112 replies to this topic

[teeth_03]

So no one knows how development is going, got it.

[DallasCreeper]

It's silence, but not silent enough to be a Great silence.

Edited by DallasCreeper, 03 February 2016 - 04:55 AM.

[Aregon]

But... Wasn't that obvious?

A positive attitude has never hurt anyone you bloody stalker.

[claisolais]

It's silence, but not silent enough to be a Great silence.

Silence after promising hope, I would say it amplifies the silence part. 

[dorobo]

[Chickin]

http://i.imgur.com/TnMdYhE.webm

[DallasCreeper]

Silence after promising hope, I would say it amplifies the silence part. 

Silent silence is silent. Notice us Mother Tiggs, give us a sign.

[TURDxSANDWICH]

 They have increased the price of mechs and gear. Changed when you get some of the popular equipment till way later in XP unless you want to spend real cash. 

 

Do you have evidence of the changes reloaded made here?  I thought they messed with some of the prices to see if there was any effect on new players, decided there wasn't, and just put everything back to where it was when they took over.  Could be wrong on that.  But, its kind of important for my next point.

 

I truly and honestly believe this isn't the great silence 2.0 like some seem to believe that these devs are just going silent and will leave us.  They are developing something.  You don't make the investment they did, only to milk the few hundred of us still playing.  If that was their motive, they would need much bigger cash grabs like releasing abandoned mechs from the previous devs for MC only and lots of stuff like that.  And we have seen none of that.  Selling a few extra skins aren't going to pay the bills.  They're going to have to release some massive new content at some point to attempt to recoup their investment.

 

My biggest problem, though, is how can we have any faith that what they are developing is going to be any good?  All we know about reloaded is that they are terrible in regards to community management and involvement.  How else can you explain saying 2016 is going to be a huge year for Hawken, and then a month into 2016, literally have absolutely no communication with the community about anything regarding development.  And I suppose we don't even need development details, but just simply be a presence here for anything other than closing threads and warning/suspending people.  Engage us.  In my experience, if you are completely incompetent in one area of your job (i.e. community engagement), its totally fair to question your competency in any other area of your job (i.e. game development).  Reloaded has totally opened themselves up to all these questions and doubt by neglecting the only area of operating a game that they can actually build some goodwill during this phase of development.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

 

My biggest problem, though, is how can we have any faith that what they are developing is going to be any good?  All we know about reloaded is that they are terrible in regards to community management and involvement.  How else can you explain saying 2016 is going to be a huge year for Hawken, and then a month into 2016, literally have absolutely no communication with the community about anything regarding development.  And I suppose we don't even need development details, but just simply be a presence here for anything other than closing threads and warning/suspending people.  Engage us.  In my experience, if you are completely incompetent in one area of your job (i.e. community engagement), its totally fair to question your competency in any other area of your job (i.e. game development).  Reloaded has totally opened themselves up to all these questions and doubt by neglecting the only area of operating a game that they can actually build some goodwill during this phase of development.

 

That is excatly my issue with the silence.

[Sylhiri]

...They're going to have to release some massive new content at some point to attempt to recoup their investment...

 

...How else can you explain saying 2016 is going to be a huge year for Hawken, and then a month into 2016, literally have absolutely no communication with the community about anything regarding development.

 

Last time a Hawken game developer cut communication for a few months to develop a massive patch, it didn't turn out too well.

Edited by Sylhiri, 03 February 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

"Sorry for the absent communication, guys! After carefully reviewing your comments we've decided it's time to make a few changes that will increase Hawken's appeal as a mech fighter game. First and foremost, we acknowledge that the game is a little too fast right now. We'd like to address that here with our first big patch which contains a LOT of new mech animations and functionality. Thanks for your patience and we can't wait to release the next patch!

 

Changelog:

 

* Turret mode has been added to all mechs. It is now permanently engaged.

 

Enjoy!"

[Hyginos]

Last time a Hawken game developer cut communication for a few months to develop a massive patch, it didn't turn out too well.

 

I think it is likely that by the time ADH went into the mountains to work on technical debt (or at least claimed to) liquidation was already inevitable if not in progress.

 

Retrospectively it looks like we were told sweet nothings to let us down gently and preserve some investment value for the creditors.

 

My hope is that Reloaded is actually working on a large patch right now as opposed to working on finding another job as ADH was.

[KejiGoto]

Here's my problem with the silence going on right now...

 

Reloaded is supposed to be the ones in charge of Hawken now, they don't answer to anyone, this is "their baby" now, so to speak. With Adhesive we had the understanding that they answered to other people and companies who had a direct say in how much communication there was with the community, what is shared, and when. While we were doing The Cockpit (Leon, Saturn, Vana, and myself) numerous times Vana would give us some details about something coming up but then wouldn't get the go ahead to announce it so we'd get stuck sitting on it. A few times this would happen right before the show would start and we'd find ourselves scrambling to fill up time because we were banking on discussing the new mech, patch, or whatever.

 

Now as much as that situation sucked it made sense, there's a publisher involved and they are the ones ultimately calling the shots.

 

That isn't the case here, at least as far as I understand based on the information CapnJosh has put out there through various interviews and so forth (I'll get to this in a moment). As far as we know Reloaded is it, these are the guys who hold all the cards. So why are we hearing literally nothing about what is going on? Last we heard as before Christmas that they had made their last hire to complete the team and after the holidays they'd be introducing everyone. Well the holidays ended a month ago and we still got nothing. Sure some tickets have been responded to and Tiggs updated the Test Drive Mech thread but this is about what we got during the silence with Adhesive. We knew people were there, they just weren't talking to us.

 

Unfortunately for CapnJosh he had already established some pretty open lines of communication with the community. He was on the forums regularly, did plenty of streaming, and never seemed that far off or we had a good idea when he'd be back online. While he didn't always have information he could at least assure us that things were happening and give a few minor teases.

 

Now we've got none of that. We literally went backwards in terms of communication and with each passing day it seems to get less and less. I wouldn't be sitting here wondering where the team was and what is going on if the above trend hadn't been established. We went from having a present development team to wondering what's going on.

 

This wouldn't be as annoying if the interviews CapnJosh did last year were actually available here on the site since they do contain important information and I find it odd that stuff wasn't linked here and pinned by Reloaded so people coming into the game or those returning could easily tell where things are. The Steam discussion board has been a ghost town in terms of developer presence. Last update posted there was in November. It just seems like they've slowly backed away from Hawken and suddenly aren't as vested in this as they once were.

I'm not expecting a full blown update on what is happening but I'm now in the camp of why can't Tiggs, Josh, or anyone like that jump on to post a quick update? Everything from last year says this should be possible, even if it is just "Sorry guys we've been super busy! Not sure when we'll have an update but things are happening which demand our attention. Have patience, we're still here and you are not forgotten."

 

That's all this community has ever wanted from the development team. We were told that Reloaded was the team in charge and we wouldn't see the issues they've had with GamersFirst yet here we are starting to see those same issues. What's worse is CapnJosh has acknowledged those issues and stated numerous times this would not be like that. 

 

Yet here we are...

 

I haven't given up hope yet but I'm also not holding my breath. I want some signs of life from the development team that was adamant this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they've been getting everyone caught up with the development team but I have a hard time believing that during a month plus time we couldn't get a word or a hint that things are still happening beyond the site's web cert being updated, threads getting shut down day after they should have been, support tickets eventually getting a response, and of course cheaters being banned every so often.

 

For a community that has been drug through the mud (in terms of dealing with behind the scenes nonsense and being left in the dark) this doesn't look good and doesn't build confidence. Right now Hawken is kind of depending on this core base to keep it going. I know some out there don't think this is true but when you've got a piss poor reputation like Reloaded already does and you're trying to push something that was already labeled as a dud (Hawken) you're going to need some passionate fans who have been around for awhile to convince others this isn't yet another developer trying to cash in on some half finished game on Steam. Hawken is still Early Access over three years after first being released. That doesn't look good to anyone coming in especially with a shaky history and closed development studio.

I'm all for waiting for the right time to announce things and get Hawken's name out there but don't do so at the cost of those who have been here for a long time, some of us from the very start with the first closed Alpha. Really hope this is just a case of the team is working really hard and not things are stalling behind the scenes as Reloaded learns they can't do squat with Hawken's build because things are so messed up and designed rather poorly. If that is the case then just tell us now so we can know not to bother and treat this the same way APB Reloaded deserves to be treated.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Pool our money, buy the thing, open the source code, fix it right, sell skins, profit.

Edited by ARCH3TYP3, 03 February 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[AxionOperandi]

I think it is likely that by the time ADH went into the mountains to work on technical debt (or at least claimed to) liquidation was already inevitable if not in progress.

 

Retrospectively it looks like we were told sweet nothings to let us down gently and preserve some investment value for the creditors.

 

My hope is that Reloaded is actually working on a large patch right now as opposed to working on finding another job as ADH was.

"Technical debt" was nothing more than a white lie to buy them some time till their financial situation was resolved one way or another, and well know how it was "resolved".  I don't blame them for lying about it, telling the truth which they may not have been able to contractually would have only caused mass panic. 

 

This situation is current situation is quite different.  The silence with the community now more factor of low priority and neglect.  I would say that community communication can't be top priority as there are obviously big core problems that need to be addressed and I'm sure they ware working with just the staff they need but like I said my other post engaging with us is really cheap preventative maintenance for Hawekns already dinged up image and reputation.

That isn't the case here, at least as far as I understand based on the information CapnJosh has put out there through various interviews and so forth (I'll get to this in a moment). As far as we know Reloaded is it, these are the guys who hold all the cards......

 

Unfortunately for CapnJosh he had already established some pretty open lines of communication with the community. He was on the forums regularly, did plenty of streaming, and never seemed that far off or we had a good idea when he'd be back online. While he didn't always have information he could at least assure us that things were happening and give a few minor teases.

 

Now we've got none of that. We literally went backwards in terms of communication and with each passing day it seems to get less and less. I wouldn't be sitting here wondering where the team was and what is going on if the above trend hadn't been established. We went from having a present development team to wondering what's going on.

I'm pretty sure you are right, they have "partners" but Reloaded is it when it comes to owning the IP.  It would seem odd to me that would be under an NDA of any sort.

 

As far as Josh goes when he was really in the forums and updates were weekly they were just getting started ripping through the old systems, planning and hiring.  There probably wasn't too much, busy "grind" work at that point in time so I'm sure there was more time to hang out in the forums.  Now assuming things are progressing from the last update we had they have pretty much a full staff now and were working on new mech designs so yeah I'm sure his plate is full.

 

Having said all of that thats still no excuse for no communication whatsoever for weeks.  If its not going to be Josh (and it really shouldn't be the lead producers job anyway) then they have to assign the roll to someone else who is familiar with the development to chime in every now and then.

[Sylhiri]

I think it is likely that by the time ADH went into the mountains to work on technical debt (or at least claimed to) liquidation was already inevitable if not in progress.

 

Retrospectively it looks like we were told sweet nothings to let us down gently and preserve some investment value for the creditors.

 

My hope is that Reloaded is actually working on a large patch right now as opposed to working on finding another job as ADH was.

 

Looking back now I realize that the push to Steam was a last ditch attempt. I could only imagine how much Hawken cost for Reloaded so I highly doubt they will just let Hawken wither away without at least attempting to get their money back, after that who knows.

[StubbornPuppet]

...snip...I could only imagine how much Hawken cost for Reloaded... snip

 

I believe someone learned it was $80,000.

 

And they will be making their return on that very quickly when the Android console version becomes available.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I heard 30,000 being mentioned a couple of times.

[crockrocket]

I heard 30,000 being mentioned a couple of times.

 

I feel like that's just too low. Granted I don't know anything about game value in general, but you're telling me Hawken was pawned off for the price of a sedan? I don't buy it

 

 

 

 

I believe someone learned it was $80,000.

 

And they will be making their return on that very quickly when the Android console version becomes available.

 

I don't remember, did they ever provide any official comment on that? Was that what Tiggs was talking about with "look for an announcement from a partner"?

Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 03 February 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[Nov8tr]

Do you have evidence of the changes reloaded made here?  I thought they messed with some of the prices to see if there was any effect on new players, decided there wasn't, and just put everything back to where it was when they took over.  Could be wrong on that.  But, its kind of important for my next point.

 

In answer to your question. Yes I am certain, as many, mnay people here can tell you. As a example the Bruiser cost use to be 6000-6500 HC if I remember right. The mechs used to have different prices for A, B & C mechs. Gear also use to have different prices. Now all mechs are the same price. Yes they did mess around with the prices, several times. And no they never did return them to the original prices. Hope that helps. Take care.

 

Oh and the price of the game. Best I could find out when Reloaded got it was around 80k as well. Could be wrong though. Not wrote in stone.

Edited by Nov8tr, 03 February 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[Sylhiri]

I believe someone learned it was $80,000.

 

That's actually really, really cheap.

[dorobo]

Maybe they fixed it up a bit and reselling now for ONE million dollar to some giant chinesse corporation 

[HugeGuts]

dorobo, that is a possibility. I remember someone digging up Hawken having a connection to a Chinese video game company while ADH was still in charge.

Between this, Hawken for Android, and the peanuts spent in obtaining the IP, my current dread is Reloaded will only "fix" the game enough to make it look appealing to a bigger buyer, and then sell the IP off to someone else. Or release Hawken to an unsuspecting audience (Android), milk them for all the profit they can, and then put the game into infinite maintenance mode.

[crockrocket]

Between this, Hawken for Android, and the peanuts spent in obtaining the IP, my current dread is Reloaded will only "fix" the game enough to make it look appealing to a bigger buyer, and then sell the IP off to someone else. 

If this new company gives more than half a shite about the community we'll have an improvement

[CraftyDus]

I've never understood this obsession you f2p ppl have with constant dev attention.
It's completely unnecessary to a thriving game community.
If the games available to play, play the game.
If there's no devs arriving to regularly worship, it's totally ok.

[DerMax]

I've never understood this obsession you f2p ppl have with constant dev attention.
It's completely unnecessary to a thriving game community.
If the games available to play, play the game.
If there's no devs arriving to regularly worship, it's totally ok.

It's not about constant dev attention, it's about the trend.

 

What started so well, with weekly updates, dev streams, much discussion and "I'm open to it" has been slowly regressing to the lack thereof. Weekly updates turned into monthly updates and then into no updates. Boisterous forum activity turned into just thread nuking. No more dev streams and no discussion. The promise to start introducing the new dev team members after Christmas? Broken. The promise to reveal the new partner? Broken.

 

It's about the trend, not dev attention.

[CraftyDus]

The way I see it the game plays, so there's no problem.
Devs left in 2014

[LaurenEmily]

"Sorry for the absent communication, guys! After carefully reviewing your comments we've decided it's time to make a few changes that will increase Hawken's appeal as a mech fighter game. First and foremost, we acknowledge that the game is a little too fast right now. We'd like to address that here with our first big patch which contains a LOT of new mech animations and functionality. Thanks for your patience and we can't wait to release the next patch!

 

Changelog:

 

* Turret mode has been added to all mechs. It is now permanently engaged.

 

Enjoy!"

[Aregon]

http://i.imgur.com/TnMdYhE.webm

Lesson of the day:

 

Replace .webm/gifv to .gif to create a gif.

 

Result: http://i.imgur.com/TnMdYhE.gif

[Durandal1707]

Maybe they fixed it up a bit and reselling now for ONE million dollar to some giant chinesse corporation 

Hope they sold it to EA

[Chickin]

Lesson of the day:

 

Replace .webm/gifv to .gif to create a gif.

 

Result: http://i.imgur.com/TnMdYhE.gif

 

Tnx, but what is the difference anyways.

[dorobo]

Maybe in murica it plays.. In eu you would probably have to wait for that magic moment each night when and IF all the better dudes might come in to one server for a one or two enjoyable games the rest is a waste of time. Maybe those clan people get some action in that locked up server but even they probably struggle to get 12 people on :) And that troll dude that returns after each ban with more ridiculous name each time.. He was probably banned like 10 times now. 

[DallasCreeper]

And that troll dude that returns after each ban with more ridiculous name each time.. He was probably banned like 10 times now. 

Which one?

[dorobo]

Which one?

they call him EPA :) but he keeps mutating anyways the head stays the same.. he is known for his passive/active feeding outbursts.

Edited by dorobo, 04 February 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[HugeGuts]

* Turret mode has been added to all mechs. It is now permanently engaged.

 

That might actually be an improvement! SA Hawkins Brawler in constant turret mode was a fun and viable play style in Ascension. Shame it never caught on though. It was fairly effective against the "Scout and Infiltrator corner poking" meta.

 

The promise to reveal the new partner? Broken.

 

Pretty sure their partner relates to the Android release. It just wasn't officially announced on the front page. I remember Josh saying their partner is to be part of some "big news" in December. That "big news" turned out to be Hawken on Android.

 

Hope they sold it to EA

 

Lol. So there can no longer be even the tiniest ounce of hope that Hawken will turn out to be a decent game and we can all finally go home?

[Meraple]

Tnx, but what is the difference anyways.

The difference is that you can do this, no more need to click on a link to view it:

 

[CraftyDus]

dorobIe, I streamed Europe pubs all day Tuesday, game plays fine.
I don't need a dev to spoon feed me attention, and so can we.

[Durandal1707]

 

Lol. So there can no longer be even the tiniest ounce of hope that Hawken will turn out to be a decent game and we can all finally go home?

 

Yes, don't you want to be free?

[Superkamikazee]

I'm actually surprised reloaded is even keeping Hawken up on Steam for download. Talk about a cash grab. The game is in an abysmal state, and at the off chance a new player jumls in, spends some cash, they're burned. That's good for the brand, that's good for the business.

[TheButtSatisfier]

I've never understood this obsession you f2p ppl have with constant dev attention.
It's completely unnecessary to a thriving game community.

 

We have a number of players that devote a large portion of their free time to this game, but in terms of population growth, we're a stagnant / shrinking community. When the devs marketed the game in the past we experienced population growth. They likely won't market the game without doing some development first. As a result, many people see development of this game as both a direct and indirect method of promoting Hawken.

 

I don't need a dev to spoon feed me attention, and so can we.

 

The way I see it the game plays, so there's no problem.
Devs left in 2014

 

It sounds like you are content with the game in its current state. That's great, but other people want the community to grow, and they're looking to the people who are in the best position to facilitate that - the devs. It's misleading to paint them as trying to receive spoon-fed attention from the devs.

 

I'm saying all of this not really expecting much from the devs. I'll play this game until I get tired of it, and that'll be it. That point may be delayed if there's enough new stuff here to keep me interested. But I think it's stupidly simple to appreciate why people are wondering where the dev communication is if they have any interest in seeing this game and its community grow and evolve.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 04 February 2016 - 09:02 AM.