56 replies to this topic

[Merl61]

Last night during the SASC vs. Crushinator pre-season match I did some really unsportsmanlike stuff. I'm not proud of it, and only after watching their reactions to it do I truly understand how despicable it was. There's a time and place for bm. It is not in an official match. At the time I was proud. Now I feel ashamed and disgusted by my actions. I want to sincerely apologize to all of SASC. I messed up. Bigtime. I will be sitting out of our next pre-season game voluntarily. I want you all to know that that person who you saw last night is not who I want to be. I have been trying for a long to leave the arrogant hothead behind. I obviously haven't been trying enough. Once again I'm sorry. I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me. Thank you all for the first really good match. I'd love to do the second one over, but I can't. I want to make things right and that starts by admitting that I was really, really wrong. GGs. I'll see you on the battlefield.

 

Merl

[Badtings]

Good man. Nice post. 

[CrimsonKaim]

Can we have a section in the Off-Topic forum since apologies are actually not that Hawken related?

 

 

In addition, you seem to be very sad of your 'actions' ... I am curious ... would like to know whatcha did ;O

[Flifang]

At least you apologize what you do merl, that's more than can be said for a lot of people.

[Merl61]

Can we have a section in the Off-Topic forum since apologies are actually not that Hawken related?

 

 

In addition, you seem to be very sad of your 'actions' ... I am curious ... would like to know whatcha did ;O

I taunted after every kill and even a few times before. This is in general so it will be seen, and it is Hawken related

[americanbrit14]

At least you apologize what you do merl, that's more than can be said for a lot of people.

to quote myself "If everyone in hawken did this every time a fight broke out, hawken would be a much more 'kid friendly' place"

[Ninja_Goat]

@Merl,

 

I only know you by reputation, and to be really honest, based purely on rep I wasn't surprised by the first part of your post.

 

BUT it takes a big man to reflect on their actions, and admit they were wrong and apologize.  The actions themselves are irrelevant, its your reaction that matters.  Well done for that, and its a big step forward.

 

Also

 

I saw the stream of when you visited KDR recently, and you behaved like a star.  You even squad led, brilliantly, and that Merl was a great addition to any game.  

Keep striving to be that Merl and you can't go far wrong.  

[DeeRax]

[americanbrit14]

ya know, i never knew the hawken forums had people that gave positive reinforcement to other people.

[Merl61]

@Merl,

 

I only know you by reputation, and to be really honest, based purely on rep I wasn't surprised by the first part of your post.

 

BUT it takes a big man to reflect on their actions, and admit they were wrong and apologize.  The actions themselves are irrelevant, its your reaction that matters.  Well done for that, and its a big step forward.

 

Also

 

I saw the stream of when you visited KDR recently, and you behaved like a star.  You even squad led, brilliantly, and that Merl was a great addition to any game.  

Keep striving to be that Merl and you can't go far wrong.  

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

[LEmental]

I watched the videos and I honestly don't understand what Merl did wrong.  According to the TPG rules, taunting is perfectly legal.

 

Spoiler

§7 Violations
Code of Conduct

All players and teams are expected to adhere to the following code of conduct. Any action by an individual player, or action by a collection of players from the same Team, found to be in violation of the code of conduct by league administrators can result in disciplinary action by the league.

 

§7.1 Acceptable Team/Player Names
Team and/or players names including, but not limited to, the following content will not be permitted: profanity, bigotry or hate to any race, sex, or religious group; drug use and other content deemed inappropriate by the league.

 

§7.2 Acceptable Player Conduct
The use of vulgar, bigoted or profane speech, or harassment of players/teams and league administrators will not be tolerated. This includes any and all TPG communication methods/Interactions with TPG (i.e. emails, support tickets, match communication messages and submitted evidence).

Any player found crashing and/or spamming VOIPs, servers or sending packets to a player, will be removed from the league permanently.

Teams that knowingly and willingly allow suspended players to join their roster will be removed from the league, and all players on that team may be suspended. This same punishment also applies if a team lets a suspended player use one of their member's Hawken accounts.

1. Impersonating a TPG Admin will result in a 3 Month Suspension.

a. This includes:

i. Taking up a TPG Admin’s Name and pretending to be them.

ii. Claiming to be a TPG Admin when you are not one.

iii. Claiming a TPG Admin said something to you or gave you permission to do something when they did not.

Using TPG's FTP (without TPG's Consent) to share your personal files is not allowed and will result in the offending users being blocked/banned if necessary.

 

§7.3 Acceptable In-game conduct
In-game activity includes the warm-up period leading up to a match, half-time while on a match server and the time immediately after a match while a player is connected to a match server.

While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect. Any player(s) or team(s) found in violation of the code of conduct, as stated above, will be disciplined as follows:

Players will be suspended from participation in the league based on the level of the infraction at TPG Administration's discretion.

Edited by LEmental, 15 June 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Merl61]

I watched the videos and I honestly don't understand what Merl did wrong.  According to the TPG rules, taunting is perfectly legal.

 

Spoiler

§7 Violations
Code of Conduct

All players and teams are expected to adhere to the following code of conduct. Any action by an individual player, or action by a collection of players from the same Team, found to be in violation of the code of conduct by league administrators can result in disciplinary action by the league.

 

§7.1 Acceptable Team/Player Names
Team and/or players names including, but not limited to, the following content will not be permitted: profanity, bigotry or hate to any race, sex, or religious group; drug use and other content deemed inappropriate by the league.

 

§7.2 Acceptable Player Conduct
The use of vulgar, bigoted or profane speech, or harassment of players/teams and league administrators will not be tolerated. This includes any and all TPG communication methods/Interactions with TPG (i.e. emails, support tickets, match communication messages and submitted evidence).

Any player found crashing and/or spamming VOIPs, servers or sending packets to a player, will be removed from the league permanently.

Teams that knowingly and willingly allow suspended players to join their roster will be removed from the league, and all players on that team may be suspended. This same punishment also applies if a team lets a suspended player use one of their member's Hawken accounts.

1. Impersonating a TPG Admin will result in a 3 Month Suspension.

a. This includes:

i. Taking up a TPG Admin’s Name and pretending to be them.

ii. Claiming to be a TPG Admin when you are not one.

iii. Claiming a TPG Admin said something to you or gave you permission to do something when they did not.

Using TPG's FTP (without TPG's Consent) to share your personal files is not allowed and will result in the offending users being blocked/banned if necessary.

 

§7.3 Acceptable In-game conduct
In-game activity includes the warm-up period leading up to a match, half-time while on a match server and the time immediately after a match while a player is connected to a match server.

While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect. Any player(s) or team(s) found in violation of the code of conduct, as stated above, will be disciplined as follows:

Players will be suspended from participation in the league based on the level of the infraction at TPG Administration's discretion.

It's not a question of the rules. It's a question of personal integrity and respect. No one is telling me to do this. I simply feel that it has to be done. 

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

I watched part of the stream last night. Fun stuff, learned a lot I think. Too bad didn't have sound :(. I think people need to realize the MUAHAHAHA isn't personal. Part of the fun of the game is burning your enemies down and reveling in it. The beauty of hawken is one day youre tops next day youre bottoms. Now that being said I don't condone personal attacks or whatever but a friendly good time sh it talk meh, not worst thing in world and might get some people to play more serious and tighter. Just saying. From what I saw you're fine merl or mal3 whatever I know when I see you in room I play better. Eventually dat ass will belong to me! Me likey deflating big heads.... MUAHAHAHA. ;)

[CraftyDus]

@ Ellie:  Nobody was going to make a dispute issue over it, but in the spirit of this section:

 

"§7.3 Acceptable In-game conduct
In-game activity includes the warm-up period leading up to a match, half-time while on a match server and the time immediately after a match while a player is connected to a match server.
While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect...."

 

Talk mad $hit all you want in scrims, but match time the expectations are those of competition level players.

 

I think Merl gets it, and I'm guessing his opponents can appreciate the gesture of this post. Good on him.

Edited by Crafty, 15 June 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[LEmental]

"While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect"

This is so vague.  Are holo taunts banned?

 

 

I would also like to reference an excerpt from David Sirlin's book, Playing to Win.

 

http://www.sirlin.ne...k/sportsmanship

Edited by LEmental, 15 June 2015 - 10:46 AM.

[comic_sans]

Appreciated, but generally public apologies to a private "infraction" (gotta get the oven mitts for a word that serious in a video game situation) come off as the sorry person being more worried about their reputation than the feelings of those offended.

[Merl61]

Appreciated, but generally public apologies to a private "infraction" (gotta get the oven mitts for a word that serious in a video game situation) come off as the sorry person being more worried about their reputation than the feelings of those offended.

If I gave a fuzzy bunny about my rep I wouldn't have done it in the first place. Obviously I would rather have people like me, but everyone isn't going to so I just have to deal with that. The truth is that I feel awful about what I did and I know that many people didn't even know that it happened. The public post was to inform people about what I did from my perspective, and to let them know that I am not proud of it. If they still want to hate me then that's fine.

[CraftyDus]

"While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect"

This is so vague.  Are holo taunts banned?

 

 

I would also like to reference an except from David Sirlin's book, Playing to Win.

 

http://www.sirlin.ne...k/sportsmanship

 

 

No. Holotaunts are not banned, nor are mech taunts.

 

I've only ever seen a warning issued for excessive "negging"  during a match. Which is it's closest pecedent.

This is a bind that produced a shout of "negative!" from the player's in-game character voice.

 

 

However if players other than captains or their privileged players are typing in global chat, that is an mm1 violation and can be reason for dispute by opposing captains.

 

I've seen a head admin banned for 6 months for an mm1 violation dispute just last year.

 

"Handle: ko
Team: g.skiLL
Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:56411
Start Date: Feb 19 2014
End Date: Apr 10 2014
Rule Violation: 7.4
Reason: Incomplete Evidence, MM1, Inappropriate Player Conduct"

 

For the record it was some pretty nasty racist comments during a match.

 

I'd invite David Sirlin to reference TPG's rules regarding in-match player conduct.

 

They preceed his book by a half dozen years of practical experience.

Edited by Crafty, 15 June 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[DerMax]

You could have created a PM discussion here on the forums, invited all the SASC guys and apologized to them in private. Instead, you create a thread in General Discussion.

 

 

Why?

[Aregon]

You could have created a PM discussion here on the forums, invited all the SASC guys and apologized to them in private. Instead, you create a thread in General Discussion.

 

 

Why?

Makes you look damn good to the community.

[LaurenEmily]

Wait this isn't in off topic ? o.o

[CraftyDus]

You could have created a PM discussion here on the forums, invited all the SASC guys and apologized to them in private. Instead, you create a thread in General Discussion.

 

 

Why?

 

He's showing publicly that he's gonna be a damn decent gentleman about it.

 

Edited by Crafty, 15 June 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

I taunted after every kill and even a few times before.

 

Wait, nothing more? Just holo and mech taunts?

[LEmental]

Wait, nothing more? Just holo and mech taunts?

wiggle of the camera and 'c' spam

[SS396]

Wait this isn't in off topic ? o.o

 

It was, then someone reported it, and the mods moved it.  If you go to the general listing you can see the title and the <- indicating a thread move.  Shrug.

 

 

BTW Merl, if you'd like I can send you the keybinding code I created so that every time you press a key or fire a TOW,  item, or even tap left mouse button, it'll fire off a holotaunt.  That way nobody can say you were targeting anyone directly.   

[LaurenEmily]

180 spinning with some repair spamming, camera wiggling & a holo-emote topped off by the most annoying mech taunt in the market is pretty much obligatory.

Spoiler

Actually i hate it & it's just scumbaggy

[Elite_is_salty]

Are we really gonna have an NA vs EU saga? Where some EU fuzzy bunnys gonna hate on every TPG thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y'all trippin ... y'all know that AFRICA will prevail.

[CraftyDus]

Are we really gonna have an NA vs EU saga? Where some EU fuzzy bunnys gonna hate on every TPG thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y'all trippin ... y'all know that AFRICA will prevail.

 

TPG HWK EU INCOMING!!!!!

 

http://www.tpgleague.org/hwkeu/rules/

 

[Nept]

7.3 Acceptable In-Game Conduct

In-game activity includes the warm-up period leading up to a match, half-time while on a match server and the time immediately after a match while a player is connected to a match server.

 

While In-game, players are to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner, with maturity and respect. Any player(s) or team(s) found in violation of the code of conduct, as stated above, will be disciplined as follows:

 

Players will be suspended from participation in the league based on the level of the infraction at TPG Administration's discretion.

 

Crafty already linked this section, but it's worth repeating.  At the end of the day, no matter how you couch this behaviour with "tactics" and "not technically against the rules," you're behaving like a douche.  You're being disrespectful to your opponents, and you're forgetting that they're hoping to have fun - even during a loss.  Honestly, LEmental, I'm surprised you aren't upset with his actions given your previous opinions on respect re: teams not playing to their maximum.

 

Would we have taken immediate disciplinary action against Merl for his taunting?  No, probably not.  I had been planning to speak with his captain, though, and to strongly recommend that future behaviour be improved.  I was happy to see that he'd already taken it upon himself to apologize.  Nice work, Merl.

 

As for everyone else, it's pretty simple stuff: Don't be a fuzzy bunny toward your opponents.

Edited by Nept, 15 June 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[LoC_TR]

As Crushinator's team captain I'll say our team does not condone or encourage this behavior. It's one thing to holo taunt after a fun fight or a funny moment but it's unsportsmanlike to spam continuously throughout the match. I am partially responsible for the behavior of my team, SASC is a large part of this tiny community and I don't want there to be any hard feelings, you will not see this attitude in any match against Crushinator in the future. 

[ArchMech]

i cant get this gif in a post so here

http://giphy.com/gif...s-374pcIBVEGb6g

 

you may all go about your way now, nothing to see here thank you for your time now get on with it

[LoC_TR]

 now get on with it

1v1 me S*C*R*U*B*

Edited by LoC_TR, 15 June 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Dedhed]

 To the effort to become more the person you want to be. Been doing this for a little over seven months myself and I can definitely say it works wonders.

 

For me, it was finally being completely and thoroughly tired of the life that came with addiction that made me want to change and I'm very glad to be following that path now.

 

Naturally, addiction is not an issue for everyone. However introspection, self awareness and true honesty about what one has really been doing versus what one wants to do and be can be very beneficial for any and every individual.

 

+1 for personal growth

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Dedhed, in general just great advice for self examination, regardless of situation. +1

[AsianJoyKiller]

I remember watching a draft match for a professional, sponsored team in a moba.
One player taunted during the preface, and after a few kills.

After the match was done, he got chewed out by one of the scouts.

The basic reasoning was because not only was it needlessly disrespectful, but it wasted time and in the case of the pregame needlessly revealed positions.

So for anybody wondering why taunting and the like are seen as a big deal, think about the context as less like an after-work/school activity to blow off steam, and more of a professional sport.

[XPloyt]

Wait, nothing more? Just holo and mech taunts?

 

wiggle of the camera and 'c' spam

 

Oh no, not the camera wiggle!

 

>Passes out in disbelief

>Falls out of chair

 

Hawken has bigger problems. It's ok to be annoyed, but it sounds like he was just poking fun. If he was being a douche in TS then perhaps an apology might've been necessary.

 

I would love to see a gif of a mech taunt in a kill cam preceded by a person angrily shaking their fist at the screen....and a pitchfork.

[CrimsonKaim]

I feel like Merl wrote an apology for something that is quite normal, like "sorry for being good".

[Grollourdo]

I allwaulys thought u wrlere nice Merl, guess I miss judged you and was blind to the arrogant you... But Noe that I finished reading this appology, I think of you as an even nicer person XD

Nice post man

[Merl61]

I feel like Merl wrote an apology for something that is quite normal, like "sorry for being good".

NORMALLY... In a pub match, it would be fine. In an official scrim? No way. There is an expected level of professionalism. I failed miserably at hitting those expectations. End of story.

[CrimsonKaim]

As long as you feel better now it is alright I guess o: