63 replies to this topic

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I'm not sure what you are piddling around with right now, but let's get this straight before things go south.

 

There are things the community needs, there are things the community wants, and there are things the community doesn't need.

 

The engine and code base changes you guys have talked about are great, but they are not something the community needs right now. 

 

There are some real problems with the game as it stands, and we need those fixed.

One thing the community needs is balancing. Hopefully we can get together in this thread and point out some of the more agreed upon balance issues. 

The other thing that the community needs is some bug fixing. However, this is gonna take time and a real team to straighten out.

 

So please for now consider doing a bit of balancing; I find it hard to believe that you need a large team to change some numbers, and you already have buffed the turrets and nerfed the scanner.

 

With that out of the way, let's talk about balance!

[JeffMagnum]

scout op pls nerf

[Sp3ctrr]

fugg of meetmissle u ungrateful sod

[CrimsonKaim]

Realistically we can expect some significant changes around late fall/winter 2016.

 

 

 

Like really, Hawken will get the beta tag removed when Star Citizen comes out. Or maybe UE5.

 

Why not writing the game in UE4 again? It would look so much better and a hard reset plus wipe wouldn't be so bad.

Edited by FakeName, 13 August 2015 - 03:29 AM.

[n3onfx]

Realistically we can expect some significant changes around late fall/winter 2016.

 

 

 

Like really, Hawken will get the beta tag removed when Star Citizen comes out. Or maybe UE5.

 

Why not writing the game in UE4 again? It would look so much better and a hard reset plus wipe wouldn't be so bad.

 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay (and you can multiply those "a"s by a couple hundred) too much work and money to be worth it.

 

What happened to that thread where Josh talked about weapon balancing and asked about our opinions? It feels like it was so long ago.

[CrimsonKaim]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay (and you can multiply those "a"s by a couple hundred) too much work and money to be worth it.

 

What happened to that thread where Josh talked about weapon balancing and asked about our opinions? It feels like it was so long ago.

 

And hwere are the actual results of the announcement "more aggressive balance changes"? Still missing, months ago.

[Elite_is_salty]

 

Like really, Hawken will get the beta tag removed when I leave this game and never comeback.

 

FTFY

[Amidatelion]

 

There are some real problems with the game as it stands, and we need those fixed.

One thing the community needs is balancing. Hopefully we can get together in this thread and point out some of the more agreed upon balance issues. 

 

 

There are literally dozens of these threads already and they don't start with the presumptive "Listen up, Reloaded."

[KOS_Baconman]

I'm not sure what you are piddling around with right now, but let's get this straight before things go south.

 

There are things the community needs, there are things the community wants, and there are things the community doesn't need.

 

The  code base changes you guys have talked about are great, but they are not something the community needs right now. 

You do realize that some of the changes they made and things taking up their time was specifically so they knew how to change the code, right?

[CrimsonKaim]

FTFY

 

Basically the same meaning: never.

[StubbornPuppet]

Yeah, because chastising people like you are a big grown-up talking to a small child is the best way to get people to listen to you.

 

And how funny it is that a topic is made saying, "You silly kids need to deal with balancing."  the day after they put a survey about balancing right on the main screen of the game.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

You do realize that some of the changes they made and things taking up their time was specifically so they knew how to change the code, right?

That's definitely not something I thought about, and it is very valid.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Yeah, because chastising people like you are a big grown-up talking to a small child is the best way to get people to listen to you.

 

And how funny it is that a topic is made saying, "You silly kids need to deal with balancing."  the day after they put a survey about balancing right on the main screen of the game.

Oh really? I haven't been able to actually play so I had no idea this was a thing; could you fill me in?

[StubbornPuppet]

Yeah, because chastising people like you are a big grown-up talking to a small child is the best way to get people to listen to you.

 

And how funny it is that a topic is made saying, "You silly kids need to deal with balancing."  the day after they put a survey about balancing right on the main screen of the game.

 

Oh really? I haven't been able to actually play so I had no idea this was a thing; could you fill me in?

 

So, if you haven't been able to play,...?

 

Anyhow, Josh and Tiggs have been placing links to surveys on the main screen of the game for several weeks now asking very specific questions about many aspects of matchmaking, weapon balance... and this week it is about team balancing.  They ask several carefully worded multiple choice questions, then give the player an opportunity to type up their related thoughts and it gets sent over to them directly.

 

I sometimes feel like the questions are attempting to lead me into a corner where they expect a lot of players to end up contradicting themselves... I haven't yet myself, but I can tell it is part of the way the survey is engineered. And I actually support that kind of psychology - so many people on the forums seem to say they want changes that are in direct conflict with other changes they also say they want.

 

I also like that the questions are written such that they can tell a lot about the players actual skill level and their comfort with playing against players of a significantly different skill level.

 

It's been a good thing.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

So, if you haven't been able to play,...?

 

Anyhow, Josh and Tiggs have been placing links to surveys on the main screen of the game for several weeks now asking very specific questions about many aspects of matchmaking, weapon balance... and this week it is about team balancing.  They ask several carefully worded multiple choice questions, then give the player an opportunity to type up their related thoughts and it gets sent over to them directly.

 

I sometimes feel like the questions are attempting to lead me into a corner where they expect a lot of players to end up contradicting themselves... I haven't yet myself, but I can tell it is part of the way the survey is engineered. And I actually support that kind of psychology - so many people on the forums seem to say they want changes that are in direct conflict with other changes they also say they want.

 

I also like that the questions are written such that they can tell a lot about the players actual skill level and their comfort with playing against players of a significantly different skill level.

 

It's been a good thing.

Oh huh. I've seen a few of those but I never really payed attention to them. It's good that they are finally getting into some really significant stuff.

Thanks for filling me in, though! It's been hell trying to play.

[OdinTheWise]

balance is really good right now, minus a few things. if people havent noticed but hawken is still in its death spiral. this reloaded thing is just a panacea because we have yet to see any meaningful results.  

[Hyginos]

Does anyone honestly believe Reloaded will do any more than the bare minimum required to keep this game gliding on aux power?

 

Given the circumstances I believe that is the most logical course of action.

[_incitatus]

I couldn't care less about balance at the moment.  I just want maps, mechs, and cosmetics. 

[Pleasure_Mortar]

Does anyone honestly believe Reloaded will do any more than the bare minimum required to keep this game gliding on aux power?

 

Given the circumstances I believe that is the most logical course of action.

I'm sad to say so but I agree.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I couldn't care less about balance at the moment.  I just want maps, mechs, and cosmetics. 

But that's something the community wants. Sure its a priority, but a couple balance changes would really improve gameplay.

Additionally, maps, mechs and cosmetics take time and a dedicated team, whereas simple balance changes don't.

[hellc9943]

Does anyone honestly believe Reloaded will do any more than the bare minimum required to keep this game gliding on aux power?

 

Given the circumstances I believe that is the most logical course of action.

Pretty much this.

[_incitatus]

But that's something the community wants. Sure its a priority, but a couple balance changes would really improve gameplay.

Additionally, maps, mechs and cosmetics take time and a dedicated team, whereas simple balance changes don't.

 

I feel like the game is actually in a good place as far as balance goes.  Probably the most balanced it has ever been.  I just do not see what is so unbalanced at the moment.  I'm not saying that nothing needs to be adjusted balance wise.  Sure, some mechs need to be tweaked here and there but overall I think balance is in a good place right now. 

 

There are existing unreleased cosmetics which could very easily be released. 

 

And, I think these things go beyond a simple "want".  The game NEEDS new content.  Period.  I think it is the single biggest reason for the declining population.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I feel like the game is actually in a good place as far as balance goes.  Probably the most balanced it has ever been.  I just do not see what is so unbalanced at the moment.  I'm not saying that nothing needs to be adjusted balance wise.  Sure, some mechs need to be tweaked here and there but overall I think balance is in a good place right now. 

 

There are existing unreleased cosmetics which could very easily be released. 

 

And, I think these things go beyond a simple "want".  The game NEEDS new content.  Period.  I think it is the single biggest reason for the declining population.

This is a good point, but the game's problem isn't lack of content.

[Hyginos]

This is a good point, but the game's problem isn't lack of content.

 

Content releases will bring more new players than balance patches.

[StubbornPuppet]

I think the single biggest reason for Hawken's declining population is that it's been online for 3 years.  It doesn't matter how good a game is, people get bored and move on to other things.  You can certainly keep people around longer if you are consistently pushing new content and huge updates/sequels... but all the games peeter out sooner or later.

[Hyginos]

I think the single biggest reason for Hawken's declining population is that it's been online for 3 years.  It doesn't matter how good a game is, people get bored and move on to other things.  You can certainly keep people around longer if you are consistently pushing new content and huge updates/sequels... but all the games peeter out sooner or later.

 

Warframe continues to do well despite being up for almost as long. I wonder if releasing content every few weeks had anything to do with that.

[crockrocket]

inci is on the money here, what we need is content. New content will increase the playerbase, both by bringing back old players and making the game more appealing to new players, which will in turn alleviate some of the issues related to low population.

[StubbornPuppet]

Warframe continues to do well despite being up for almost as long. I wonder if releasing content every few weeks had anything to do with that.

Oh sure, I'm not saying that some games don't outlast others, they do.  And new content also really helps (and I love new).  I was just stating that I think time is Hawkens actual biggest enemy, population wise.

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 13 August 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[Nept]

This is a good point, but the game's problem isn't lack of content.

 

I think it is, actually.  As Hyginos mentioned, new content will attract more players than will balance passes.  On top of that, the game's balance isn't that bad.

[StubbornPuppet]

I think many people are mixing up and mingling the terms "balance", "matchmaking" and "team balancing".

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I think many people are mixing up and mingling the terms "balance", "matchmaking" and "team balancing".

^ this

 

When I say balance i mean mechs, items and internals. These are easy things to change and definitely fall into the category of things we need.

[_incitatus]

^ this

 

When I say balance i mean mechs, items and internals. These are easy things to change and definitely fall into the category of things we need.

 

What do you feel is in need of balancing at the moment?

[Elite_is_salty]

What do you feel is in need of balancing at the moment?

 

Sustain weapons, incin, zerker's air speed.

[Hyginos]

Sustain weapons, incin, zerker's air speed.

 

I love how scanner just goes without saying.

[Elite_is_salty]

I love how scanner just goes without saying.

 

I wouldn't mind playing against 2 scanner users but I hate going against a team containing 2 assaults or zerkers.

[_incitatus]

I don't really mind zerker's air speed, but I would love to see a slight sustain nerf...

[SatelliteJack]

OhBoyHereWeGo.jpg

[Draigun]

1. Remove the Technician from the game.
2. Remove the Incinerator from the game.
3. Remove Portable Scanner from the game.

Would be the best balance pass ever.

[1uster]

 

Anyhow, Josh and Tiggs have been placing links to surveys on the main screen of the game for several weeks now asking very specific questions about many aspects of matchmaking, weapon balance... and this week it is about team balancing.  They ask several carefully worded multiple choice questions, then give the player an opportunity to type up their related thoughts and it gets sent over to them directly.

 

Wow. Thx for the info! Honestly I felt dumb for a moment. The main screen - I just ignore that completely. If there were any news in there it was either promotional for any bundle or patch notes which I already read on forums...

[AxionOperandi]

Does anyone honestly believe Reloaded will do any more than the bare minimum required to keep this game gliding on aux power?
 
Given the circumstances I believe that is the most logical course of action.

No, that fails deductive reasoning.

You don't need a tech lead from a grade AAA title, engine programmers, and game play programmers to keep a game on auto pilot. They are building a fairly significant team and I would expect proportional results (in due time).