)

[IareDave]

Sorry I am confused, and I mean no disrespect at all, but how will offering a package that will unlock all of the mechs and their attachments work against the game's perception as being a pay2win game? I'm probably missing something here...:T

 

But you raise some good points, and hopefully the Devs play their cards right and the odds are in their favor :)

This game never was and will continue to maintain it's title of a non pay2win game unless by some skewed logic the devs decide to release content that is an upgrade (ie. an assault type mech with faster movement speed) and then put a dollar sign to obtain.  Hawken followed a business model similar to most free2plays whereby players can opt to spend money to skip the grind. It's a fairly successful model, though I think the new devs should shorten the grind for people who are not willing to spend an ungodly amount of time to unlock all of the content through playing. 

Edited by IareDave, 21 March 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[shosca]

Locking items/internals by pilot level was a big mistake and the fact that the UI never showed that you can unlock those with hc when you reached a certain level, this was the biggest reason for the p2w myth spreading.

Edited by shosca, 21 March 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Locking items/internals by pilot level was a big mistake and the fact that the UI never showed that you can unlock those with hc when you reached a certain level, this was the biggest reason for the p2w myth spreading.

you're not shosca until you merica the fuzzy bunny up again.

[Interrobang87]

something that occurred to me when i read the OP earlier (but was too lazy to express until now) - regarding the reference to league of legends - league's cosmetic skin model is extremely effective because each skin is tailored specifically to an individual champion, giving the player a sense of uniqueness and individuality. Hawken's cosmetic skin model, on the other hand, is a (usually boring) print that is draped over the mech model and is interchangeable between completely different mechs.

 

I believe cosmetic changes would have more perceived value if they were tailored specifically to each individual mech - aka make special skins that only go to one mech or family of mechs i.e. bruiser/scout or zerker/assault. Make some themes - be silly sometimes - come out with "epic skins" that change the model and/or sounds.

 

Give us a dam REASON to spend money on the game.

 

For an example of what I'm trying to say look at the history of league of legends skins. The game was small and all the skins were essentially recolors of the base model (boring). Then they started coming out with skins that made it look like they put some god dam thought and effort into their product and the game mysteriously got huge. Yes, obviously the gameplay had a large part to play - but people tend to actually spend money on fuzzy bunny that makes them feel special and look cool. The end.

[talon70]

Mark Long over promised and under delivered. Money had been spent penny wise and dollar stupid. Great devs on a great game were left in the dark because of the way corporate bankruptcy works. The short answer is the business model failed.

 

As far as 'discussing player base development and retention,' there really is room for the Hawken universe to grow past an arena shooter. Just adding a bunch of animations in between levels  to the bot mode could start   to serve as a campaign  mode. How about a giant lobby where 100's or 1000's of mechs meet, exchange parts, maybe drop off scrap to have modified.... whatever while we choose our game. My point is it could evolve. TF2 pretty much died at first, and was filled was problems... 

 

Find out what the competition is doing and then don't do it!

 

....for now.

 

Lighten up the grind ALOT on new pilots.

 

fred should come fully loaded with everything for a new pilot to try. Maybe get your second mech at a huge savings with internals ect. Tease new pilots with some type of skins or other fun stuff to play with.

 

Rookies are thrown to the wolves. I bet CapnJ can attest. The mmr algorithm should be able to a detect the pattern of keystrokes on a veterans smurf account within a few rounds of play and block them from the lower level servers. The mmr algorithm should be able to a detect the pattern of keystrokes on a veterans smurf account within a few rounds of play and block them from the lower level servers. Or something proactive to that problem.

 

$15-20 a year for our Advanced pilots license is worth considering. That would help cover server expense.

 

There might might be a couple other issues ;) but over all my gut tells me Hawken is in a great place right now.

 

T

[RedVan]

Games have long had high skilled players play vs low skilled players and have survived for years...  This really has nothing to do with the survivability of hawken.

[crockrocket]

 match by IP address, 

Some of your other options could work, but as someone who lives in a house with 30 people, IP wouldn't work too well.

[ArchMech]

game needed shackles to keep players, and slave traders to get them

[crockrocket]

 

 

Lighten up the grind ALOT on new pilots.

 

fred should come fully loaded with everything for a new pilot to try. Maybe get your second mech at a huge savings with internals ect. Tease new pilots with some type of skins or other fun stuff to play with.

 

 

Lightening up the grind is in my mind the single most effective way to appeal to the casual player and increase the playerbase. I know that a lot of us stuck it out through the grind, BUT WE ARE NOT THE AVERAGE. The numbers show it. And if we want to keep playing Hawken for years to come, we need to appeal to the average.

[defekt]

A handful of thoughts occur:-

 

Allow new players to easily recover from making uninformed/poor choices.  Veterans tend not so see the pitfalls in the current mech/part purchase system when it comes to new players avoiding screwing themselves over; it's very easy to make a wrong choice and be stuck with it for a very long time indeed.  This forces new players out the door.  Allow any purchase to be returned to the garage for a refund.  (Apply a -5 per cent to the refund cost of the item per day if needs be.)

 

Give new players the tools they need to fight with, i.e., raise the base average of how capable brand new mechs are.  Personally, I don't mind pitting new players against better players; until recently, games have been doing that for a year of donkeys and we *cough* of a certain advanced age *cough* turned out okay.  However, dropping naked mechs in with super-tooled-up ones never really worked out all that well.  Every mech should come as a functional and competitive package right out of the gate.  This also speaks to the internals/upgrades system becoming more of a means of diversification and/or specialisation from that starting norm.  (Hawken has a long and somewhat torrid history with vertical progression.)

 

Lambs to the slaughter.  Pitting newbies up against veterans.  As I've already mentioned above, I'm rather okay with this; I earned my stripes playing against the very best Quake and UT had to offer way back when and I, and others, turned out okay.  However, times they are-a-changin' and there is indeed a case for keeping the truly new players segregated away from the wilds whilst they learn the ropes.  Call it a newbie playpen if you will, where all newbies play off against one another without a vet being able to drop in and ruin their day.  After this short grace period is over, throw them in with the wolves!

 

Microtransactions: they need to be numerous and cheap, not few and expensive.  Present folks with a vast selection of 99p options, rather than a few �5+ choices, and these cheap microtransactions will become lucrative impulse buys; most people aren't that worried about taking a punt on a couple of items that amount being no more than the price of a beer. 

 

Season passes.  Tricky one this.  Perception is as important as reality in so far as games like Hawken are concerned.  Alas, the fact of the matter is that such things do indeed contribute to an air of P2W, even if mechanically they do not.  (One of the reasons Hawken flopped is because of the perception it's P2W.)  I'd err on the side of caution on this one and say don't include season passes - not unless the devs have a sure-fire way of presenting them without any hint of a whiff of P2W.  Such a thing has a greater chance of paying off, in every sense, if introduced after the game has established itself.

Edited by defekt, 22 March 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

A handful of thoughts occur:-

Lambs to the slaughter.  Pitting newbies up against veterans.  As I've already mentioned above, I'm rather okay with this; I earned my stripes playing against the very best Quake and UT had to offer way back when and I, and others, turned out okay.  However, times they are-a-changin' and there is indeed a case for keeping the truly new players segregated away from the wilds whilst they learn the ropes.  Call it a newbie playpen if you will, where all newbies play off against one another without a vet being able to drop in and ruin their day.  After this short grace period is over, throw them in with the wolves!

 

I think this is incredibly important. However, I think it needs to be tied into an un-ranked environment which allows anyone to play against anyone, without a change to their MMR. The reality is that, in its current state, there may not be enough new players to fill out a server. An un-ranked area gives the opportunity to find games in another way with a larger pool of players, as long as its clear what they may be getting themselves into. This still gives them safe space to retreat to and a greater challenge when they're ready.

[talon70]

I think the mindset that only people who play  or are interested in mech arena shooters will play Hawken is a mistake. That's a pretty small number of people to market to. And it is already more than that. There needs to be a way to attract and keep alot of casual players to support you hardcore pilots and your addiction.

 

I have only played a couple times but the coop TDM is pretty fun and could be modified to attract new people. Give them something when they win. Steam achievements? . I dont care about that stuff but others do.  The bots taunting and talking fuzzy bunny to you is fun.

 

The repair torch heals. Another tool could build.... why not. I am just saying although I wouldn't play a building mode, others would and now you can sell them stuffs too. Expanding on game modes and adding  fun stuff to retain casual gamers is what will provide the legs to support a healthy competitive community in the future.

 

Think Expansion

[Black_Knight_Sky]

The pay2win thing stems directly from the fact you can unlock items and internals early with only MC, I honestly think that it is not entirely baseless. I think that is a real problem that should be fixed (either by removing rank restrictions or making it possible to unlock early with HC). Me personally I dropped around 80$ into HAWKEN as soon as it hit steam and I have to say being able to completely outfit mechs with gear far above my rank most def tipped things in my favor, at least on the 1v1 scale.

Edited by Black_Knight_Sky, 22 March 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[YellerBill]

I think the game could use a new player boost along the lines of what Mechwarrior Online has-- new players get extra currency for their first 25 matches played. Something like that could give new players enough HC to purchase their first non-CRT mech, so that they have more options than just the trials and the CRT right off the bat.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

 

I have only played a couple times but the coop TDM is pretty fun and could be modified to attract new people. Give them something when they win. Steam achievements? . I dont care about that stuff but others do.  The bots taunting and talking fuzzy bunny to you is fun.

 

From what the old devs have stated on one of the old streams on Twitch was that CoOp Bot Destruction and CoOp TDM were two of the more popular gamemodes when Hawken released on Steam.  So I'd say expanding on that would be real cool.  However we mustn't forget our pvp players as well.

[Rmait]

I think we can thank WOT for the Pay to win thing as the higher level tanks just murder the lower levels with in your face mods and gold stuff ,  I really don't know why I keep playing it with all the hackers and cheating. 

 

I played Hawken from beta till the steam time.  steam killed it for me.  Too many times i waited for some update  or had steam updating in the background if i forgot to turn that part off first making my game have even worse lag.  too much stuff and too many people.  Also support is about non existent  if Hawken was on private servers I would play again.  Some of the models presented here sound good,  but I think you should wait on the season pass,  otherwise it starts looking like COD or Battlefield. The new players need some incentive to keep playing.  Maybe some better tutorials to educate people om how to advance your mech?  Or like was suggested  extra stuff for the first 25 skirmishes.  Heck I cant even find my old account on here. what do I know?

[Nept]

Sorry I am confused, and I mean no disrespect at all, but how will offering a package that will unlock all of the mechs and their attachments work against the game's perception as being a pay2win game? I'm probably missing something here...:T

 

But you raise some good points, and hopefully the Devs play their cards right and the odds are in their favor :)

 

No worries - at first glance the suggestion seems out of place.

 

When people complain about �pay2win,� they're typically doing so in the context of free-to-play games. By providing a complete package of mechs, abilities, items, and weapons at a reasonable price, the developers could convince potential customers that they're purchasing a full game. Players then have their choice of two options: purchase the full game, or play for free while grinding toward completion. Of course, this route would require strong communication from the developers. They would have to emphasize that non-paying players would have eventual full-game access through leveling, and that mech/weapon unlocks are sidegrades. (Yes, some changes would have to be made re: access to internals and items to ensure that they were truly sidegrades)

 

Also bears mentioning that developers (and forum communities) often underestimate the power of player ego. Although there were several factors that contributed to the pay2win perception surrounding Hawken, the most overlooked (and imo, the strongest) is the fact that players will look toward anything but themselves when explaining a loss. It's never their fault. No, it's the lag. Or the matchmaking. Or the hackers. Or the pay2win players in their pay2win mechs that are umpteen times better than yours. As a developer, you have to hammer into your playerbase (and any interviewers) the fact that pay2win mechanics are playing no part in their losses.

 

One last bit: Vanashinkaku (former developer) stated that their decision to include unlocks and levelling was based on data which demonstrated that players enjoy progression. At the same time, however, there were many players (and potential players) wanting to purchase a �full game� sans grinding. The aforementioned suggestions would satisfy both groups of players: those desiring a sense of progression (and to not pay), and those desiring the full game.

Edited by Nept, 23 March 2015 - 12:00 AM.

[Superkamikazee]

Excellent post OP.

 

Now I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like P2W is always a discussion when it comes to Hawken. We all know it's not P2W, but this all comes back to the free to play nature of Hawken and the need to have progression. I'm not so sure those two can exist in a FPS without players feeling the game is P2W. You can't have a satisfying or worthwhile progression system, "grind", and having stuff unlockable via purchase without running the risk of making the "grind" a pay wall so to speak. At the least it's quite easy to give off that impression to less experienced gamers. If there is no paid unlockables there is no discussion regarding P2W, you have to play to get better gear, the player with better gear or gear at all simply put some time into the game. 

 

In my perfect world the full Hawken experience is a $30 game, no free to play unlockable items. The progression system is your typical FPS ala BF or COD, you play, unlock stuff, get better gear, play more, unlock more gear, skins, paints, aesthetic parts etc etc. If the game has to be F2P, the only viable option is keeping it to cosmetics, if the past is any evidence of what doesn't work keeping the same model just isn't an option. And more so than ever games that are priced cheaper can still make money ie Cities Skylines. Make a great base game, price it relatively cheap, and if you don't want to spend a ton on resources adding content, open the game up to Steam Workshop. It's working out quite well for the Cities Skylines team. They've sold over 500,000 in the first week.

 

Finally, not sure if anyone listens to the GiantBomb podcast but they had a brief discussion about Hawken in episode 3/17/2015. They summed things up that Hawken is too arena shooter for a mech game. They said they saw the trailers, loved the look, tried the game out, and it wasn't the mech game they expected it to be. Not sure if this is indicative of what happened during the Steam launch, but yeah.

 

Anyways, glad the game is back, I really hope something positive comes of this new ownership. Hawken reaching huge success status is a long shot, but I hope it does. 

[RedVan]

 

Finally, not sure if anyone listens to the GiantBomb podcast but they had a brief discussion about Hawken in episode 3/17/2015. They summed things up that Hawken is too arena shooter for a mech game. They said they saw the trailers, loved the look, tried the game out, and it wasn't the mech game they expected it to be. Not sure if this is indicative of what happened during the Steam launch, but yeah.

"Too arena shooter for a mech game" is just people saying "I have an idea of what I think a mech game needs to be, and this isn't it".  Which is fine.  But people forget that mech games should not all be confined into a specific feel.  This feeling plays exactly into what Nept was talking about:  Arena shooters being a niche and mech games being a niche, both with followings that adhere to very specific standards for the most part, make for an extremely niche game when combined.  Thus, never gonna be as popular as your run of the mill shooters.

 

I am curios what trailers they watched... because the ones I watched before Alpha look more fast paced arena than the game is now...

[Superkamikazee]

"Too arena shooter for a mech game" is just people saying "I have an idea of what I think a mech game needs to be, and this isn't it".  Which is fine.  But people forget that mech games should not all be confined into a specific feel.  This feeling plays exactly into what Nept was talking about:  Arena shooters being a niche and mech games being a niche, both with followings that adhere to very specific standards for the most part, make for an extremely niche game when combined.  Thus, never gonna be as popular as your run of the mill shooters.

 

I am curios what trailers they watched... because the ones I watched before Alpha look more fast paced arena than the game is now...

 

Exactly, which just further predicates how absurd it is that Hawken is free to play. Hawken F2P is unsustainable, it will never have the sheer volume of players to keep it alive as a free to play game. A free to play game is at the mercy of players willingness to spend money on the game. A large percentage of players don't, so you need to make up for that with a huge population leaving you with a small portion (but enough) of that population that pays into the game. 

 

You and OP said it's a game combined with two niche genres, and history has already shown F2P wasn't a sustainable option for this particular mash up.

Edited by Superkamikazee, 23 March 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Silk_Sk]

These are all great insights about Hawken's flaws. But no one here seems to have mentioned the jenga block that began to topple the Hawken tower. The fact of the matter is, there was a time when the game wasn't perceived as P2W. The game had an absolutely brilliant system for easing new players into the game. Once that system was removed, new players stopped sticking with the game and thus began the decline. This system was HC bonuses for service awards. I wish I could link to the posts, but when the patch that removed them came about, I immediately called out that this would wreck the game's longevity, and I still believe I was correct. Here's why.

 

When a new player started Hawken, they got a flood of early service awards. When those came with HC, the players felt like the grind was nice and easy and they had breathing room to experiment with parts. Then, the service awards stop coming as quickly, and the HC cushion they had ran out. In order to earn more HC, they needed to get more service awards by playing with new mechs, winning in more modes, etc. It had a beautiful curve to it, the way it eased new players into the game and got them hooked, then made them want to continue playing even after their HC accrual rate slowed down. And even for players who had been around a while, there was the occasional big bonus award that gave something like 5000 HC. Those were great, the way they gave something for players to work towards.

 

And then the devs removed it. They took away HC bonuses for the vast majority of service awards.  I have much respect for them, but that was an incredibly stupid move. Sure, there are a few early awards that give HC but combined they can't even buy a weapon. Now, new players are forced to face the grind up front and thus we get all these P2W complaints. I used to be able to introduce friends to this game and they would continue playing. Not so, anymore. Now the game gives such a terrible first impression, reviewers who only play it for a week or two all say the grind is a real problem.

 

Now, I understand their reasons for that decision. They had just switched over to a new system of items and internals, and all of the players were refunded the HC they had paid in the previous model. I had something like 700,000 HC to burn, which was more than enough to pay for everything I had previously owned. The economy was slightly unbalanced. Still, I do not think they should have taken away HC bonuses. They were concerned that bundle purchases would not be as attractive, but I don't think that there would have been any significant drop in paying players. Not enough to justify the decision they made.

Edited by Silk_Sk, 23 March 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[defekt]

The game had an absolutely brilliant system for easing new players into the game. Once that system was removed, new players stopped sticking with the game and thus began the decline. This system was HC bonuses for service awards.

I'm inclined to broadly agree.

 

On a related note: the Hawken progression path was littered with newbie-traps that served no positive purpose in being there.  New players felt like they were unable to experiment, and worse, were often being punished for doing so by virtue of not being able to easily undo a poor purchase decision - they were quite literally saddled with their mistake for many hours of game time to come in trying to recoup their losses.  One might argue that other games don't always offer in-game refunds for bad purchases, and that would be true, but that's not a reason for Hawken not to be known for being newbie friendly in this regard.

[Superkamikazee]

Silk and Defekt, both really solid points.