128 replies to this topic

[tortuousGoddess]

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

But it would also make the SS overpowered. I am fine dying to a scout at point-blank, since the SS is specialized for long range. Granted I often find myself running in mid-close range, it still is built for long-range, it's just me using it "Wrong" according to some. That an SS should be able to fight on par with a scout at point blank, which is the scouts hometurf, is outrageous. You can fight a scout in CQC and emerge victorious, but in the end in a CQC encounter the scout has the upper hand in mobility, and damage compared to you, whilst the only disadvantage would be health limitations. The roles would be completely reversed at longer ranges, as scouts only have the ToW, and you can see the ToW from miles away and dodge accordingly. You may not be able to escape it's blast radius, but you will escape a good chunk of damage compared to what the Sabot can do to you.

Moral_ If you see a scout, don't get cocky and try to take it head-on. If you get jumped, you played your cards wrong somewhere or the opponent played his cards good. If you're forced into CQC, expect to lose, but don't give up the fight.

Every mech has their pros and cons, the SS lies in long range, the scout in close range, and they should not be even competitors in the same playing fields.

Mewvg, on December 30 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

This is why you use a mech for what it was designed to do, the loadout is built for that purpose of sniping. If it was meant for cqc it would look more like a scout.

Quiet you! I play how I want!

Duh, even with this ability you're going to lose CQC to scouts pretty much always. The intent of the ability is to provide stronger supporting fire, not make you dominant in CQC in any way. It's not overpowered just because it's usable in other situations.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks cause the target to be unable to thrust or dodge for 2 seconds.

Alternatively:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks reduce the target's dodge, thrust, and walking speeds by 35% for 2 seconds.

I don't know... I think these are very CQC favoring. A stopped target is a dead target. A slow target is an easy target, soon to be dead. A target that is unable to boost, is basically slow, and hence dead. SS can deal a ton of damage if it's allowed sustained fire, that's exactly what these two abilities do.

[tortuousGoddess]

TwiceDead, on December 30 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks cause the target to be unable to thrust or dodge for 2 seconds.

Alternatively:

Ability: Crippling Assault
Effect: For the next 5 seconds, your attacks reduce the target's dodge, thrust, and walking speeds by 35% for 2 seconds.

I don't know... I think these are very CQC favoring. A stopped target is a dead target. A slow target is an easy target, soon to be dead. A target that is unable to boost, is basically slow, and hence dead. SS can deal a ton of damage if it's allowed sustained fire, that's exactly what these two abilities do.

They can still stagger step or jump and juke one of your shots, I don't know where you're getting the idea that they're stopped. If you miss, the effect will wear off just in time for them to dodge the next shot.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

They can still stagger step or jump and juke one of your shots, I don't know where you're getting the idea that they're stopped. If you miss, the effect will wear off just in time for them to dodge the next shot.

Might just be my point of view on things. I don't find the machines in this game to move very fast to begin with so they're not exactly hard to hit. Nerfing their speed even more is like a death sentence.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Akrium]

Knowing where to aim as the SS is key. I can hit people while moving, end of a dodge, and even hovering. Most of the time I miss it is all my fault for getting jumpy and firing early like an fuzzy bunny.

But over all, it is hard to miss with the SS. In an SS fight the guy who hit first wins... it's sad but true.

[tortuousGoddess]

It's not about setting them up for yourself, it's about setting them up for your team. Not being able to dodge a Sobat is one's own fault.

[TwiceDead]

No, being unable to hit your target with a sabot, THAT'S your own fault. The opponent doesn't really have a say in the matter unless he can anticipate when the SS is going to shoot. Of course he could try randomly dodging, odds are that the SS is waiting for just that and saves his sabot for when he is stuck in animation after dodging.

Setting them up for myself or my team_ Doesn't matter to me. I see it, I shoot it in the face till it's dead. If it's too much, I pull back to fight  another minute.

Edited by TwiceDead, December 30 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[TwiceDead]

fuzzy bunny, doublepost. edit

Know what, I am going to stop replying in this thread. Im not really contributing in any way. My bad.

Edited by TwiceDead, December 30 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Beemann]

TBH if I were Grand Dictator of Hawken Development I'd probably replace all of the abilities
Though my change for the SS would probably not resemble the OP's suggestion in any way
"Press button for better bullets" is silly and doesn't promote enough interesting plays (if it can even be argued that it promotes any true variation)

[probiner]

So what would you change abilities into_

Edited by probiner, December 30 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Sylhiri]

I would rather see something more interesting with the scope rather then bullets as it's long distance weapons define the class, something like an advanced radar system or something like that.

[Guiotine]

I feel like people are trying to change the class into something it is not... and I don't like it. The SS is a long range support, it is not meant to be in CQC. You are supposed to be way in back, helping teammates engaged in combat, turning the tide of a battle from the sidelines, not out in the middle fighting scouts..... but I am sure you know that. I am sure you have extensive knowledge of the class, and a large pool of experience to speak from. The class is already a powerhouse in the right hands, and if it is played in a way befitting the spirit of a true "sharpshooter" or "marksman", amazing results can be had. but you are not questioning the efficiency of the mech from what I have seen. You are questioning the efficiency of its ability. I admit, I do not know the exact numbers behind BB's damage increase, but I do know that against any mech, I see a noticeable difference in my damage, and as I am often picking of mechs that are already in battle, BB has helped save ally's lives, and has helped capture points. As you said, it may be only a 27 point increase, or a 40 point one assuming you land 2 SABOTs. Tell that to an A-class or B-class mech, who has to deal with that extra damage on top of your allies' damage, as well as your own SABOT and slug. It adds up, and it adds up fast. Personally, I think if you want to take away (in the case of an A-class mech) one of the biggest advantages that class has over other mechs in CQC, that would be game breaking for that mech. Yes, thy can stutter step, and still move, but they have to go through the whole process of acceleration, which takes about a second or two to hit top speed. Plenty of time for any mediocre SS to rip them apart with the SABOT. Especially when they have to keep stopping, changing direction, and re-accelerating, or else become predictable in their movements and becoming a target.....which they then become, because they have to accelerate again. Taking away a class's ability to boost is devastating, because that is one of the core mechanics of this game, and taking that away just to help a class in CQC that isn't meant to be in that situation at all just doesn't sit right with me.

[tortuousGoddess]

Guiotine, on December 30 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I feel like people are trying to change the class into something it is not... and I don't like it. The SS is a long range support, it is not meant to be in CQC. You are supposed to be way in back, helping teammates engaged in combat, turning the tide of a battle from the sidelines, not out in the middle fighting scouts..... but I am sure you know that. I am sure you have extensive knowledge of the class, and a large pool of experience to speak from. The class is already a powerhouse in the right hands, and if it is played in a way befitting the spirit of a true "sharpshooter" or "marksman", amazing results can be had. but you are not questioning the efficiency of the mech from what I have seen. You are questioning the efficiency of its ability. I admit, I do not know the exact numbers behind BB's damage increase, but I do know that against any mech, I see a noticeable difference in my damage, and as I am often picking of mechs that are already in battle, BB has helped save ally's lives, and has helped capture points. As you said, it may be only a 27 point increase, or a 40 point one assuming you land 2 SABOTs. Tell that to an A-class or B-class mech, who has to deal with that extra damage on top of your allies' damage, as well as your own SABOT and slug. It adds up, and it adds up fast. Personally, I think if you want to take away (in the case of an A-class mech) one of the biggest advantages that class has over other mechs in CQC, that would be game breaking for that mech. Yes, thy can stutter step, and still move, but they have to go through the whole process of acceleration, which takes about a second or two to hit top speed. Plenty of time for any mediocre SS to rip them apart with the SABOT. Especially when they have to keep stopping, changing direction, and re-accelerating, or else become predictable in their movements and becoming a target.....which they then become, because they have to accelerate again. Taking away a class's ability to boost is devastating, because that is one of the core mechanics of this game, and taking that away just to help a class in CQC that isn't meant to be in that situation at all just doesn't sit right with me.

Again it has nothing to do with CQC. It's about providing better long range support. The difference between having this ability and the current ability is negligible for CQC situations. Yeah, it would be a small bit better usually, but you're still at a strong disadvantage trying to CQC them in the first place. The only reason I even talked about CQC at all was because people claimed it would make SS even worse at it, which is false.

[tortuousGoddess]

If it ends up being too strong in CQC that's an easy fix, just change it to something like:

Effect: For the next 5 seconds, the Sharpshooter's attacks slow the target's thrust, dodge, and walking movement speeds by 5% for every 10 meters away the target is, up to 35% at 70 meters.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, December 30 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Urvanis]

I think it would be pretty cool if their ability was some sort of stabilizer, that makes their unscoped shots more accurate for a short period. Or AP rounds for a short period that penetrate objects.

[probiner]

Guiotine, on December 30 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

(..) and taking that away just to help a class in CQC that isn't meant to be in that situation at all just doesn't sit right with me.

I'll sew that on a flag and show up to those A-classe mechas rushing on me "hey hey wait a minute, this is not how it's supposed to go down... shh.. wait... wait..."   *rolls over and die. You can't be serious when we are talking of a game with maps made of arenas. It's mostly mid to close combat. Long-range is just a niche since there are almost 0 open fields where a sniper in cover can take out a runner.  So yeah, your best chance it's to be the third man of a fight, or having a wall to dance a little.

As for

Quote

It's your fault you don't hit

Must be nice to have run this game with 250 fps on idle and having low ping no seriously I think the same when I shoot my Point-D Vulcan across the map to hit some "If only I could aim better...".
Really don't get why not have one of the weapons buffed (there you can't layer shots) and use an assault or SMC like other mechas... It's simples... Look at Bruiser... All Sharpshooter weapons are for ranged fight. ALL.


But although it could help CQC like tortuousGoddess said, it's not about it. It's about having an ability that is more usefull than 2 seconds, that can splash advantages to allies, unlike any other ability can. As for now all abilities only favour the user. And if it's to be relegated to a Support class and not actually a Sniper, then give it things and rewards to be support and interact more with allies than just the guy that loweres opponents health a little, rolls over and dies.

Cheers

Edited by probiner, December 30 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[Epistrophe]

I personally quite like the active as it is, but that's not my problem with the idea. My main problem is that I think having one's movement slowed or stopped in a game like this is just not fun. I think it can exist within reason, but if they swapped this in and swapped out the grenade stuns people would just complain about being slowed (or unable to boost) and getting gibbed. Also, the more slows and stuns come out and make an impact the more important it would be for other/newer mechs to have them in order to level the playing field. It probably wouldn't be that apocalyptic but I feel like if you want the ss to have a supportive ability why not like, an armor shred_ targets hit by SS take extra damage from projectiles or explosives for 4 seconds, expires 8 seconds. No one is pissed off because they can't move (number one most annoying thing in the game imo, be it from invisible walls, stunlocks or surprise teammates) and you can still make the ss have a supportive ability.

[Mewvg]

the stunlock is a bug, they are fixing it. slow may be useful against class A mechs, but if you slow down class C mechs anymore...

[RedVan]

I didnt read the whole thread, but, the last thing the game needs is something that reduces maneuverability and speed.  It's already borderline slow.

[Karaipantsu]

How about a fuel leak_  Like, during the duration of the Sharp's ability, every hit landed drains x% of the target's fuel.  This would serve both the crippling function (which I really like, but can't think of a way to make it balanced in any way, and it would make the Sharp a freaking god), and changing up the ability enough to be somewhat interesting.  Land enough blows in a row, and you leave your target completely incapable of quick escape and at your mercy.

Would work great in countersniping, as well.  I currently use the SS ability only when I see a target that could easily jet behind cover after I open fire on them in an attempt to land that little extra damage and hopefully finish them off.  Crippling their ability to dodge out of my firing line would make me a happy camper (ha ha, joke).