30 replies to this topic

[LoliconBukakke]

I've been thinking about this for a while and i think i finally have a semi-presentable idea. Please keep in mind that this is just am idea, i haven't been thinking too much about stats such as armor, fuel tank, etc yet. 

 

Im terrible with creative names, so im just calling it the longbow for now. This is going to be a unique mech where it's strengths lie in defensive assassinations. The primary weapons would include shorter-ranged models such as the SMG, vulcan, or any of the tech guns, while the secondary would be a large gauss rifle. Instead of the secondary being where it normally is, however, it takes place of the arms on the mech. being a heavy mech, the arms are the large metal chunks above the cockpit, and would only be able to be fire while in an alternate siege mode. This mode would stop any movement besides turning, and displays a colored laser wherever you're aiming.  It would also be cancel able by boosting in any direction to prevent the user from becoming a total sitting duck. These all sound like a lot of downsides, but the gauss cannon's firepower would make up for it by large, 300 damage shots. Firing the cannon, however, would instantly overhead your weapon system preventing another shot, or any possible self defense for the next few seconds. 

 

Like I said above, this is only an idea and im open to any suggestions or criticism to make this a more balanced mech.  

[ZombieBiscuit]

G2 Sharpshooter

[Z1Alpha]

300 damage shot.You do realize A's have 300ish health right. Anything doing that much damage is just to much. I think a sniper heavy would be cool, but I don't have any good idea on what would work well with a heavy sniper, but I do know, 300 is to much.

[LoliconBukakke]

300 damage shot.You do realize A's have 300ish health right. Anything doing that much damage is just to much. I think a sniper heavy would be cool, but I don't have any good idea on what would work well with a heavy sniper, but I do know, 300 is to much.

A classes are also harder to hit. With the laser sight warning sign they have plenty of time to maneuver out of the way with their tiny A legs. I chose 300 because it doesn't kill any full health mech in one hit, but still deals a ton of damage. This and the fact that the longbow cant move around would allow anyone, including a-class, to be able to run to a wall in the line of sight.

[sabrehawk90]

A classes are also harder to hit. With the laser sight warning sign they have plenty of time to maneuver out of the way with their tiny A legs. I chose 300 because it doesn't kill any full health mech in one hit, but still deals a ton of damage. This and the fact that the longbow cant move around would allow anyone, including a-class, to be able to run to a wall in the line of sight.

 

Interesting ideas with balancing that 300 damage shot out; however, if this laser warning thing works like I think it does, if this guy can get a surprise shot on you, and another enemy is moderately close, they can easily put an A-Class mech down in no time if they get the jump. As a pilot of light mechs, I'll often get surprised by a sniper, seeing as they can not appear on radar while sitting on a ledge so far away, essentially unnoticable unless i'm staring close enough to them. Escpecially on Origin. I'll get shot a couple times by a sharpie, get hit down to 60% health, dodge into cover, and try to remember not go out that side of the AA.

 

Well, unless I'm an infiltrator. Then I backstab them. 

 

G2 Sharpshooter

 

But yes, this concept would make an interesting G2 Sharpshooter. They need more G2 mechs. Maybe tweak the the damage output to around 200-250 damage? That seems to be a good medium regarding light mechs. Not sure about B and C class mechs, though.

Edited by sabrehawk90, 23 March 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[LoliconBukakke]

Interesting ideas with balancing that 300 damage shot out; however, if this laser warning thing works like I think it does, if this guy can get a surprise shot on you, and another enemy is moderately close, they can easily put an A-Class mech down in no time if they get the jump. As a pilot of light mechs, I'll often get surprised by a sniper, seeing as they can not appear on radar while sitting on a ledge so far away, essentially unnoticable unless i'm staring close enough to them. Escpecially on Origin. I'll get shot a couple times by a sharpie, get hit down to 60% health, dodge into cover, and try to remember not go out that side of the AA.

 

Well, unless I'm an infiltrator. Then I backstab them. 

 

 

But yes, this concept would make an interesting G2 Sharpshooter. They need more G2 mechs.

Im not quite sure what you mean either, but the laser is going to be a straight, team colored line from the longbow to whatever its aiming at. And i mean team colored as in what you see on your hud, so for me if it was friendly the line would be green and an enemy line would be red. 

[LoliconBukakke]

Still open to discuss

[claisolais]

I guess he means that even you have a laser, it  is still hard for mech to notice(a warning like hellfire? ..idk) , even we do, we still need time to go to the cover--in this case, enough for a death.(no one would like to back off and heal himself when he has still 80% of health).

I have been looking forward to have a long ranged heavy mech, but this is just too op for the team. However, it suits better when we have old heath level, like, before the steam update?

[LaurenEmily]

Wouldn't this just essentially be a rocketeer with more damage ? with the aim warning & all that.

[Aregon]

Wouldn't this just essentially be a rocketeer with more damage ? with the aim warning & all that.

Not really, a sniper C-class would most likely have a lot of health to make up for the speed, and a lot in damage but very long reloads.

The Rocketeer is a mech that required you to be passively aggressive to hit, and is best at mid-close range.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Not really, a sniper C-class would most likely have a lot of health to make up for the speed, and a lot in damage but very long reloads.

The Rocketeer is a mech that required you to be passively aggressive to hit, and is best at mid-close range.

If you use HF only.  If it was the heat cannon, then mid/long.  You get the guy to dodge the HFs but gets hit by your heat round.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 24 March 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[Duralumi]

first, please no more sniperinos they are the second least fun thing to fight after the tech for different reasons

Second, 300 damage is absolutely re-donk-u-lous. The Sharpshooter can't even break 200 last I checked, even with its ability active. The only mech other than the Predator (static traps) that can approach that level of damage is a Raider with fully-charged EOC-R and a clean hit from the MIRV.

Third, part of Hawken's charm is that players aren't often forced into strict roles (with the exception of the Technician which is broken anywho). With all the downsides you'd have to put in place to """balance""" a 300-damage shot, the mech might as well not exist if it isn't halfway across the map from its foe.

[Kopra]

first, please no more sniperinos they are the second least fun thing to fight after the tech for different reasons

Second, 300 damage is absolutely re-donk-u-lous. The Sharpshooter can't even break 200 last I checked, even with its ability active. The only mech other than the Predator (static traps) that can approach that level of damage is a Raider with fully-charged EOC-R and a clean hit from the MIRV.

Third, part of Hawken's charm is that players aren't often forced into strict roles (with the exception of the Technician which is broken anywho). With all the downsides you'd have to put in place to """balance""" a 300-damage shot, the mech might as well not exist if it isn't halfway across the map from its foe.

 

Power shot with Slug & Sabot:

 

(60+110)*1.25 = 212,5

 

 

300 damage is probably too much for a hitscan shot either way, even with turret mode requirement and laser sight.

[Duralumi]

Power shot with Slug & Sabot:

 

(60+110)*1.25 = 212,5

 

Ah, mistake on my part!

But even then, 212.5 leaves realistic room for response from the target.

300 would leave all A-classes with enough health so that they'd literally die in three or four Assault Rifle rounds.

[LoliconBukakke]

After reading everything above i have an idea. What if the gauss cannon has a charging meter, like the breacher. As the rifle charges up, the laser would become thicker to represent the potential damage.The charging would allow plenty of reaction time for whoever is being aimed at, and still leave them with plenty of health if the shooter decides to cut off some of the wait time.

[Onstrava]

You know how long I've been waiting for a G2 SS, XD the ideas of what it would be had me staying up for days. The ideas went to a railgun, to 3 burst rifle, to lasers and everthing in between, hell even changing the mech to a D type quad leg going into siege mode. I wish and I mean I WISH to see what it would be, I would love to change from the fragile B type SS to a mech with more health and alittle more bang.

[devotion]

ss is very strong as is. it doesn't have good mechanics to mesh with bulky c classes, nor should a variant be made with even more damage, imo.

[LoliconBukakke]

ss is very strong as is. it doesn't have good mechanics to mesh with bulky c classes, nor should a variant be made with even more damage, imo.

i never said anything about this being a g2, thats everyone else up there.

[Zilph]

I'm all for having a C class precision shot mech, but I really don't think this is the way to go about it, sorry.

 

Love the idea, but needs to be revised. No need to bring out so many disadvantages for that much power, when really the power could be within reason and have the mech still mobile. 

 

Going into the typical C class turret mode to use the cannon is a good idea, but it shouldn't be a 'lockdown' of sorts, even the reduced mobility is better than no mobility. The idea of Hawken isn't just that we have tanks... We have highly mobile tanks. Mechs. Its secondary weapon, when not in turret mode, could function more along the lines of a normal damage range weapon, like the sharpshooter's sabot. When in turret mode, the gauss cannon should pack a punch, but not 300, sorry. Even if you balance it out with excessive disadvantages just so you can have 300 damage, then that's all it's good for. It becomes a one trick pony.

 

...That's not to say your idea should be discarded. Like I said, I love the idea of a C class sniper that packs a punch like a railgun or whatever, but the idea just needs to be discussed and reworked.

Edited by Zilph, 24 March 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[Nept]

I think that this mech needs to happen immediately.

 

Edited by Nept, 24 March 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[LoliconBukakke]

I'm all for having a C class precision shot mech, but I really don't think this is the way to go about it, sorry.

 

Love the idea, but needs to be revised. No need to bring out so many disadvantages for that much power, when really the power could be within reason and have the mech still mobile. 

 

Going into the typical C class turret mode to use the cannon is a good idea, but it shouldn't be a 'lockdown' of sorts, even the reduced mobility is better than no mobility. The idea of Hawken isn't just that we have tanks... We have highly mobile tanks. Mechs. Its secondary weapon, when not in turret mode, could function more along the lines of a normal damage range weapon, like the sharpshooter's sabot. When in turret mode, the gauss cannon should pack a punch, but not 300, sorry. Even if you balance it out with excessive disadvantages just so you can have 300 damage, then that's all it's good for. It becomes a one trick pony.

 

...That's not to say your idea should be discarded. Like I said, I love the idea of a C class sniper that packs a punch like a railgun or whatever, but the idea just needs to be discussed and reworked.

That's what this thread is suppose to be about, discussing the idea. I just had hoped for more people discussing how-to-fix instead of what-to-fix

[Zilph]

That's what this thread is suppose to be about, discussing the idea. I just had hoped for more people discussing how-to-fix instead of what-to-fix

 

Then, I guess let's get down to more discussion!

 

Look, one thing the majority agrees on is that 300 is a tad too much. We could gimp the mech as much as we want in other areas, give it tons of disadvantages, but that doesn't make it a good idea. SS with that ~215 max is already something that chunks players and their health bars, pretty much softening them up for a team mate to take out... But 300 wouldn't be softening someone up, it'd be serving them up on a platter. 

 

I think it'd benefit this mech to have lower damage output without as many disadvantages. But as for damage, we still want this gauss/railgun/cannon beastie to pack a punch, we just need to consider gameplay over the 'awesome' factor, sorry. 

 

So WITH the SS ability, we can hit ~215 (guys, that that include a shot from the slug rifle? Or just the secondary?). So with this mech, if we get the armament it's popular for by locking down, we're essentially using an ability. However, as a C class turret mode, there's no cooldown besides fire rate of the weapon itself, whereas the SS has to wait for a hefty cooldown before it can reach that 200 quota again. So it only stands to reason that the big beastie cannon that can fire more often would have a lower damage rating, BUT, still brought higher than the standard output of the SS without using its ability. I'm looking at something like 180, what do you guys think?

 

HOWEVER... This is assuming that we even have the signature weapon available/boosted with a C class turret mode, I'm just assuming. These details need to be worked out. I also see it as the best possible approach imo.

 

But aside from all this, we need to consider its standard armaments when not using its ability. Of course, short range weapons like the SMC, RPR, even that burst weapon I haven't used (everyone keeps suggesting we need individual mech weapons, so that we can buff damage on one SMC for one mech and not another... this would be perfect because that burst weapon needs a serious buff for any other mech, but works with tech well) so that it can have a range of personal defense weapons, as such. It can still 'partially' handle itself in a fight or duel, at least contributing to a chaotic team fight on short notice instead of having to position perfectly to use its cannon just to be useful.

 

As for its secondary weapon, this brings on the question of whether or not it should be THE cannon we're talking about. Standard damage weapon, precise but hard to hit in normal fighting, just like the sabot. But when locked down or switched into the turret mode, it acts as the beefy weapon. But this is where we REALLY need to discuss, as you want the cannon in place of the C class 'arms'. Does this mean it gets no damage mitigation when in turret mode due to a lack of arms acting as riot shields? Does this mean that we need another secondary weapon unrelated to its sniper cannon as the cannon sits atop it? Is the sniper cannon the secondary? Who was phone?

 

That's my two cents, AND just my suggestions on what we really need to discuss here. What about you guys?

[LoliconBukakke]

Then, I guess let's get down to more discussion!

The 300 damage is a lot, i know but keep in mind that hawken is a game with a big emphasis on mobility. The only way to achieve this firepower is to sacrifice all or most of your own mobility. The damage was really just the first number to come in mind thinking of other mech's HP's. If we are to change it, the power should be at least on par with the SS's power shot combo because of how visible you would be to other players. Even if there was no laser sight, you are still a big, semi-immobile C-class. The bigger mech can handle the bigger gun. As for the cooldown requirement on the ability, thats another reason for the little to no mobility. It would be a heavier shot but easier to avoid because of the warning and the knowledge that the railgun wont be moving very far from it's current position. Along with the fact that shooting the gauss once would overheat your systems could balance the cooldowns if we gave it a longer overheating period of time. 

 

The less damage/less disadvantages could work, but that would be just silly when you think about it doing less damage than it's smaller damage counterpart: the sabot. Especially when you consider how a gauss cannon works. Right now im picturing the damage in the 200-300 range with a long cooldown. The cooldown would have to be on the heat systems. Something like turret and non-turret modes having separate heat systems could work if the primary weapons weren't able to fire while in the mode to prevent abuse where you could fire for twice as long. But then again the incinerator is able to fire nonstop so it's another idea to go over. 

 

As for the primary, i agree with the whole separate weapon for every class idea to just make valence a little simpler. Im not quite sure what to give it in terms of this weapon though. An assault rifle could make it too strong at range, but an smg could make it useless at range if it cant shoot the railgun.

 

The large turret gun would take place of the arms preventing any sort of protection from fire. This is why i called it a defensive assassin. Picture a standard match of siege. While its watching the point for afar or sitting on the point there is time to wait and aim while in your immobile state, but if you wanted to attack an enemy point you would have to set up somewhere where you would probably be seen and taken care of with relative ease. Unless, of course, you wanted to rush them alone with your smg like i see too many people doing. I said above the cannon was the secondary, and would be unable to fire unless in turret mode because its pretty much on your back. A sabot design would be nice, but it would lead to complications about shooting it in normal mech mode.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I pretty much the entirety of your suggestion, LoliconBukkake. I think the design you have put forward has a very strong, distinct factors to it that would make it unique to Hawken that also balances itself out. I also agree with the 200-300 damage range that you have provided -- I think your suggestion has enough counter-balancing points that are themselves unique to Hawken.

 

I would, however, say that 300 is probably too high on the damage range, strictly because even if enemy players have a 1-1.5 sec grace period wherein the targetting laser is visible, a skilled player who only needs to focus on aiming at a target would have too easy a time getting that 300 damage off. I still think the number should be in the 225-275 range.

 

I would like to add to your suggestion that the secondary weapon can be fired while in walking mode, but that the shot fired is an EOC-speed projectile that deals only moderate damage (maybe on par with a slightly buffed Slug Rifle).

 

I love your idea and suggestion though. I think this is a great, distinct mech for Hawken that has lots of factors to control for its theme, and your arguments to defend it are pretty much on par.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 24 March 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[Arkhaun]

Plz no to the idea of a c class sniper. its bad enough with xXx420no$kopesxXx joining your games and going 1 for every 11 deaths

[LoliconBukakke]

Plz no to the idea of a c class sniper. its bad enough with xXx420no$kopesxXx joining your games and going 1 for every 11 deaths

There are going to be different skill levels for every mech ever available. No one is going to be a pro at a mech as soon as they get in the cockpit. If you really want to get away from people like that you should find an actual team instead of matching up with randoms. 

[Amazia]

 

 

-snip-

So WITH the SS ability, we can hit ~215 (guys, that that include a shot from the slug rifle? Or just the secondary?)

-snip-

that's with both primary and secondary.

 

 

 

I think that the basic idea is great, I would love something a bit more tanky than the SS. but it needs a little work, here are my suggestions:

• As stated multiple times above, 300 is too much. Granted, it was a number off the top of your head, so I don't blame you. I would suggest 220 - 240 ish.
• with that much damage, there needs to be something to counter for that, I suggest one of the following: make the shot non-hitscan (possibly warning pilot of targeted mech), require weapon to be charged prior to shot,  or my personal choice, when the trigger is pulled there is a delay (no more than half a second?), and you can't change your aim during that delay as the weapon charges. the last one would make the weapon very effective against sitting targets, but rather difficult to use against moving targets.
• in turret mode, the weapon needs to have a long reload time, a REALLY long reload time. I'm thinking ~30 seconds, but that feels extreme.
• the weapon still needs to be useful in some way outside of turret mode. I'm thinking something similar to the SABOT, as a fairly slow fairly heavy weapon. (Possibly switch between modes as the tech's heal beam does on middle click? probably not because zoom is important)
• Regarding turret mode; as zilph said, a lockdown would be against the design of this game, but the speed reduction of having a turret mode and not being able to dash would probably be good enough
• Turret mode shouldn't have much defense, no more than 20%, probably 15% or 10% though. (normal back-end damage)
• I don't think the laser sight is a good idea. Our UI's are pretty cluttered as it is, and another giant line across my screen would not be appreciated.

I think that's all, however I am not sure what to do about primaries. nothing seems quite right.

[Estif]

 Hello Buddy, I�m doing some hawken inspired fan art, and I really like this idea,  If you allow me to, I�d like to draw this Class-C sniper idea in my next streaming (tomorrow or thuesday). My art tread is this one :D

 

https://community.pl...-art-streaming/

 

 tell me what you think about it :)

[Benrefle]

On the C class sniper mech idea, I got a idea that is a bit different from you

 

 

Marksman

 

 

Category: Second Line Support

Chassis: HA-4 Minuteman

Class: C

Description:Precision vehicle, desgined for long range precision support.

Background: The Marksman, built on the HA-4 Minuteman chassis, is Crion's response on the call for long range strike capacity in the Security Force. Accurate and deadly, the Marksman is capable to lay down volley of dead accurate fire on the enemy.

Mech Stat:

HP:625

Fuel tank:130L

Boost speed:23.0m/s

Fuel regen: 17L/s

Ground speed:14.5m/s

Air Speed:21m/s

Overheating recovery: 5.5s

Dodging: 1.5s 

Primary Weapon:Piercer

Alt Primary: SA Hawkin

Prestige Primary: Slug Rifle

Secondary Weapon:

SABOT-HG

A Crion Version of Sabot Rifle which fire a heavier round that guide itself to the target.

Damage per shot(Unscoped/scoped):140/175

DPS:28/35

Fire rate:0.2

Accurcy:85

Heat rate:60

Effective Range:100

Ability:

Precision Turret

When activated, Provide 10% Accurcy bonus, Remove 2%  heat per second, and reduce 20% damage taken from the front. The damage taken from back will increase by 10%.

 

Here is the link to my whole list of mech proposal.( If you have the time to read  a ton of word and 10+ proposed mech) 

https://community.pl...-mech-proposal/

[CraftyDus]

Needs more cowbell

[petracles]

I know a lotta people don't agree with the 300 damage shot idea in the OP here, but think of that damn G2 Raider. Fully charged T32-Bolt XT and (shotty-mode) Cosair KLA is just under 300 damage, according to the Salty Stats spreadsheet. That's Bolt-Corsair-Bolt on ANY A Class and ohtheyded...

 

That mech gives me the heeby-jeebies!