229 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

Honestly, if you feel you need to see the Hellfire in use against skilled players, I could hop in a match against some of my ingame friends which includes some of the best players currently in the game. I won't end up going on a rampage like in that video, but I could still prove that it's workable in CQC to some extent and against A-mechs.

That said Zyrusticae, I think we both want a more skill-based Hellfires, so I don't see any real point in trying to prove it's useful. as I'd much prefer it would change.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, December 19 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah, after trying to use it in a match against a skilled friend I can't even imagine it seeing much use over the long-term in its current state. Against regular-skill players it's fine; against anyone who knows how it works it's basically impossible to land. I immediately saw massive improvement from switching back to my recruit in those matches.

If you know what you're doing, it's basically impossible to miss with a TOW (though you might only catch them on the edge of the explosion radius). It's just so forgiving.

[Deu]

z121231211, on December 19 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Deu, on December 19 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Omega22, on December 19 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

and i am talking about have a clear , unblocked shot and you fire for a direct hit and it flys off target like a spread/bloom effect.... what gives man...

so i dont think its about skill... skill is about dodge  enemy fire

Oh it's Omega22 /skiptext

How about instead of quoting him stating that you're going to disregard what he says you should use the features made specifically for that.

Why start being logical now of all times when we can continue the pointless bickering that makes me feel so good. I made other post making valid points. How about you use those features ignore me and move along_

"Since players are getting better awareness we should change the weapons to counter that." This is the op's new opinion. I'm not here to try to tell you the HFM is not bad but mostly your reasoning behind why it needs to be changed is just not right. You want to fuzzy the missiles for all the wrong reasons.

Edited by Deu, December 19 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[Zyrusticae]

No, you really have to balance the weapons at higher levels of play, otherwise some weapons will completely drop out of use in skilled play, which is a serious issue when there's not even that many weapons in the game to begin with. Plus, y'know, buyer's remorse and all that.

And my point hasn't changed at all. I said skilled players will find many ways to counter the weapon, and that's exactly what's happening.

[matsnake]

Played a lot tonight....

Well i have to agree with Zyrusticae.
The weapon is good as support role in teams.

But in 1v1 if you enemy is not retarded you will have hard time to get out victorious.
Some changes must be done imho.

[Deu]

Zyrusticae, on December 19 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

No, you really have to balance the weapons at higher levels of play, otherwise some weapons will completely drop out of use in skilled play, which is a serious issue when there's not even that many weapons in the game to begin with. Plus, y'know, buyer's remorse and all that.

And my point hasn't changed at all. I said skilled players will find many ways to counter the weapon, and that's exactly what's happening.

Again you are just saying that's what will happen with no idea of the stats the weapons each hold. Of course things become harder against better skilled players. You are just saying things down to the common denominator that everyone will agree with. Balancing the game is not balancing the skilled players down to the fresh little fuzzy bunnys coming around.

[Zyrusticae]

I don't think you are comprehending my point.

The point is that the TOW is highly effective in all situations against both skilled and new players.

The Hellfire is effective only in one situation against new players and completely ineffective against skilled players.

That's what I'm saying. Nothing to do with "balancing the skilled players down to the fresh little fuzzy bunnys coming around". I don't even know how you went from here to there.

[ogFrag]

Yes team play is critical in all circumstances.  Though, I think HFM don't deal enough damage and is not accurate enough.  I play Rocketeer for team support and it works ok if the team knows they are being supported and don't turn tail and run every time they take damage.  Which leaves the silos open for take over anyways...  but my point.     After going through all the trouble of locking on and launching and hopefully not losing half the missles to the wall next to you, one would think they would do some serious damage.  ANd yet at range most take the hit and retreat behind cover to repair.  They are only effective at a distance when the target is completely engaged with another opponent.  Up close they are completely useless too.  They should do some damage even when fired without lock at close range but instead of flying forward they do this bloom spread and half the time kill yourself.  Even the weapon is listed as only 3 of 5 in accuracy___  For a weapon with lock on what is that logic_  I am learning the tricks like launching them straight up after lock to avoid hitting every tower on the way to the target but it seems like only about twenty percent of the time do all of them actually land.  The technique that works best for me is HFM lock, fire two seekers and while they are in the air fire the HFs and more seekers.  Then you get a heavy barage all at once but of course if there is any cover this does not work...

[Beemann]

Weapons should ideally allow for a proper skill curve such that they aren't holding players back at high levels
The Hellfire missiles currently do. in order to get better past a certain point you have to drop that weapon and relearn the TOW, Sabot or GL
Hence my skill centric suggestions

[TwiceDead]

Deu, on December 19 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

"Since players are getting better awareness we should change the weapons to counter that." Is the op's new opinion.

I know a counter to that. Create a weapon that mutes the sound on the enemy's speakers! Also create a weapon that fires ink! AND INK GUN! Make it hit-scan as well, so that when you look at the opponent and fire you blind their entire screen for the rest of the game.

[ShadowSkulkerer]

I agree with your second point.   Otherwise I'd leave it alone.   I really would like to see this one thing touched though.

[Karaipantsu]

Outside of that frankly AMAZING laser targeting idea, I'd like to see the Lock-on persist a little longer after you move out of the current "range" of the lock ability.  I hate establishing a lock, my target dashing around a corner and firing off my missiles only to see my lock has dropped when I was trying to fire them around the corner and still tag him.

[c0mad0r]

Hellfires are an amazing distance weapon and anti-sharpshooter device.

It's a trade-off:

TOW = Deadfire, no lock on, high damage
Hellfire = Smart, Lock-on, medium damage

Pick which one works for YOU and don't worry about it,

Signed,

[oENDERo]

I think there needs to be another primary weapon that we can give the bruiser, I never will understand the reasoning behind the hellfire's being on the bruiser when he's supposed to be... well a bruiser...

[Karaipantsu]

Maybe because Hellfires require skill and are the highest damage weapon in the game when used properly_  I'd call that a hell of a bruise

[oENDERo]

Then why shield_ The term bruiser generally implies close range.

[Zyrusticae]

Karaipantsu, on December 19 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Maybe because Hellfires require skill and are the highest damage weapon in the game when used properly_  I'd call that a hell of a bruise

Actually, this is wrong. They have the highest potential burst damage but their firing rate puts their DPS below that of the TOW (48 for the Hellfire vs 55 for the TOW).

And no amount of skill is going to let you hit a skilled player up-close with Hellfires, sorry.

Edited by Zyrusticae, December 19 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Rei]

(As a new bruiser player) Only lvl 9 (21 on CRT) at the moment, but here's my 2 cents. Hellfire rockets are pretty good at covering entrance chokepoints for a good amount of time. They're really scary if they hit, but they aren't good in a 1v1 situation since they're pretty easy to dodge and cover from. It's definitely a support weapon. Bruisers are more of a mobile tank that deals good damage by staying in. Your special skill is pretty good as a bruiser imo. I pop it a lot when engaging multiple enemies and it's usually the reason I'm alive at the end of the engagement. I find myself getting a ton of assists which I think is more than enough since I'm contributing. I would like to see some ammo/offense customization like missile turn radius + slightly lower damage. Or higher damage + slightly worse turn radius. Just a thought.

Edited by Rei, December 19 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[Omega22]

HELLFIRE MISSLES = CRUISE MISSLES

by the time you fire, inflight goes the hell missles and its like slow motion .. the enemy mech has enough time to evade 100%

this is Again i will say it a BLOODY JOKE OF A WEAPON

please live up to the real weapon ...

[Karaipantsu]

I went 24/6 with my level 2 brawler last night.  Hellfires are hardly that bad, mang.  Went up 3 levels from that match, too.  

Zyrusticae, on December 19 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Actually, this is wrong. They have the highest potential burst damage but their firing rate puts their DPS below that of the TOW (48 for the Hellfire vs 55 for the TOW).

And no amount of skill is going to let you hit a skilled player up-close with Hellfires, sorry.

You know saying the hellfires are the highest burst damage in contest to my claim that they deal the most damage is saying the same thing, right_  A full blast of Hellfires is 30% damage more than a single TOW round, and it really isn't that hard to connect with.  They're also far FAR less heat per round than the TOW.  And they can be dumbfired, just like they were a tow.  You're going to connect with most of the rockets if your aim is good, and that's a boatload of damage.