139 replies to this topic

[BurnsHot]

Beemann, on May 02 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on April 29 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Stalemates do NOT occur in Siege mode.

There are times when it feels like the two teams are evenly match and the fights at the AA are prolonged but that is what creates those EPIC battles that make the Victory/Defeat that much more meaningful.

It is virtually impossible to Snipe the Battleship and actually blow it up before it reaches your base and deals out damage.  The opposing team simply will not allow your team to stand in the open and do this.  By the time it has reached your base even if the team is behind the base walls, the team could not shoot the ship down in time before it deals damage.

...So the fact that we've blown up the ship when it has max health with no damage to the base means what to you exactly_

@Beeman  You like going back and forth don't you_  We've been over this, what ten times already_  The Dev's patched Siege mode so it is more difficult to blow up the ship so as to prevent long and drawn out games.

[Beemann]

BurnsHot, on May 06 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 02 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on April 29 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Stalemates do NOT occur in Siege mode.

There are times when it feels like the two teams are evenly match and the fights at the AA are prolonged but that is what creates those EPIC battles that make the Victory/Defeat that much more meaningful.

It is virtually impossible to Snipe the Battleship and actually blow it up before it reaches your base and deals out damage.  The opposing team simply will not allow your team to stand in the open and do this.  By the time it has reached your base even if the team is behind the base walls, the team could not shoot the ship down in time before it deals damage.

...So the fact that we've blown up the ship when it has max health with no damage to the base means what to you exactly_

@Beeman  You like going back and forth don't you_  We've been over this, what ten times already_  The Dev's patched Siege mode so it is more difficult to blow up the ship so as to prevent long and drawn out games.

That doesn't change the fact that you can still blow up the ship and draw out the game just as long

[Mal3fic]

I quit because the Tech... and what 141441490519501 said... to many not so good players getting their jollies while actual good players can't manage the load. It's lost, I only find solace in Mayhem...

[BurnsHot]

Beemann, on May 06 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on May 06 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 02 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on April 29 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Stalemates do NOT occur in Siege mode.

There are times when it feels like the two teams are evenly match and the fights at the AA are prolonged but that is what creates those EPIC battles that make the Victory/Defeat that much more meaningful.

It is virtually impossible to Snipe the Battleship and actually blow it up before it reaches your base and deals out damage.  The opposing team simply will not allow your team to stand in the open and do this.  By the time it has reached your base even if the team is behind the base walls, the team could not shoot the ship down in time before it deals damage.

...So the fact that we've blown up the ship when it has max health with no damage to the base means what to you exactly_

@Beeman  You like going back and forth don't you_  We've been over this, what ten times already_  The Dev's patched Siege mode so it is more difficult to blow up the ship so as to prevent long and drawn out games.

That doesn't change the fact that you can still blow up the ship and draw out the game just as long

Short of producing a new video of your team blowing up the ship, you are basing your response on old information.  I play Siege more times this week then I care to admit.  The only way you are going to blow up the ship is to target the engines.  You can't do that until the ship is practically at your base.  By this time, it will deal out considerable damage.  The Dev's fixed the problem of long drawn out battles from the possibility of teams camped in base and taking out the ship.  Can we move on_

This post is about who still plays Siege not who can post last that their position is right or wrong.  I Still play Siege and love it.  A lot of players agree with me.  Look at the votes.  

On a side note, I don't think the Devs have much interest (time) in changing Siege.  Instead they have indicated that they are working on NEW game modes. Siege is pretty much in final form.

[OdinTheWise]

BurnsHot, on May 19 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Beemann, on May 06 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on May 06 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 02 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on April 29 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Stalemates do NOT occur in Siege mode.

There are times when it feels like the two teams are evenly match and the fights at the AA are prolonged but that is what creates those EPIC battles that make the Victory/Defeat that much more meaningful.

It is virtually impossible to Snipe the Battleship and actually blow it up before it reaches your base and deals out damage.  The opposing team simply will not allow your team to stand in the open and do this.  By the time it has reached your base even if the team is behind the base walls, the team could not shoot the ship down in time before it deals damage.

...So the fact that we've blown up the ship when it has max health with no damage to the base means what to you exactly_

@Beeman  You like going back and forth don't you_  We've been over this, what ten times already_  The Dev's patched Siege mode so it is more difficult to blow up the ship so as to prevent long and drawn out games.

That doesn't change the fact that you can still blow up the ship and draw out the game just as long

Short of producing a new video of your team blowing up the ship, you are basing your response on old information.  I play Siege more times this week then I care to admit.  The only way you are going to blow up the ship is to target the engines.  You can't do that until the ship is practically at your base.  By this time, it will deal out considerable damage.  The Dev's fixed the problem of long drawn out battles from the possibility of teams camped in base and taking out the ship.  Can we move on_

This post is about who still plays Siege not who can post last that their position is right or wrong.  I Still play Siege and love it.  A lot of players agree with me.  Look at the votes.  

On a side note, I don't think the Devs have much interest (time) in changing Siege.  Instead they have indicated that they are working on NEW game modes. Siege is pretty much in final form.

I honestly think that siege is awful, the only time this game mode is acceptable is when I am rolling with a coordinated team. There are to manny glory grabbing morons who fail to work with a team.

[BurnsHot]

OdinTheWise, on May 19 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I honestly think that siege is awful, the only time this game mode is acceptable is when I am rolling with a coordinated team. There are to manny glory grabbing morons who fail to work with a team.

How is that a problem with the game mode_  Match making would be more to blame the way you described it and as for Morons... there is no fix....

[Beemann]

BurnsHot, on May 19 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Short of producing a new video of your team blowing up the ship, you are basing your response on old information.  I play Siege more times this week then I care to admit.  The only way you are going to blow up the ship is to target the engines.  You can't do that until the ship is practically at your base.  By this time, it will deal out considerable damage.  The Dev's fixed the problem of long drawn out battles from the possibility of teams camped in base and taking out the ship.  Can we move on_

Hold on, lets examine your broken logic here
If we don't RECORD all of the tests that we did, then we're basing all of our info on the first test_ Cool Story Bro
Additionally, you can hit the ship clear across the map. We've been able to do that since the closed beta tests
Asserting that it's impossible based on your own lack of skill in this matter isn't really conducive to having a proper discussion on Siege. The fact of the matter is that organized teams have been able to destroy the battleship in every patch, consistently, and without taking damage. We've shown this to ADH, and they understand it's still doable

BurnsHot, on May 19 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

This post is about who still plays Siege not who can post last that their position is right or wrong.  I Still play Siege and love it.  A lot of players agree with me.  Look at the votes.  

On a side note, I don't think the Devs have much interest (time) in changing Siege.  Instead they have indicated that they are working on NEW game modes. Siege is pretty much in final form.

Loving it, and it being popular, dont change the fact that it's broken. Additionally the devs have stated that they are not, in fact, done with Siege

[Thyleon]

Beemann, on May 19 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Loving it, and it being popular, dont change the fact that it's broken. Additionally the devs have stated that they are not, in fact, done with Siege

Mind enlightening me on that post since I can't seem to find it through the search feature_ (Not moving goal posts quite yet just looking to see your information before I make an argument.)

Thanks

[AsianJoyKiller]

Thyleon, on May 19 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 19 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Loving it, and it being popular, dont change the fact that it's broken. Additionally the devs have stated that they are not, in fact, done with Siege

Mind enlightening me on that post since I can't seem to find it through the search feature_ (Not moving goal posts quite yet just looking to see your information before I make an argument.)

Thanks

They've mentioned it in multiple interviews, like the one I conducted with Hugs, and The Cockpit conducted with Hughes (I think), various threads on the forums, in the IRC run by Ashfire and in multiple private mumble/teamspeak servers (Scapes mentioned it while in the SK Mumble). Half the forums can vouch for this.

[TheVulong]

I am.

Siege now is awful. Requires a complete remake.

Edited by TheVulong, May 19 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[Thyleon]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 19 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Thyleon, on May 19 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 19 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Loving it, and it being popular, dont change the fact that it's broken. Additionally the devs have stated that they are not, in fact, done with Siege

Mind enlightening me on that post since I can't seem to find it through the search feature_ (Not moving goal posts quite yet just looking to see your information before I make an argument.)

Thanks

They've mentioned it in multiple interviews, like the one I conducted with Hugs, and The Cockpit conducted with Hughes (I think), various threads on the forums, in the IRC run by Ashfire and in multiple private mumble/teamspeak servers (Scapes mentioned it while in the SK Mumble). Half the forums can vouch for this.

So what's the problem with Siege at the moment_ The open maps where you can actively shoot the Cruiser from across the map_ What are the proposed solutions increase the HP on the Cruiser and still keep the AA's base damage 10% of the Cruisers HP_ Or have other solutions been offered_ Cause in reality I can see where that would be a problem if you can blow a Cruiser up from across the map without your base taking damage (Hasn't happened in any of my matches ~1800-2000 MMR). Seems like a simple solution in my opinion.

Edited by Thyleon, May 19 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

One thing that might help is the ability to shed/dump EU someplace you think the opposition won't get it, and at the timing of your (Pilot's) choosing.

This way, the team holding the AA *has* to leave the AA (if your team is smart enough to not-rush into battle with more than the default energy) to collect enough energy to launch a ship (not simply make a dash from the AA to the dump rings and back).

I'd like to see different, bigger maps, with multiple ways to launch a ship, or else multiple crew-served weapon types (not just the battleship torpedo we currently have, but another type of endeavor/objective that can, if unopposed, take down the enemy base).

Prescheduling (by registration) bigger maps/battles and balancing the teams ahead-of-time - then offering the slots to the general public five minutes into play if there are vacancies - might be a way to drum up really-big interest.  "Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! It's the World of Hawken!"

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, May 19 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Thyleon, on May 19 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

So what's the problem with Siege at the moment_ The open maps where you can actively shoot the Cruiser from across the map_ What are the proposed solutions increase the HP on the Cruiser and still keep the AA's base damage 10% of the Cruisers HP_ Or have other solutions been offered_ Cause in reality I can see where that would be a problem if you can blow a Cruiser up from across the map without your base taking damage (Hasn't happened in any of my matches ~1800-2000 MMR). Seems like a simple solution in my opinion.

That's part of the problem, but the general design of Siege seems to be problematic.

I think the main problem with Siege is, when you get down to it, it's nothing more than a glorified King-of-the-Hill, especially if it becomes hard/impossible to shoot down the ship via mech.

Beemann has suggested numerous improvements to Siege mode. Gametype theorycrafting is more his realm than mine.

[Snacuum]

Don't like Seige at current. I don't like the way the match shifts from state to state in such a linear fashion, where each state has such a tired strategy.

Start and go for energy. Most teams I've been with here don't fight, and the map design does not encourage it. So everyone just goes to their 'designated' EU point and goes back and forth - boring.

Then freak out and go to the AA. Back to Blob vs. Blob. I find this part incredibly unclear, trying to fight and watch the battleship and I can hardly tell whether AA is being used effectively or not - confusing.

Then drop everything and run back to base to snipe the battleship - boring. If your team is winning you could shift the blob to the enemy base but most I've seen just camp at AA or start EU collecting again knowing that their ship is going to take a hefty chunk out of the enemy.

[BurnsHot]

Beemann, on May 19 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

The fact of the matter is that organized teams have been able to destroy the battleship in every patch, consistently, and without taking damage. We've shown this to ADH, and they understand it's still doable

You just won't quit unless you get the last word.  You and now me are starting to sound like broken records.  Yes you found an exploit.  Yes you made ADH aware of it.  Yes they took measures to fix it.

No you dont need to bump this tread with a response......

[Beemann]

Thyleon, on May 19 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

So what's the problem with Siege at the moment_ The open maps where you can actively shoot the Cruiser from across the map_ What are the proposed solutions increase the HP on the Cruiser and still keep the AA's base damage 10% of the Cruisers HP_ Or have other solutions been offered_ Cause in reality I can see where that would be a problem if you can blow a Cruiser up from across the map without your base taking damage (Hasn't happened in any of my matches ~1800-2000 MMR). Seems like a simple solution in my opinion.

1. You can shoot down the ship indefinitely
2. If you can't, the game effectively becomes an overly convoluted King of the Hill, and there's no reason to not camp the AA if you can hold it indefinitely
3. The EU stage doesn't promote fights in organised matches (best way to collect safely is to stay in a group. Harassment runs the risk of getting picked and having your team pushed off their node)
4. All the S2 issues in MA are made worse in Siege, as it's the only score-relevant point on the map

As for why you're not seeing this happen... well... basically the community is primarily made up of people who arent aware of the strat, or who actively choose not to use it. Many of our members play Siege matches the way the devs expected them to be played, because the alternative just isn't much fun. However, the moment anyone gets serious business about the game mode its flaws become painfully obvious (for hours)

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 19 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

One thing that might help is the ability to shed/dump EU someplace you think the opposition won't get it, and at the timing of your (Pilot's) choosing.

Why wouldn't I just dump the EU in my base_

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 19 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

This way, the team holding the AA *has* to leave the AA (if your team is smart enough to not-rush into battle with more than the default energy) to collect enough energy to launch a ship (not simply make a dash from the AA to the dump rings and back).

Your EU amount ticks down slowly. If a comp team has to wait in a tiny box for 40 minutes to score, that's what they'll do
Even then though, why would you want to allow them to grab the EU_ Why wouldnt you dump it into the ship_ Are you suggesting that they limit the EU that each tree provides per "round" of EU collection, and somehow prevent both teams from instantly spending the EU they have_

BurnsHot, on May 19 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

You just won't quit unless you get the last word.  You and now me are starting to sound like broken records.  Yes you found an exploit.  Yes you made ADH aware of it.  Yes they took measures to fix it.

No you dont need to bump this tread with a response......

Protip: If you don't want me to point out that you're ignoring the facts, stop doing so
Additionally
If you dont want people to respond to your posts, dont give them anything to respond to
You dont have to respond either, you can always just let it go, assuming you're not just trying to get the last word in while accusing me of doing so for responding to some of the utterly ridiculous statements you've made

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Beemann, on May 20 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 19 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

One thing that might help is the ability to shed/dump EU someplace you think the opposition won't get it, and at the timing of your (Pilot's) choosing.

Why wouldn't I just dump the EU in my base_

Because a) if your ship is in flight, it won't work, and b ) why force me to go all that way back (and miss the fight) rather than dump (intentionally waste) the EU I've got and go fight_

Quote

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 19 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

This way, the team holding the AA *has* to leave the AA (if your team is smart enough to not-rush into battle with more than the default energy) to collect enough energy to launch a ship (not simply make a dash from the AA to the dump rings and back).

Your EU amount ticks down slowly. If a comp team has to wait in a tiny box for 40 minutes to score, that's what they'll do
Even then though, why would you want to allow them to grab the EU_ Why wouldnt you dump it into the ship_ Are you suggesting that they limit the EU that each tree provides per "round" of EU collection, and somehow prevent both teams from instantly spending the EU they have_

Not sure you got my intent.  I am not suggesting that what the tree can dispense be limited.  Nor am I suggesting place any control of how much EU can be 'spent'.

If I want to dump EU to not-carry it into the AA (and potentially give it to the enemy when I die), I'd dump it someplace where I think the enemy won't find/get to it within the 30s it takes 'free' energy to dissipate.  Then, the enemy in the AA is not handed 'free' EU other than what was in my mech by default.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, May 20 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Thyleon]

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 20 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Beemann, on May 20 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Call_Me_Ishmael, on May 19 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

One thing that might help is the ability to shed/dump EU someplace you think the opposition won't get it, and at the timing of your (Pilot's) choosing.

Why wouldn't I just dump the EU in my base_

Because a) if your ship is in flight, it won't work, and b ) why force me to go all that way back (and miss the fight) rather than dump (intentionally waste) the EU I've got and go fight_

He doesn't mean dump the EU off at the base deposit he means inside the base.

[AsianJoyKiller]

BurnsHot, on May 19 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

You just won't quit unless you get the last word.  You and now me are starting to sound like broken records.  Yes you found an exploit.  Yes you made ADH aware of it.  Yes they took measures to fix it.

And yes, the measures they took failed to fix the problem.

You can keep ignoring that FACT, which has been tested since the last time Siege was altered, by people not affiliated with the Steel Killers, but that will not make it any less true.

FACT is, that Siege is broken on a fundamental level. No amount of your denial can change that. It is an objective truth, entirely unswayed by whatever opinions we hold, and however we feel about it.

[N0stalgia]

Wait, how is siege broken_ Is it because if a team just holds the AA and does nothing else, they win indefinately_

Still, it is a fun game mode. I think the ships get stronger as the game progresses am I right_ The first is easy to shoot down, the third is damn near impossible_ Thats how it feels to me.

I play Siege a lot. If EU didn't slowly accumulate, only holding the AA isn't a viable option. Then, they'd have to prevent a stalemate occurance by adding a time limit - even though I hate the idea of time limits. Problem solved or am I missing something_

Besides, is it really that bad if its just a nuanced and complicated king of the hill_

Edited by N0stalgia, May 20 2013 - 10:52 AM.