128 replies to this topic

[dEd101]

Why not have the ability give the ss firing a force based on the damage of the weapon. Like the push from explosives. My first reaction when i got hit by the sabot rifle was wow that hurt, why doesn't it have a kick. i often only notice I've been hit by an ss when my life numbers drop.

In this scenario the sabot would give a significant push but primary fire would have a more minor impact.

Personally I think the damage buff works quite well. In a fight a single shot from a sniper on the other side of the map is enough to completely wreck an a class mech's chances of getting out alive. The buff just makes it hurt a lot more.

For me the ss is more of a support than a killer. It throws the numbers off in a fight and picks off the retreating mechs. Well positioned ss can wreck havoc in an all out fight.

[AsianJoyKiller]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

No, they rely on mobility and high damage rate, killing first. slower mechs rely and armor with moderate damage rate.

This is wrong. With the exception of a Beserker utilizing it's damage increase special ability, A-Class mechs do not have any better damage output than C-Class mechs. In fact, the Scout and Brawler share the same weapons, as do the Infiltrator and Grenadier, which of course means they have the same damage output.

[tortuousGoddess]

ReachH, on January 01 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

TwiceDead, on December 31 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I play how I want. I don't cater to the "one and only" playstyle attitude people seem to have about the SS on these forums. In pubs, it works alright.

You'll figure it out eventually.

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Again it has nothing to do with CQC. It's about providing better long range support. The difference between having this ability and the current ability is negligible for CQC situations. Yeah, it would be a small bit better usually, but you're still at a strong disadvantage trying to CQC them in the first place. The only reason I even talked about CQC at all was because people claimed it would make SS even worse at it, which is false.

(Modest case scenario)Forcing 3 repair with a long range alpha-strike on up to 3 Class-As (with every shot connecting) is pretty good 'long range support'.

Contrast this with your laughable suggestion of giving the SS a 30% snare on hit. A long range, hitscan class who nullifies the single most important damage mitigation mechanic in the game. You really can't blame people for thinking you are a terrible player just based off of this.

My apologies for seeming to force my ideas on you, but sometimes ideas get so preposterous, you just have to step in and say No.

Someone has anger issues. You should sit down and really read what you write sometimes. Afterwords, please make a sincere effort to get over yourself. I've already spoken on the weak numbers the ability grants the SS. I'm not going to bother repeating myself for you again.

[tortuousGoddess]

dEd101, on January 01 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Why not have the ability give the ss firing a force based on the damage of the weapon. Like the push from explosives. My first reaction when i got hit by the sabot rifle was wow that hurt, why doesn't it have a kick. i often only notice I've been hit by an ss when my life numbers drop.

In this scenario the sabot would give a significant push but primary fire would have a more minor impact.

Personally I think the damage buff works quite well. In a fight a single shot from a sniper on the other side of the map is enough to completely wreck an a class mech's chances of getting out alive. The buff just makes it hurt a lot more.

For me the ss is more of a support than a killer. It throws the numbers off in a fight and picks off the retreating mechs. Well positioned ss can wreck havoc in an all out fight.

Physics don't actually work that way. Even a slug as large as a sobat round does not have the physical force to move an object as large and heavy as a mech. The round isn't heavy enough and the force isn't dispersed enough to do it.

[probiner]

tortuousGoddess, on January 01 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Physics don't actually work that way. Even a slug as large as a sobat round does not have the physical force to move an object as large and heavy as a mech. The round isn't heavy enough and the force isn't dispersed enough to do it.

Otherwise the mech shooting it would be flying too

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

No, they rely on mobility and high damage rate, killing first. slower mechs rely and armor with moderate damage rate.

This is wrong. With the exception of a Beserker utilizing it's damage increase special ability, A-Class mechs do not have any better damage output than C-Class mechs. In fact, the Scout and Brawler share the same weapons, as do the Infiltrator and Grenadier, which of course means they have the same damage output.

You are not accounting the map types and the play style. A Brawler stays behind if you run around a corner. A Scout will slide to you. So effectively a scout will always have more output damage in a whole match.

Cheers

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

No, they rely on mobility and high damage rate, killing first. slower mechs rely and armor with moderate damage rate.

This is wrong. With the exception of a Beserker utilizing it's damage increase special ability, A-Class mechs do not have any better damage output than C-Class mechs. In fact, the Scout and Brawler share the same weapons, as do the Infiltrator and Grenadier, which of course means they have the same damage output.

You are not accounting the map types and the play style. A Brawler stays behind if you run around a corner. A Scout will slide to you. So effectively a scout will always have more output damage in a whole match.

Cheers

As arguably one of the best Brawler pilots in game, I seriously disagree with that.
Better mobility does not equal more damage.

You also fail to account for the fact that a Brawler can stay in a fight longer than a Scout could, meaning they can put out damage for longer. You've only focused on what the advantages of the A Classes are, but neglected to factor in the advantages of a C-Class.
Don't tell me that I'm forgetting to account for playstyles (which I sure as hell didn't. I don't make mistakes that big.), especially when you are failing in that regard.

[TwiceDead]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Cripple the fast mechas_ The squishy little ones that absolutely rely on their mobility to stay alive, who are basically fuzzy bunny without being able to move quickly_ YEAH! GOOD IDEA!

No, they rely on mobility

And you basically just agreed with me. Thanks. Stop contradicting yourself.

Edited by TwiceDead, January 01 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[probiner]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

No, they rely on mobility and high damage rate, killing first. slower mechs rely and armor with moderate damage rate.

This is wrong. With the exception of a Beserker utilizing it's damage increase special ability, A-Class mechs do not have any better damage output than C-Class mechs. In fact, the Scout and Brawler share the same weapons, as do the Infiltrator and Grenadier, which of course means they have the same damage output.

You are not accounting the map types and the play style. A Brawler stays behind if you run around a corner. A Scout will slide to you. So effectively a scout will always have more output damage in a whole match.

Cheers

As arguably one of the best Brawler pilots in game, I seriously disagree with that.
Better mobility does not equal more damage.

You also fail to account for the fact that a Brawler can stay in a fight longer than a Scout could, meaning they can put out damage for longer. You've only focused on what the advantages of the A Classes are, but neglected to factor in the advantages of a C-Class.
Don't tell me that I'm forgetting to account for playstyles (which I sure as hell didn't. I don't make mistakes that big.), especially when you are failing in that regard.

But my argument stands. A Scout will deal a bigger ammount of damage first than the Brawler even if it dies and the Brawler survives and eventually deals some more. It relies on killing first and stalking weakend mechs while dogding they're shots. If they're advance fails they either die or slide out on time ( behind cover or friendly lines or alternative routes, repairs and put pressure on again).

And obviously since this is the SS we are talking here it's A vs B that I was thinking mostly. Thought this also touches C class for sure.

Cheers

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[probiner]

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Cripple the fast mechas_ The squishy little ones that absolutely rely on their mobility to stay alive, who are basically fuzzy bunny without being able to move quickly_ YEAH! GOOD IDEA!

No, they rely on mobility

And you basically just agreed with me. Thanks. Stop contradicting yourself.

Ah nice snip you did there.
They rely on mobility and bigger damage output, in means of first strike and picking when to fight.

If you got a Beserker having an Ability to increase it's damage to armor, in which apparently other mechs rely on, why not give slower mechs an ability to attack what Zerk relies to, mobility _

Simples!

Plus a well placed shot is different thant a rain of rockets, so it would be nice to have this crippling abilities if you hit certain spots. But since that will probably complicate hitboxes, just give it as an ability.

Next you know an high power cannon wouldn't kill the pilot and disable the mecha completely with one shot... So why the heck have a mech like this in the first place_

Cheers

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[TwiceDead]

Thank you for stating the obvious. Now where's your point_
Also they don't have a bigger damage output. You're wrong.

You ask why we should take away the only thing keeping A-class mechs alive_
So if this suggestion goes through, I can go ahead and suggest for instance:
A skill that can just remove 50% of the B and C-class mechs armor_
What_ They're basically the same aren't they_ These two suggestions_ Taking away what the other classes rely on_ According to you the B and C-Class rely on armor to stay alive, since you suggest we cut the mobility of the classes that rely on it in HALF, let's just cut the armor in half on the classes that rely on that! BRILLIANT! F------! IDEA!

Do you think a stand-still A-class mech can outdamage and kill a B/C-Class mech that is also stand still both unloading their weaponry at the same time_ I don't think so. I even think the SS wins if we have both standing still unloading at one another. Do you know why A-class mechs live so long_ They hit, they get hit, they run, they repair. You hit an A-class ONCE with the sabot and a slug round, they will take the hint, and get their ass out of the fire, retreat and repair. That's what_ 5-7 seconds out of the battle_ Plus the time it takes to retreat_ C-Class mechs. They get hit, what do they do_ Beats me, I don't play one. I don't think they run at once though, as they are built for sustained combat...Unlike A-class.

[Beemann]

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Thank you for stating the obvious. Now where's your point_
Also they don't have a bigger damage output. You're wrong.

You ask why we should take away the only thing keeping A-class mechs alive_
So if this suggestion goes through, I can go ahead and suggest for instance:
A skill that can just remove 50% of the B and C-class mechs armor_
What_ They're basically the same aren't they_ These two suggestions_ Taking away what the other classes rely on_ According to you the B and C-Class rely on armor to stay alive, since you suggest we cut the mobility of the classes that rely on it in HALF, let's just cut the armor in half on the classes that rely on that! BRILLIANT! F------! IDEA!

Do you think a stand-still A-class mech can outdamage and kill a B/C-Class mech that is also stand still both unloading their weaponry at the same time_ I don't think so. I even think the SS wins if we have both standing still unloading at one another. Do you know why A-class mechs live so long_ They hit, they get hit, they run, they repair. You hit an A-class ONCE with the sabot and a slug round, they will take the hint, and get their ass out of the fire, retreat and repair. That's what_ 5-7 seconds out of the battle_ Plus the time it takes to retreat_ C-Class mechs. They get hit, what do they do_ Beats me, I don't play one. I don't think they run at once though, as they are built for sustained combat...Unlike A-class.

"What is an EMP_" Final answer

[probiner]

gonna hit the bed, I'll hit your eyes more tomorrow.

But I think these "questions" would be more flat on the ground if there where a 1vs1 mode to understand how good or bad a mech can do against another mech type.
My guess would be that A-class mechs would do better since, like I said, they can pick when the fight is on, more often.

Cheers

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[TwiceDead]

Beemann, on January 01 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

"What is an EMP_" Final answer

Uhh... What_ o-o

[dEd101]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

tortuousGoddess, on January 01 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Physics don't actually work that way. Even a slug as large as a sobat round does not have the physical force to move an object as large and heavy as a mech. The round isn't heavy enough and the force isn't dispersed enough to do it.

Otherwise the mech shooting it would be flying too

I'm well aware of the physics involved but what works in movies may as well be applied here.

Anyway it was just a suggestion. My initial reply was going to be to buff the damage but then I remembered how much the beserker owns already with the same ability. The last thing the beserker needs is even more damage output.

[Beemann]

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Beemann, on January 01 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

"What is an EMP_" Final answer

Uhh... What_ o-o

You wanted something that cuts out the health advantage of a C mech. EMP is it
With on weapons with which to threaten space (because C mechs win in a straight damage race) the A mech has all the bases covered against a large, slow target
Basically because a C class can't shoot, their health bonus is worthless, and the damage dealt isn't comparable to the possibility of dealing damage to the A mech, because the A mech's leveraged stat is speed

[TwiceDead]

Beemann, on January 01 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Uhh... What_ o-o

You wanted something that cuts out the health advantage of a C mech. EMP is it
With on weapons with which to threaten space (because C mechs win in a straight damage race) the A mech has all the bases covered against a large, slow target
Basically because a C class can't shoot, their health bonus is worthless, and the damage dealt isn't comparable to the possibility of dealing damage to the A mech, because the A mech's leveraged stat is speed

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[AsianJoyKiller]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

But my argument stands. A Scout will deal a bigger ammount of damage first than the Brawler even if it dies and the Brawler survives and eventually deals some more. It relies on killing first and stalking weakend mechs while dogding they're shots. If they're advance fails they either die or slide out on time ( behind cover or friendly lines or alternative routes, repairs and put pressure on again).

What_
No.
No it doesn't. Not at all.
The most powerful alpha strike combo a Scout could carry is the Flak/TOW which is the exact same loadout that the Brawler carries. That means it has the same damage output of a Brawler.

Like I said before, being more mobile does not mean that they can do more damage. A-Class mech's weapons are just as powerful as the the weapons on both other classes meaning that their initial damage output is no greater than any other mechs.

[lawlking]

I believe the SS should have the ability to hit whatever is on their crosshair while moving (without zooming in)

::EDIT::

Edited by lawlking, January 01 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I believe the SS should have the ability to shoot while moving (without zooming in)

You can shoot while moving...

[lawlking]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I believe the SS should have the ability to shoot while moving (without zooming in)

You can shoot while moving...

I mean have the ability to hit whatever is on the crosshair.