104 replies to this topic

[Dew]

A shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

[RedVan]

lol xac @ 2:42 of first vid.  "all 3 spawned at 2, making a push for 1"  I bet he practiced saying that for weeks.

[LEmental]

Hahaha...

So, how much money did omni make with online gaming

Win any tournaments that are worth mentioning?

[JeffMagnum]

u got him good with that one

[Xacius]

Hahaha...

So, how much money did omni make with online gaming

Win any tournaments that are worth mentioning?

5.  5 whole 5's.  

 

Pretty sure most of us are either students or working professionals.   As others have stated, it's more of a "for fun/betterment" thing.  

[SS396]

5.  5 whole 5's.

Oh, make sure you fill that in on line 21 of your 1040.

#freetaxinfo

[DerMax]

After watching the videos, I can say I did not like the comms. They are too spammy, and a good chunk of them are either not useful or obvious from a brief look at the radar: "I'm repairing!", "I gotta fall back!", "I'm almost down!" etc. I think it might be useful to work on what you want and what you don't want in your comms.

 

This is important, because once you cut off all the useless chatter, you'll open up space for sub-team coordination. From what I've noticed (correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have sub-teams of 2 or 3 in your team, but it's highly useful to have people work in tight-knit pairs or triples, so that they can execute their go-to practiced strats for specific scenarios (e.g. recapturing an AA or silo with EMPs, coming from different angles at a position, or simply saying things like "Nept, I'm alpha-striking Xac, you finish him off with a powershot"). These mini-strats work very well, but you don't have the comm space for them.

[Nept]

Actually, there isn't much superfluous information within those comms.  It's quite easy to parse that amount of information once you've become acclimatized. 

 

*Edit*

 

Was mid-game, so couldn't respond at length.  Did want to expand on a few things, though.  Firstly, we instruct players to provide positional information because it helps their teammates build mental pictures of the battlefield - our shotcallers, especially.  Contrary to your assertion, that information isn't easily gleaned from radar, which is often ambiguous and/or unavailable (range-dependent, scoping SS, etc.).  Vocalization is simply faster and more direct.

 

Secondly, our members are extremely accustomed to working within small, fluid groups.  They don't typically vocalize their approaches and attack patterns because they don't need to: they've run through those permutations during practice.  Occasionally, though, you'll hear someone note events which may've gone unseen (e.g., cross-map sniper support, or an EMP strke).

 

As per the OP,

 

Once we were satisfied with our aim, we moved onto small-group coordination. Omni frequently ran 3v3's and 3v4's with players distributed as they might find themselves during matches. Our heavies (Leonhardt, hestoned, OmniStone, and devotion) would hold areas against our A's and B's, focusing on effective rotation and communication. Members were also taught to make intelligent, independent decisions that meshed well with our overarching strategies. As a result, all of our players were capable of leading small groups, or even the team at large. This redundancy ensured that we were very rarely caught flatfooted, even if our primary shot-caller were incapacitated.

 

Finally, our members implicitly prioritize voices and calls relevant to their positioning and to the situation.  Helps with parsing.

 

If you're bored and have the time, I'd suggest giving the videos another few watches (and listens).  I think they'll feel less cluttered as you adapt.  And adaptation should come fairly quickly, as those comms are (in our opinion) pretty simple to decipher.

 

In more complex sound filtration, we've things like this: http://www.bbc.com/n...bility-35550768

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 13 February 2016 - 01:39 AM.

[KejiGoto]

After watching the videos, I can say I did not like the comms. They are too spammy, and a good chunk of them are either not useful or obvious from a brief look at the radar: "I'm repairing!", "I gotta fall back!", "I'm almost down!" etc. I think it might be useful to work on what you want and what you don't want in your comms.

 

For me when that's all you need to say for your teammates to know what is up with you that means you're really know what you're doing and so does everyone else. Just simply saying "I'm falling back" and the team knows where you are and where you are heading shows that they have a great understanding of what they need to do be doing. Compare that to other teams who have to say "Falling back to rear side of the 3 to repair" takes a fair bit longer to say and ties up communications longer. Instead the team knows who it is, where they are, and where they are heading simply by declaring "I'm falling back."

 

From someone on the outside of course this doesn't mean much to you but when you practice with a group and all know each other's positions inside and out it's all the information you need.

[RedVan]

After watching the videos, I can say I did not like the comms. They are too spammy, and a good chunk of them are either not useful or obvious from a brief look at the radar: "I'm repairing!", "I gotta fall back!", "I'm almost down!" etc. I think it might be useful to work on what you want and what you don't want in your comms.

 

This is important, because once you cut off all the useless chatter, you'll open up space for sub-team coordination. From what I've noticed (correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have sub-teams of 2 or 3 in your team, but it's highly useful to have people work in tight-knit pairs or triples, so that they can execute their go-to practiced strats for specific scenarios (e.g. recapturing an AA or silo with EMPs, coming from different angles at a position, or simply saying things like "Nept, I'm alpha-striking Xac, you finish him off with a powershot"). These mini-strats work very well, but you don't have the comm space for them.

 

"Nept, I'm alpha-striking Xac, you finish him off with a powershot"

 

That's pretty superfluous imho.  I'd cut it down to "nept, target Xac".  Why?

"Alpha-striking":  Useless information.  Whether you fire one or all of your weapons isn't going to change what you are requesting nept to do.

"Finish him off":  Generally the purpose of engaging an enemy is to do just that.  Doesn't need to be said.

"With a powershot":  Hopefully you have enough trust in your teammates ability to properly utilize their chosen mechs.  A sharpshooter should be able to determine whether PS is required or not.

 

Quick, to the point, explanations are what good comm looks like.  Who, what, where.  "I'm repairing", "I gotta fall back", "I'm almost down" are all good examples of pertinent information expressed briefly as to reduce comm clutter.  Having listened in on TS during practices, scrims, and matches, even though not playing, I can paint a picture of what is going on based on the information they are passing.  Radar is nice and all, but it doesn't paint the same picture.  It is useful to enhance that picture, but it simply cannot express the same types of detail that can be quickly passed verbally.  Given the flow of the game, it is expected that constant verbal communication is had to maintain a full picture across all players.  Perhaps this is what you felt was "spammy".  It is simply multiple people feeding in data to the ever changing picture.

 

Of course, any communication can be considered "spammy" if one doesn't know what they're looking for.  Playing with people frequently and learning how they express things helps immensely in freeing up brain bytes.  Less time is spent thinking "what is he trying to tell me", and more time is spent responding to what he told you.  In my IRL job, I am fed a ton of verbal information very quickly, and am expected to be able to repeat it back.  Let me tell you, the first many times of doing it, it's a helmet fire.  The info is passed fast, there's a lot of it, so you drop a lot of the info.  You end up asking questions about things that shouldn't need to be repeated more than once.  It feels "spammy" and is pretty overwhelming.  99% of your brain bytes are occupied just trying to decipher what is being said.  As you gain experience, and learn how the info is passed, you start to recognize patterns.  Given time, you wind up using far less of your brain power on the communicating, and far more on the responding.  However, the same amount of information was passed, in the same amount of time.  It's just no longer perceived as "spammy" because your mind has adapted to it.

[1uster]

Didn't read all the responses. Just want to say thank you for the insight. Some interesting aspects to read and also much respect from my side - especially the personality/ego part is a always a good thing to work on. :)

Reminds me of the qualities of the German soccer team during last world cup two years ago. They were the only team which worked as an actual team with no big weakness but empowering each other ideally on "battlefield".

Edited by 1uster, 13 February 2016 - 02:42 AM.

[DerMax]

For me when that's all you need to say for your teammates to know what is up with you that means you're really know what you're doing and so does everyone else. Just simply saying "I'm falling back" and the team knows where you are and where you are heading shows that they have a great understanding of what they need to do be doing. Compare that to other teams who have to say "Falling back to rear side of the 3 to repair" takes a fair bit longer to say and ties up communications longer. Instead the team knows who it is, where they are, and where they are heading simply by declaring "I'm falling back."

 

From someone on the outside of course this doesn't mean much to you but when you practice with a group and all know each other's positions inside and out it's all the information you need.

I argue that you don't need even this little in a tight-knit team, considering they've played these scenarios over and over again. Although, I must admit that the relevance of specific comms is situational, and it must be viewed as such. For example, if you're alone on a silo, capturing it — with your team battling it out on the AA — and you suddenly catch a powershot from across the map, your "I'm repairing" would be irrelevant to your teammates, so you should either say nothing or, perhaps, communicate that the SS has no powershot. However, in a 2v2 situation, if you get badly damaged and start repairing (=can't help your partner), it's crucial that you voice this information, so that he can act accordingly. Same comm, different relevance.

 

Nept, I will rewatch your videos later and see if I agree with your points. The first watch gave me an impression that some comms were superfluous.

 

RedVan, thank you for a detailed response. None of what you've written about freeing brain bytes is news for me (which comes from years of comp experience outside of Hawken), but I agree with your comment on my example comm. In this case, you will have to pardon my being not a native English speaker. I would add, however, that the exact wording would depend on the situation at hand and the game mode you are playing. For instance, in PT1, we had the "TDM with one life" mode. There, it would be crucial that my teammate uses the powershot and not anything else, because you'd want to insta-kill the SS, lest he escapes into safety and you get killed trying to escape.

Edited by DerMax, 13 February 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

So I'm not the only one who felt the comms were spammy. 

[CraftyDus]

Dew is channeling righteousness here.
Hawken is at the height of its potential in a 6v6 of 2 dedicated teams in an objective mode.
Everything else is merely preparation for it.

[DieselCat]

All very impressive, but competitive play not really my cup of tea. I'm okay with with the general population in pub matches and hopefully with improvements to the game it will bring in many new players that will make for more consistent and balanced games at all levels of play and get rid of hackers, cheaters...etc.

Good work on your team concepts though...I like the practice ideas to improve ones skill. 

[coldform]

Dew is channeling righteousness here.
Hawken is at the height of its potential in a 6v6 of 2 dedicated teams in an objective mode.
Everything else is merely preparation for it.

This.
I can't even begin to describe the level of Gameplay when both teams are dedicated to the match, in the moment, with dedicated players putting just as much effort into being a part of a team as they putting effort into playing the game.
Even if ingame voip was working, pub hawken doesn't even come close. The difference is in orders of magnitude.
If you're knocking it before trying it, you will have no idea.

[talon70]

The OP although a pretty good read was barely an above average post. When you add the whole 'videos to come' part and not a single chart, this post was mediocre at best and some might argue incomplete. I would expect your next post in this forum to be much better.

[Hyginos]

"Nept, I'm alpha-striking Xac, you finish him off with a powershot"

 

That's pretty superfluous imho.  I'd cut it down to "nept, target Xac".

 

 

IMO the correct call would be "Xac low (or one hit, or ripe, or beeping, or lit, or whatever you prefer) at place".

 

If Nept knows where Xac is already, he probably knows that Xac is low simply by context. In a situation where you trust the agency of all the players, simply calling a target's location and health gives everyone in the channel as much information as they need to decide if they should act on it, and to act on successfully it if they so choose.

[Xacius]

The OP although a pretty good read was barely an above average post. When you add the whole 'videos to come' part and not a single chart, this post was mediocre at best and some might argue incomplete. I would expect your next post in this forum to be much better.

You strike me as the kind of person that only reads picture books.  

[Nept]

The OP although a pretty good read was barely an above average post. When you add the whole 'videos to come' part and not a single chart, this post was mediocre at best and some might argue incomplete. I would expect your next post in this forum to be much better.

 

You strike me as the kind of person that only reads picture books.  

 

Two birds, one stone.

[CraftyDus]

he's ripe!

he's ripe!

"where?"

HE'S RIPE!

[devotion]

Two birds, one stone.

the alternative version:

 

[M4st0d0n]

Wot? Competitive is leaving Hawken's beta again?

 

Damn testers these days.

[coldform]

Wot? Competitive is leaving Hawken's beta again?

Damn testers these days.

But the casual is here to stay

[Jelooboi]

MMR isn't a random number, so it isn't "just" a number. Sure, the variance in player skill may be pretty wide sub 2000 MMR, but it becomes more accurate at representing player skill the higher the MMR.

 

Put another way: you can discredit MMR all you want, but I'm relatively certain that you aren't going to get a team of 2300 MMR players to beat a team on Omni's level. Not unless you put them through rigorous training - and I'm talking nine months of intense drills at best. At that point, you've essentially taken a 2300 MMR team and nurtured their game until their MMR grew to near-Omni levels.

 

If you had a team with a 2600 MMR average then you'd probably need less time for training, etc.

meh, too many tryhards in hawken. Why can't everyone just play g2 raider and have a life