128 replies to this topic

[tortuousGoddess]

From what I've seen, a lot of community members are in agreement about the Sharpshooter's Ballistic Barrage ability: It just doesn't fit the role that the SS plays. While it's great on the Berzerker, which is a mech that plays with the goal of dealing high amounts of damage quickly, on a more passive mech like the Sharpshooter, it feels unwieldly, unsatisfying, and it rarely seems to have more than a minimal effect. The SS simply doesn't have the tools to take advantage of it. What I'd like to see is this ability replaced with something more suited to giving supporting fire; the Sharpshooter's primary goal. I propose the following ability, or something similar, be used to this end:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks cause the target to be unable to thrust or dodge for 2 seconds.

Alternatively:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks reduce the target's dodge, thrust, and walking speeds by 35% for 2 seconds.

This ability would serve the purpose of locking down opponents for your allies, giving them the perfect chance to make a decisive strike, while simultaneously giving the Sharpshooter a window of opportunity to land successive shots and keep the effect going. I feel that an ability like this would be much more gratifying to use and more applicable to the Sharpshooter's unique role.

[ParryDox]

The first option you gave would probably be called a bit overpowered, considering the hate on the Rev-GL's stunlock bug, but I like the second option, but it should be for the Sabot only, or else a SS would be hell on the battlefield(the SA Hawkins would be viable though). Maybe instead of seconds, number of shots_ 2 maybe_

[TwiceDead]

I say no. Not everyone enjoys being a backseat SS. I enjoy being on the frontlines, dishing out damage and holding my own in a 1 on 1. I don't want to be reliant on my teammates all the time, and the current SS ability really helps out in a CQC situation.

[Analysis]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

From what I've seen, a lot of community members are in agreement about the Sharpshooter's Ballistic Barrage ability: It just doesn't fit the role that the SS plays. While it's great on the Berzerker, which is a mech that plays with the goal of dealing high amounts of damage quickly, on a more passive mech like the Sharpshooter, it feels unwieldly, unsatisfying, and it rarely seems to have more than a minimal effect. The SS simply doesn't have the tools to take advantage of it. What I'd like to see is this ability replaced with something more suited to giving supporting fire; the Sharpshooter's primary goal. I propose the following ability, or something similar, be used to this end:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks cause the target to be unable to thrust or dodge for 2 seconds.

Alternatively:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks reduce the target's dodge, thrust, and walking speeds by 35% for 2 seconds.

This ability would serve the purpose of locking down opponents for your allies, giving them the perfect chance to make a decisive strike, while simultaneously giving the Sharpshooter a window of opportunity to land successive shots and keep the effect going. I feel that an ability like this would be much more gratifying to use and more applicable to the Sharpshooter's unique role.

Movement is slow enough in this game. This suggested ability would make the sharpshooter God Tier.

[tortuousGoddess]

ParryDox, on December 30 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

The first option you gave would probably be called a bit overpowered, considering the hate on the Rev-GL's stunlock bug, but I like the second option, but it should be for the Sabot only, or else a SS would be hell on the battlefield(the SA Hawkins would be viable though). Maybe instead of seconds, number of shots_ 2 maybe_

Well, the stunlock bug is annoying and overpowered because it stops ALL movement and momentum. This ability wouldn't do that. I can't say it should be Sabot only, because then you'd only get one shot out of it and it would be very weak. I don't really think the first effect is overpowered though, it's the same effect as being out of fuel. I could see it being based on number of shots instead though. Perhaps another alternative:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: The Sharpshooter's next 3 shots prevent the target from thrusting or dodging for 2 seconds. Expires after 10 seconds.

Or:


Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: The Sharpshooter's next 3 shots reduce the target's thrust, dodge, and walking speeds by 35% for 2 seconds. Expires after 10 seconds.

I could see that working as well, but it would make the ability less useful with the Hawkins.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, December 30 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[tortuousGoddess]

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

I say no. Not everyone enjoys being a backseat SS. I enjoy being on the frontlines, dishing out damage and holding my own in a 1 on 1. I don't want to be reliant on my teammates all the time, and the current SS ability really helps out in a CQC situation.

Actually this ability would be better for CQC than Ballistic Barrage.

[SilentJacket]

I don't see where the Hawkins would have an advantage over anything anyway, so it wouldn't really matter

I play the SS a lot and the ability as it is now is great for the SS, especially when you need to hit fast, and hard.

It is barely competent in cqc, and changing the ability to what you suggested would make the SS useless for anything outside of siege.

adding to the fact that most maps have a lot of corners and what not to hide from sniper rounds, the current ability is important in dealing as much damage as you can before they hide.

Edited by SilentJacket, December 30 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[tortuousGoddess]

SilentJacket, on December 30 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

I don't see where the Hawkens would have an advantage over anything anyway, so it wouldn't really matter

I play the SS a lot and the ability as it is now is great for the SS, especially when you need to hit fast, and hard.

It is barely competent in cqc, and changing the ability to what you suggested would make the SS useless for anything outside of siege.

adding to the fact that most maps have a lot of corners and what not to hide from sniper rounds, the current ability is important in dealing as much damage as you can before they hide.

The current ability only increases damage by 10%. It isn't very much, especially when you probably will only get a few shots out of it. This ability, however, gives you a window to land successive shots, keeping them from getting to cover long enough to land an extra hit. Proper application would improve your DPS significantly.

I have to say that I find it humorous that this ability is being called both god tier and useless in the same page.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

The current ability only increases damage by 10%. It isn't very much, especially when you probably will only get a few shots out of it. This ability, however, gives you a window to land successive shots, keeping them from getting to cover long enough to land an extra hit. Proper application would improve your DPS significantly.

I have to say that I find it humorous that this ability is being called both god tier and useless in the same page.

I am not using entirely accurate numbers, just rough-cuts.
10% per slug round is about 7 extra damage per shot. 10% per sabot round is about 13 extra damage. That's 20 if you fire both at once, which gives you around 220 damage in less than one second which is about half the HP of an A-class and 30% of a B-class. Take into account that the ability lasts 7 seconds, which gives you two sabot rounds, and 1 slug round every second (rough guess) that gives you 7 * 7 = 49 + 26 = 75 additional damage dealt should you keep a constant fire the entire duration. Now we haven't taken the 70 or so damage the slug does into account every hit, nor the sabots 130 ish damage, so rough math 70 * 7 = 490 + 49 = 539, land all seven shots and you have a dead A-class, and we didn't even take into account the the sabot round you managed to land at the beginning of the encounter.

Okay I'm gonna stop there... My brain can't take all these numbers. ¦3

Edited by TwiceDead, December 30 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[tortuousGoddess]

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

The current ability only increases damage by 10%. It isn't very much, especially when you probably will only get a few shots out of it. This ability, however, gives you a window to land successive shots, keeping them from getting to cover long enough to land an extra hit. Proper application would improve your DPS significantly.

I have to say that I find it humorous that this ability is being called both god tier and useless in the same page.

I am not using entirely accurate numbers, just rough-cuts.
10% per slug round is about 7 extra damage per shot. 10% per sabot round is about 13 extra damage. That's 20 if you fire both at once, which gives you around 220 damage in less than one second which is about half the HP of an A-class and 30% of a B-class. Take into account that the ability lasts 7 seconds, which gives you two sabot rounds, and 1 slug round every second (rough guess) that gives you 7 * 7 = 49 + 26 = 75 additional damage dealt should you keep a constant fire the entire duration. Now we haven't taken the 70 or so damage the slug does into account every hit, nor the sabots 130 ish damage, so rough math 70 * 7 = 490 + 49 = 539, land all seven shots and you have a dead A-class, and we didn't even take into account the the sabot round you managed to land at the beginning of the encounter.

Okay I'm gonna stop there... My brain can't take all these numbers. ¦3

The problem is that you're planning on being able to land every single shot as soon as the cooldowns are off on an unhindered A class mech. Unless they're standing still for you, that isn't going to happen. The proposed ability would increase the number of hits you do land, though, which far outstripes the potential extra 75 damage over NINE shots(and there's no way you're going to land 9 shots in 7 seconds regardless).

[Guiotine]

Personally, I like the ballistic barrage ability of the SS. It provides some great burst.

[RudaForce]

It's currently not very difficult to land hits with a Sharpshooter and this ability would make it overkill. It combined with the EMP leaves a completely useless mech, no movement, no attacking.
The reason it's being called god tier and useless is because if they're near cover, this ability is far worse than Balistics Barrage, but out in the open the opposing mech is guaranteed to die.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

The problem is that you're planning on being able to land every single shot as soon as the cooldowns are off on an unhindered A class mech. Unless they're standing still for you, that isn't going to happen. The proposed ability would increase the number of hits you do land, though, which far outstripes the potential extra 75 damage over NINE shots(and there's no way you're going to land 9 shots in 7 seconds regardless).

In CQC there's nowhere to run for neither you nor the opponent. 7 shots landed right there.
You can easily land every shot on something in a 7 second duration if you know when to activate it, none of the added damage get's wasted.

Edited by TwiceDead, December 30 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I love Ballistic Barrage. Helps me get out of some sticky situations.

Also:

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

From what I've seen, a lot of community members are in agreement about the Sharpshooter's Ballistic Barrage ability: It just doesn't fit the role that the SS plays.

I haven't really seen that.
I've seen a few people, but not what I would categorize as "a lot".

[tortuousGoddess]

Guiotine, on December 30 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Personally, I like the ballistic barrage ability of the SS. It provides some great burst.

I really hate it honestly. Landing a slug-sabot-slug combo with it on only grants an abysmal 27 extra damage. Manage to land a second sobat with it on brings it up to only 40 damage, and you have to apply it REALLY well just to get that much. You have practically zero chance of getting more out of it than that. I really want an ability that actually provides some kind of support effect rather than a tiny amount of damage.

RudaForce, on December 30 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

It's currently not very difficult to land hits with a Sharpshooter and this ability would make it overkill. It combined with the EMP leaves a completely useless mech, no movement, no attacking.
The reason it's being called god tier and useless is because if they're near cover, this ability is far worse than Balistics Barrage, but out in the open the opposing mech is guaranteed to die.

EMP is getting reworked anyways, so you should probably hold judgment on that.

The current ability is equally useless if they are near cover. That isn't really a negative. And if you're so out in the open that a SS can hit you enough times to kill you from full health, even with this ability, you're way out of position and will probably die anyways. I've never had a SS kill me from full hp in the way that you're describing. Not even the good ones. This ability isn't strong enough to change that.

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

The problem is that you're planning on being able to land every single shot as soon as the cooldowns are off on an unhindered A class mech. Unless they're standing still for you, that isn't going to happen. The proposed ability would increase the number of hits you do land, though, which far outstripes the potential extra 75 damage over NINE shots(and there's no way you're going to land 9 shots in 7 seconds regardless).

In CQC there's nowhere to run for neither you nor the opponent. 7 shots landed right there.
You can easily land every shot on something in a 7 second duration if you know when to activate it, none of the added damage get's wasted.

That's ridiculous. Have you never tried to CQC against a scout before_ You cannot land 9 shots in 7 seconds on a competent A class mech. It just will not happen.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

That's ridiculous. Have you never tried to CQC against a scout before_ You cannot land 9 shots in 7 seconds on a competent A class mech. It just will not happen.

It's not rediculous, it's easy to hit things in a CQC situation. Killing it faster than it kills you is another question, and scouts do quite a lot more damage than the SS up-close.

I play against one good scout rather frequently, and he is good. The bastard owns me every time, but he doesn't escape without a grave wound. I don't find it difficult to land hits on him in a CQC situation. I do however find it difficult to outdamage/outmaneuver him. More often than not he get's the drop on me as well. But I always manage to land a solid slug and a solid sabot round into his visor.

[tortuousGoddess]

But if you're still ending up dead every single time, the point is still moot. The utility of this ability would give you more options.

[Mewvg]

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

It's not rediculous, it's easy to hit things in a CQC situation. Killing it faster than it kills you is another question, and scouts do quite a lot more damage than the SS up-close.

I play against one good scout rather frequently, and he is good. The bastard owns me every time, but he doesn't escape without a grave wound. I don't find it difficult to land hits on him in a CQC situation. I do however find it difficult to outdamage/outmaneuver him. More often than not he get's the drop on me as well. But I always manage to land a solid slug and a solid sabot round into his visor.

This is why you use a mech for what it was designed to do, the loadout is built for that purpose of sniping. If it was meant for cqc it would look more like a scout.

[TwiceDead]

But it would also make the SS overpowered. I am fine dying to a scout at point-blank, since the SS is specialized for long range. Granted I often find myself running in mid-close range, it still is built for long-range, it's just me using it "Wrong" according to some. That an SS should be able to fight on par with a scout at point blank, which is the scouts hometurf, is outrageous. You can fight a scout in CQC and emerge victorious, but in the end in a CQC encounter the scout has the upper hand in mobility, and damage compared to you, whilst the only disadvantage would be health limitations. The roles would be completely reversed at longer ranges, as scouts only have the ToW, and you can see the ToW from miles away and dodge accordingly. You may not be able to escape it's blast radius, but you will escape a good chunk of damage compared to what the Sabot can do to you.

Moral_ If you see a scout, don't get cocky and try to take it head-on. If you get jumped, you played your cards wrong somewhere or the opponent played his cards good. If you're forced into CQC, expect to lose, but don't give up the fight.

Every mech has their pros and cons, the SS lies in long range, the scout in close range, and they should not be even competitors in the same playing fields.

Mewvg, on December 30 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

This is why you use a mech for what it was designed to do, the loadout is built for that purpose of sniping. If it was meant for cqc it would look more like a scout.

Quiet you! I play how I want!

Edited by TwiceDead, December 30 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[probiner]

Hi I made a topic today about SS and while being a noob about it (just got it today, and up to level 9, but I just play for a week, so I don't know much about the overall game) I'll give my thoughts.

So what is Sharpshooter_ Well, at first sight, looks like it's the sniper of the game. But then it isn't. An it wouldn't be fun to play against a 1-shot kill mecha.
For what it packs I would say it's more of a Designated Marksman. Basically you want to be the third man of a fight and pick enemies as they are distracted with something. So yes, unless your opponents are coming at you from afar, you depend on teammates, to fight with them or buy time so you can land another shot and they don't rush on you with all those explosives and rapid automatic fire to which you can only die.
It preforms fuzzy bunny in CQC, without a shot-range dedicated weapon. It has both weapons dedicated to long range, and this ain't no Battlefield.

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

I say no. Not everyone enjoys being a backseat SS. I enjoy being on the frontlines, dishing out damage and holding my own in a 1 on 1. I don't want to be reliant on my teammates all the time, and the current SS ability really helps out in a CQC situation.

I'll wait for that Sharpshooter versus Bruiser/Berseker in CQC Tutorial
Seriously I wanna see an outcome different than roll over and die against faster and better mechas on CQC in the frontline.

Wish changes for the class overall:
1 - If it's a sniper, I would like that the SS got rid of one of the long range arms, replaced by a Flak or a SMG and got that sniper buffed by either ROF or Damage (as for now, it's worse than TOW on both).
2 - If it's just a support mecha, then give him dedicated tools for it. Ballistic Barrage does nothing if your not a pursuing fast mecha. they just hide and you burn your ability, or in CQC the damage buff doesn't matter anyway against their rapid explosive fire.

I would like a Crippling Ability as one of the common roles of a sharpshooter is to disable threats that need to be disposed from afar: be it an engine or a passanger or a fuel tank. So yes, the target should be affected more by it if people don't want to see damage increase.

Ideas inline:

Crippling Fire:
A - For the next 7 seconds for each hit, your target will lose X mobility for 5 seconds. Where X = (damage done *0.1)%
(2,2% per shot for SA Hawkins, 7,5% per shot with Slug and 13,6 per shot with Sabot).

Shield Break:
C - For the next 7 seconds, for each hit, your target wil recievel X more damage from any incoming fire for 5 seconds. Where X = (damage done *0.05)% (1,1% per shot for SA Hawkins, 3,75% per shot with Slug and 6,8% per shot with Sabot).

Tagging Shot:
B - For the next 7 seconds, for each hit, your target wil show up on the radar for 30 seconds and rockets will home on it more.

Just some ideas. Shield Break coul esily replace the current Balistic Barriage and also provide advantage to teammates

Edited by probiner, December 30 2012 - 02:26 PM.