44 replies to this topic

[GreyFa1con]

All but maybe 3 rounds last night were heavily stacked. And one even auto-switched me, the highest scorer on the underdog team to the winning team side when some people joined....

All evening I was grumbling to myself "Reloaded, get your fuzzy bunny together".

Feels like the auto-balance doesn't take KDR or MMR or something into effect. Mostly feels random.

Especially team assignments mid-match. Say things are relatively balanced with a winning and underdog team. Then a medium-high mmr player joins, and it just assigns them to the winning side. Making it go from hard fought toss-up to landslide.

Among many things. This is one of the biggest things scaring away new players.

And landslides aren't much fun for either side.

[CrimsonKaim]

It does. But smurfs you know?

 

We don't give a damn about balance if someone or something is restrictung us from joining any match.

 

Luckily, we find matches quite easy now due to reduced MMR expanding waiting times.

 

 

 

Be thankful. Learn.

[GreyFa1con]

I do fine myself. But TDM is a team game.

Heck wouldn't it be awesome though if you get a decent mmr player joining, and say you got 4 on the losing side, and 3 on the winning side. If they swapped the lowest score player (feeder) to the winning side. And then assigned the high'ish mmr player to the underdogs.

Edited by GreyFa1con, 01 October 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[eth0]

Anytime a match has players that joined/left during the match you can expect balance to fall apart.

During-match balance is subject to players attempting to join (who aren't balanced and just join the next team) and players volunteering to switch (which are preferred to forcing a switch).

 

If the server is filling up, just hold out for the next map and let matchmaker do the rest. If people continue to join/leave then the server becomes a revolving door and balance only becomes more difficult to come by.

 

May your fuel be full and your heatsinks empty!

[StubbornPuppet]

If a match starts with a full compliment of players, the balancer works very well.

If people don't wait for a match to mostly fill up before "Readying up", don't expect a balanced match.

 

When a match is not full, as players join, the game automatically puts the first player who joins on the team with the fewest players.  If both teams have the same number of players, it puts the incoming player on the losing team.  And that is a simple and reasonable way to handle it.

 

Your alternatives are:

Having players who join a match sit in limbo for as long as it takes for 2 other players to also join so that there are at least 3 players from which to make a balancing decision.  Nope, nobody is gonna want to sit around for that nonsense.

 

or

 

Constantly reshuffling teams in mid-match so that the teams are always well balanced.  Nope.  People already get upset when they are force switched because of a bunch of rage quitting and nobody wanting to volunteer.  If the game forced people to switch teams, then switch teams again, then switch again... nobody would want to play at all - as there is no satisfaction in winning a match when you played for both teams multiple times.  Boo.

 

Seriously, the team balancing awkwardness is all about Hawken not having a large enough player base.  The only viable stop-gap measure for now would be to reduce the number of overall available servers, so as to consolidate the players into more matches together.  As it is, with soooo many open servers to choose from, you'll find dozens of servers with only 2-5 players in them - where, if they took away half of the available servers, people would be forced to play together... so the team balancer could actually do it's job.

 

And, "yes", as much as it pains me to say it, this means they need to keep the lowered time before MMR restrictions are ignored - for now.

[Hyginos]

Anytime a match has players that joined/left during the match you can expect balance to fall apart.

During-match balance is subject to players attempting to join (who aren't balanced and just join the next team) and players volunteering to switch (which are preferred to forcing a switch).

 

If the server is filling up, just hold out for the next map and let matchmaker do the rest. If people continue to join/leave then the server becomes a revolving door and balance only becomes more difficult to come by.

 

May your fuel be full and your heatsinks empty!

 

This is really the biggest impediment to balanced matches, far more than smurfs, MMR lockouts, or anything else. The algorithm I think they use for team balancing will find the optimal solution to a balanced match almost instantly, but as soon as someone quits or joins everything falls apart, smurfs or no.

 

Also we need a  "May your weapons be cool and your tanks full" shirt in the contest stat.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

[Amidatelion]

Also we need a  "May your weapons be cool and your tanks full" shirt in the contest stat.

 

You heard the man, Badtings.

[SatelliteJack]

The only viable stop-gap measure for now would be to reduce the number of overall available servers, so as to consolidate the players into more matches together.

What's the reasoning for not doing this? It seems like an okay idea. Is it a ping issue?

[JackVandal]

What's the reasoning for not doing this? It seems like an okay idea. Is it a ping issue?

mmr spread,it would likely force better and worse players together more often due to the player base.

[angryhampster]

you cannot balance a game to full equilibrium when there are tactical healers, and great players.    there are few players who can tactically kill 5 random casuals and not die even once...

 

gather your team for teamwork, and do what you can to win.  this is as real as real life, where you earn ur victory.   I'm not the best, but why am I always wining 60-80% of the time?

 

You gotta play smart and efficient.   your actions EVERY second has an effect on the outcome of the game. 

 

Or if you want balance like CALL OF DUTY, have each mech die 2 seconds after taking fire.    at least with that, the numbers will be similar and everyone will think the game is balanced.

 

I hope you understand.....please understand.....

 

you will understand.....

[angryhampster]

i don't know if it's an evolution change or something, but people seem to take losses so seriously.   gaming has changed from what it was back then.  back then,  when losing, it was a challenge only to get better and beat them.

 

now, when you lose, people are inclined to just quit iand say that the game is not balanced.   just go already...

[LiveBacteria]

i don't know if it's an evolution change or something, but people seem to take losses so seriously.   gaming has changed from what it was back then.  back then,  when losing, it was a challenge only to get better and beat them.
 
now, when you lose, people are inclined to just quit iand say that the game is not balanced.   just go already...

That's not as true as I think you believe.. At least in my time playing online games. O.O Hawken isn't too bad where you get people raging and quiting. Grey doesn't do this anyways

[DieselCat]

It does. But smurfs you know?

 

We don't give a damn about balance if someone or something is restrictung us from joining any match.

 

Luckily, we find matches quite easy now due to reduced MMR expanding waiting times.

 

 

 

Be thankful. Learn.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you an idiot, or do you just stumble like this through life ?

Edited by DieselCat, 01 October 2015 - 09:13 PM.

[CrimsonKaim]

Are you an idiot, or do you just stumble like this through life ?

Idiot is a term from the ancient greece. It defines someone within a society that does not participate in the political happening.
With this definition, Epikur was an idiot.

What-so-ever. I was always happy when skilled players joined the room. Didn't matter on which side, just teach me senpai. QQ

No pain no gain. I am sick of these countless crybabies in the net who are just complaining about convinience regarding matchmaker stuff, behavior or frustrating things like "I doesn't stand a chance!".

Deal with it god damn. Survival of the fittest, laws of the jungle, call it how you want.

If one isn't strong, survival will be hard. That's it. No discussion needed.

In Hawken's case: what is josh supposed to do? Create 100 accounts he can play at once to balance matches?
There is no way to balance matches properly with such a low player base.
Plus this game is still in beta, it is obviously not ready yet.

What do you wanna hear from me? Something like "Awww, little po-po got kicked in the bud?"
My gosh, stand up, keep fighting. Noone gives a damn.

Edited by FakeName, 01 October 2015 - 10:30 PM.

[Aregon]

Idiot is a term from the ancient greece. It defines someone within a society that does not participate in the political happening.
With this definition, Epikur was an idiot.

What-so-ever. I was always happy when skilled players joined the room. Didn't matter on which side, just teach me senpai. QQ

No pain no gain. I am sick of these countless crybabies in the net who are just complaining about convinience regarding matchmaker stuff, behavior or frustrating things like "I doesn't stand a chance!".

Deal with it god damn. Survival of the fittest, laws of the jungle, call it how you want.

If one isn't strong, survival will be hard. That's it. No discussion needed.

In Hawken's case: what is josh supposed to do? Create 100 accounts he can play at once to balance matches?
There is no way to balance matches properly with such a low player base.
Plus this game is still in beta, it is obviously not ready yet.

What do you wanna hear from me? Something like "Awww, little po-po got kicked in the bud?"
My gosh, stand up, keep fighting. Noone gives a damn.

Didn`t care to read your whole post because not enough eye bleach, however some things:

 

Idiot in today`s terms is a lesser intelligent person who tries to showcase their intelligence, but fails amazingly.

 

And once again, as I and others have said: you do not learn to play by getting smashed. It is like learning a baby to walk by ice-hockey. And to say we follow the rules of the jungle is proper bollocks because humans don`t participate in natural selection to the same degree as animals. To compare civilised communities to those of tribal origins who actually is born into the nature is also proper bollocks.

[CrimsonKaim]

Didn`t care to read your whole post because not enough eye bleach, however some things:

Idiot in today`s terms is a lesser intelligent person who tries to showcase their intelligence, but fails amazingly.

And once again, as I and others have said: you do not learn to play by getting smashed. It is like learning a baby to walk by ice-hockey. And to say we follow the rules of the jungle is proper bollocks because humans don`t participate in natural selection to the same degree as animals. To compare civilised communities to those of tribal origins who actually is born into the nature is also proper bollocks.

Oooh you are so wrong about the natural selection. Humans are nothing better than animals. In fact, from all living organisms on this planet, the human is the weakest.

[Aregon]

Oooh you are so wrong about the natural selection. Humans are nothing better than animals. In fact, from all living organisms on this planet, the human is the weakest.

Humans are "better" than animals. We are built as all-eaters, we can survive on almost anything, we hunt our prey by tiring them out. We got equipment that helps all our needs. We have preparations for all situations. We can rebuild civilisations in mere years. We are so powerful we are killing the planet with it. In physical form we aren`t by far the strongest, but we do not need that. We got the brawn to create equipment to help us where we lack the abilities. We have travelled to space.

 

The reason the human kind is the leading race on the planet is because we are the best evolved race. Your argument is invalid.

Edited by Sir Aregon, 02 October 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

Humans are "better" than animals. We are built as all-eaters, we can survive on almost anything, we hunt our prey by tiring them out. We got equipment that helps all our needs. We have preparations for all situations. We can rebuild civilisations in mere years. We are so powerful we are killing the planet with it. In physical form we aren`t by far the strongest, but we do not need that. We got the brawn to create equipment to help us where we lack the abilities. We have travelled to space.

 

The reason the human kind is the leading race on the planet is because we are the best evolved race. Your argument is invalid.

 

Ha, who told you that? Your teacher? 

 

The only thing you are right about is that we are responsible for killing the planet. 

 

We are dependent from other humans. We wouldn't survive in the wild. Where would you produce your guns? Where would you find shelter? What would you do if a wild animal is hunting you? 

Humans are prey. 

Natural selection will kill the weak and favor the strong. So why are humans are still living? Because we exist in masses. And you know what? We die in masses. 

Intelligence is a need of a human to survive at all.

 

 

Human's immune system is one of the weakest, 'civilized' humans are one of the weakest of all humans. Dependent from other humans to provide them food, shelter, warmth.

 

If humans would just be a race with equal numbers to another race, let's say foxes, we wouldn't have something like global civilisation. 

 

Now an example: What do humans do when they are attacked? Run. If you would say you would fight, then you would have a gun. Where does this gun come from? Does it grow on trees? No. Around 100 other humans took part in producing this gun plus ammo. That is 101 vs 1. Sure humans win. 

 

You wouldn't survive at all if there are no other humans helping you. 

 

Now a challenge. Kill all ants on this planet. I guarantee you that humans will fail. We are, by far, not the strongest race on this world. Nor are we dominant. We think we are. But do we have control over anything on this planet? No. We can't even get control over climate change for what we are responsible for. Poles melt, countries flooded, crops dried out, creatures died because of that. 

 

 

Humans are dependent on so many other things, with other humans just being one of many factors. That's why humans are weak. 

 

Oh addtionally. You think you are better than animals? Survive with only natural resources. You simply have not the ability to survive in nature. Simple example. What would humans do without electricity? There goes your civilisation, hello anarchy!

 

 

I say humans are different than animals, but not better.

Edited by FakeName, 02 October 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[Hyginos]

-im 14 and this is deep-

 

I'm not going to take the time to pick apart your nonsense. Strength in this case is a subjective value judgment, but a species doesn't infest a planet to the point that the global climate changes as a result by being "weak" by any definition.

 

(I never thought I'd see the day when Aregon said something that I would consider worth a like.)

 

BACK ON TOPIC:

You can totally get better by getting smashed, but only if you have the right mindset for it. I would conjecture that the vast majority of players do not have the mindset or intention to improve by such trials, and for them getting smashed will persuade them to either leave the server or play the game less.

 

Without a larger population there isn't a whole lot you can do besides incent people to play whole matches and let the system work as intended.

[CrimsonKaim]

I'm not going to take the time to pick apart your nonsense. Strength in this case is a subjective value judgment, but a species doesn't infest a planet to the point that the global climate changes as a result by being "weak" by any definition.

 

How boring and lame to manipulate quotes again, you don't have the right to exist anymore, lol. Come up with something interesting next time.

 

BACK ON TOPIC:

You can totally get better by getting smashed, but only if you have the right mindset for it. I would conjecture that the vast majority of players do not have the mindset or intention to improve by such trials, and for them getting smashed will persuade them to either leave the server or play the game less.

 

Without a larger population there isn't a whole lot you can do besides incent people to play whole matches and let the system work as intended.

 

So what? People who get frustrated easily leave the game. What's the deal? Less crybabies or bad players in my team! ;D Once again, survival of the fittest or natural selection. If weak players leave, we only have strong players. Doesn't sound this good?

Edited by FakeName, 02 October 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[GreyFa1con]

Not sure what evolution has to do with assigning high-ish mmr new-joins to the losing team.

Heck, the easiest thing is to just assign the higher mmr guy over to the losing side, then send everybody a press F8 message. (Even better, start messaging the F8 to only the feeders first. Then everybody else after like 15 seconds.)

[Silverfire]

Okay FakeName, let's put you in a server with Hawken's top 10 players. You're all in a match, but then everyone else leaves. Does that mean you're the better player, the best in the server, because you "survived" until that point, you didn't leave? If you're judging strength on mere staying power and longevity, lol.




Why did I get involved

Edited by Silverfire, 02 October 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Aregon]

(I never thought I'd see the day when Aregon said something that I would consider worth a like.)

I am both really hurt and really proud of that.

[Panzermanathod]

Even without bringing in religious beliefs I can bring up issues with FN's "survival of the fittest" remarks. So in the end I also had to ask...

 

 

Not sure what evolution has to do with assigning high-ish mmr new-joins to the losing team.
 

[Aregon]

I blame Tickle for this.

[Panzermanathod]

 

 

You can totally get better by getting smashed, but only if you have the right mindset for it. I would conjecture that the vast majority of players do not have the mindset or intention to improve by such trials, and for them getting smashed will persuade them to either leave the server or play the game less.

 

Without a larger population there isn't a whole lot you can do besides incent people to play whole matches and let the system work as intended.

 

So what? People who get frustrated easily leave the game. What's the deal? Less crybabies or bad players in my team! ;D Once again, survival of the fittest or natural selection. If weak players leave, we only have strong players. Doesn't sound this good?

 

 

 

Define strong player. Even at my best I was decent at Hawken. But I stayed on (well, kinda. On needed hiatus at the moment). I'm not an FPS player, and I don't expect to get beyond what would be considered mid-tier.

 

But I'm not leaving the game altogether.

 

What about the users who make smurf accounts? What if some 2300 mmr guy doesn't like to stomp on new people but can't get many games. What if the guy decides that he can't really play because he rarely plays anyone on his level and quits. Is he a weak player?

 

Hawken isn't Darwinism, it's skill based entertainment. The question isn't "Don't you want only good players to play", it should be "Don't most players want to get good?" And, chances are, many in the latter situation won't get good, at least not for high mmr.

 

And besides, natural selection doesn't work for a video game if there's no way for the thing to prosper as the weak die out. Darwinism  at least states that the strong survive on and reproduce. In Hawken, all that will do is shrink an already low playerbase.

[HHJFTRU]

 

So what? People who get frustrated easily leave the game. What's the deal? Less crybabies or bad players in my team! ;D Once again, survival of the fittest or natural selection. If weak players leave, we only have strong players. Doesn't sound this good?

 

[Silverfire]

Natural selection implies we reproduce stronger offspring. Last time I checked I didn't have sex with anyone here.

[hellc9943]

Natural selection implies we reproduce stronger offspring. Last time I checked I didn't have sex with anyone here.

Because you were sleeping, honey.

[Amidatelion]

Natural selection implies we reproduce stronger offspring. Last time I checked I didn't have sex with anyone here.

 

You needed to check?

[Panzermanathod]

Natural selection implies we reproduce stronger offspring. Last time I checked I didn't have sex with anyone here.

 

I'm too lazy to bring up a screen shot from Terranigma where Cadet Casts A Sexy Look.

[TheButtSatisfier]

FakeName leaned back in the creaking chair and smiled. "You know, I admire your persistence. However, your argument is invalid." He settled his cup of what smelled like degreaser atop the table made of a manhole cover between himself and Sir Aregon. "We are a weak species. One of the weakest on Earth."

 

Sir Aregon kept his face still planted in his hands. He sighed. "We're not on Earth, though."

 

"Irrelevant."

 

"You are disregarding some key factors. For example," Sir Aregon said as he pulled his elbows off the table and mirrored FakeName's lean, "did you know that humans have the largest penises of all the apes?"

 

FakeName looked up and met Sir Aregon's eyes. He stayed quiet. Blood began to flush his cheeks.

 

"That's right," Sir Aregon murmured. "The. Biggest." He accentuated each word with a fingertap on the tabletop. The lights in the bar began to flicker and dim, casting shadows between the two pilots. "Why do you think they got that way?" The flickering lights went dark to a chorus of complaints from the other pilots crowding the bar.

 

FakeName snorted, undeterred by the lack of light. "You can't verify that." He leaned the chair back to the uneven floor. "That still has little bearing on my point." He felt something take his left hand in a firm grip and pulled it away from the table to rest on something warm.

 

The lights came back online. The volume in the bar returned to its normal hum. FakeName jumped to find Sir Aregon seated next to him, smiling. He firmly held FakeName's hand to his inner thigh. "I most certainly can verify that. The question is," he whispered as he pulled the hand closer to himself, "do you want it verified?" His smoldering eyes were leveled at FakeName's. FakeName found himself unable to look away.

 

"S-s-s-sir..." FakeName stuttered.

 

"Shhhh." Sir Aregon placed a single gloved finger on FakeName's lips. "I have much to teach you."

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 27 May 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[Sylhiri]

We really need some kind of content patch. I don't remember threads a year and a half ago turning into erotic fan fiction, at least not this quickly.

Edited by Sylhiri, 02 October 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Aregon]

FakeName leaned back in the creaking chair and smiled. �You know, I admire your persistence. However, your argument is invalid.� He settled his cup of what smelled like degreaser atop the table made of a manhole cover between himself and Sir Aregon. �We are a weak species. One of the weakest on Earth.�

 

Sir Aregon kept his face still planted in his hands. He sighed. �We�re not on Earth, though.�

 

�Irrelevant.�

 

�You are disregarding some key factors. For example,� Sir Aregon said as he pulled his elbows off the table and mirrored FakeName�s lean, �did you know that humans have the largest penises of all the apes?�

 

FakeName looked up and met Sir Aregon�s eyes. He stayed quiet. Blood began to flush his cheeks.

 

�That�s right,� Sir Aregon murmured. �The. Biggest.� He accentuated each word with a fingertap on the tabletop. The lights in the bar began to flicker and dim, casting shadows between the two pilots. �Why do you think they got that way?� The flickering lights went dark to a chorus of complaints from the other pilots crowding the bar.

 

FakeName snorted, undeterred by the lack of light. �You can�t verify that.� He leaned the chair back to the uneven floor. �That still has little bearing on my point�. He felt something take his left hand in a firm grip and pulled it away from the table to rest on something warm.

 

The lights came back online. The volume in the bar returned to its normal hum. FakeName jumped to find Sir Aregon seated next to him, smiling. He firmly held FakeName�s hand to his inner thigh. �I most certainly can verify that. The question is,� he whispered as he pulled the hand closer to himself, �do you want it verified?� His smoldering eyes were leveled at FakeName�s. FakeName found himself unable to look away.

 

�S-s-s-sir�� FakeName stuttered.

 

�Shhhh.� Sir Aregon placed a single gloved finger on FakeName�s lips. �I have much to teach you.�

I`ll admit I liked this more than I should.

[Xacius]

FakeName leaned back in the creaking chair and smiled. �You know, I admire your persistence. However, your argument is invalid.� He settled his cup of what smelled like degreaser atop the table made of a manhole cover between himself and Sir Aregon. �We are a weak species. One of the weakest on Earth.�

 

Sir Aregon kept his face still planted in his hands. He sighed. �We�re not on Earth, though.�

 

�Irrelevant.�

 

�You are disregarding some key factors. For example,� Sir Aregon said as he pulled his elbows off the table and mirrored FakeName�s lean, �did you know that humans have the largest penises of all the apes?�

 

FakeName looked up and met Sir Aregon�s eyes. He stayed quiet. Blood began to flush his cheeks.

 

�That�s right,� Sir Aregon murmured. �The. Biggest.� He accentuated each word with a fingertap on the tabletop. The lights in the bar began to flicker and dim, casting shadows between the two pilots. �Why do you think they got that way?� The flickering lights went dark to a chorus of complaints from the other pilots crowding the bar.

 

FakeName snorted, undeterred by the lack of light. �You can�t verify that.� He leaned the chair back to the uneven floor. �That still has little bearing on my point�. He felt something take his left hand in a firm grip and pulled it away from the table to rest on something warm.

 

The lights came back online. The volume in the bar returned to its normal hum. FakeName jumped to find Sir Aregon seated next to him, smiling. He firmly held FakeName�s hand to his inner thigh. �I most certainly can verify that. The question is,� he whispered as he pulled the hand closer to himself, �do you want it verified?� His smoldering eyes were leveled at FakeName�s. FakeName found himself unable to look away.

 

�S-s-s-sir�� FakeName stuttered.

 

�Shhhh.� Sir Aregon placed a single gloved finger on FakeName�s lips. �I have much to teach you.�

 

lmfao

[Miscellaneous]

FakeName leaned back in the creaking chair and smiled. �You know, I admire your persistence. However, your argument is invalid.� He settled his cup of what smelled like degreaser atop the table made of a manhole cover between himself and Sir Aregon. �We are a weak species. One of the weakest on Earth.�

 

Sir Aregon kept his face still planted in his hands. He sighed. �We�re not on Earth, though.�

 

�Irrelevant.�

 

�You are disregarding some key factors. For example,� Sir Aregon said as he pulled his elbows off the table and mirrored FakeName�s lean, �did you know that humans have the largest penises of all the apes?�

 

FakeName looked up and met Sir Aregon�s eyes. He stayed quiet. Blood began to flush his cheeks.

 

�That�s right,� Sir Aregon murmured. �The. Biggest.� He accentuated each word with a fingertap on the tabletop. The lights in the bar began to flicker and dim, casting shadows between the two pilots. �Why do you think they got that way?� The flickering lights went dark to a chorus of complaints from the other pilots crowding the bar.

 

FakeName snorted, undeterred by the lack of light. �You can�t verify that.� He leaned the chair back to the uneven floor. �That still has little bearing on my point�. He felt something take his left hand in a firm grip and pulled it away from the table to rest on something warm.

 

The lights came back online. The volume in the bar returned to its normal hum. FakeName jumped to find Sir Aregon seated next to him, smiling. He firmly held FakeName�s hand to his inner thigh. �I most certainly can verify that. The question is,� he whispered as he pulled the hand closer to himself, �do you want it verified?� His smoldering eyes were leveled at FakeName�s. FakeName found himself unable to look away.

 

�S-s-s-sir�� FakeName stuttered.

 

�Shhhh.� Sir Aregon placed a single gloved finger on FakeName�s lips. �I have much to teach you.�

 

10/10

[Nept]

 

And once again, as I and others have said: you do not learn to play by getting smashed. It is like learning a baby to walk by ice-hockey.

 

Real Canadians learn to skate before they learn to walk.

[Amidatelion]

Real Canadians learn to skate before they learn to walk.

 

Truth.

 

I have been ridiculed by my inability to properly skate.

 

You need to be able to define icing to pass the citizenship exam.

[TronX33]

 

 

 

So what? People who get frustrated easily leave the game. What's the deal? Less crybabies or bad players in my team! ;D Once again, survival of the fittest or natural selection. If weak players leave, we only have strong players. Doesn't sound this good?

Less people to play on your team :)

Less people overall :)

Harder time for you to get into a match :)

Newbies whine about getting rekt by smurfs, you high-MMR players complain about having a hard time finding matches. :)

Also, maybe some people (like me) play a various assortment of games at once. Or maybe, they don't want to invest a lot of time into video games. It depends. If Hawken was catered only to the very-experienced players, then I doubt it will have a chance of surviving. You have to factor in the casual players.