128 replies to this topic

[Mewvg]

Karaipantsu, on December 30 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

How about a fuel leak_  Like, during the duration of the Sharp's ability, every hit landed drains x% of the target's fuel.  This would serve both the crippling function (which I really like, but can't think of a way to make it balanced in any way, and it would make the Sharp a freaking god), and changing up the ability enough to be somewhat interesting.  Land enough blows in a row, and you leave your target completely incapable of quick escape and at your mercy.

Would work great in countersniping, as well.  I currently use the SS ability only when I see a target that could easily jet behind cover after I open fire on them in an attempt to land that little extra damage and hopefully finish them off.  Crippling their ability to dodge out of my firing line would make me a happy camper (ha ha, joke).

Might work, athough still some are going to say is OP or useless, like any gaming arguement.

[Karaipantsu]

Well, yeah, but at least it's different.  

[m3km4n]

Very interesting thread!
But a word of caution, as Ive lately run into teams with high-level high-skill SS on several occations, I think a Crippling Assault abil. would be absolutely devestating for balance.
And would the effect stack_ Say a team with three good SS pumping slugs into you while Berzerkers are running wild and chewing you up, each with Crippling assault.

This is exactly what I experienced in a couple of Missile Assault games recently. The other team had alot of SSs, the number varied, but around 3-4 I think. And high level A-class mechs, probably the most powerfull mech in the game right now when maxed out on mobility.
And if fighting one of those über mobile mehcs isnt hard enough as it is, try doing so when constantly taking high dmg sniper fire.

Now, add the Crippling Assault, and its pretty much game over. That was the game I realized how powerfull the SS is in competent hands. Especially if the other team has one SS to overlook every strategic point, devastating enemy mechs and then send in high speed A-mechs to clean up.

That was a fuzzy bunny hard match...

[tortuousGoddess]

m3km4n, on December 31 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Very interesting thread!
But a word of caution, as Ive lately run into teams with high-level high-skill SS on several occations, I think a Crippling Assault abil. would be absolutely devestating for balance.
And would the effect stack_ Say a team with three good SS pumping slugs into you while Berzerkers are running wild and chewing you up, each with Crippling assault.

This is exactly what I experienced in a couple of Missile Assault games recently. The other team had alot of SSs, the number varied, but around 3-4 I think. And high level A-class mechs, probably the most powerfull mech in the game right now when maxed out on mobility.
And if fighting one of those über mobile mehcs isnt hard enough as it is, try doing so when constantly taking high dmg sniper fire.

Now, add the Crippling Assault, and its pretty much game over. That was the game I realized how powerfull the SS is in competent hands. Especially if the other team has one SS to overlook every strategic point, devastating enemy mechs and then send in high speed A-mechs to clean up.

That was a fuzzy bunny hard match...

Any new item is going to require balance testing, and if necessary, reworking. Just look at the EMP. The major purpose of an open beta is determining what works and what doesn't. I think people are overestimating just how strong a short 35% slow actually is. This ability still isn't nearly as strong of a disable as the EMP is, so I'm not really understanding the unwillingness to even try it.

And the effect absolutely shouldn't stack.

[Karaipantsu]

In a game where movement is life, I don't think it's possible to underestimate the power of even a short slow.

[tortuousGoddess]

Karaipantsu, on December 31 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

In a game where movement is life, I don't think it's possible to underestimate the power of even a short slow.

But there are no slows, so how can you know_

[Karaipantsu]

Well I know that if I find myself in a sudden vacumn, I'm not going enjoy the next few seconds of my life.

[tortuousGoddess]

Karaipantsu, on December 31 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Well I know that if I find myself in a sudden vacumn, I'm not going enjoy the next few seconds of my life.

Nobody enjoys getting killed. The point is moot.

[TwiceDead]

tortuousGoddess, on December 31 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Karaipantsu, on December 31 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

In a game where movement is life, I don't think it's possible to underestimate the power of even a short slow.

But there are no slows, so how can you know_

Wrong. Any explosion currently stuns your mobility for a split second. The Rev-GL is the closest you get to a stunlock in this game, and that is hell and is indeed a bug, but the point remains.

Besides, even if there is no official slowdown, we already know the drawbacks of being slow in this game. If you're slow, you're dead. This is why you don't side-strafe without boost much in this game, the acceleration time takes fuzzy bunny ages (1.5 - 2 seconds), and that's enough of a slowdown to understand the consequences.

For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge that. Why you are so insistent on a slowdown in this game is beyond me, are the targets too hard to hit_ Do they escape too often to you_ Meh.

Edited by TwiceDead, December 31 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[tortuousGoddess]

TwiceDead, on December 31 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

tortuousGoddess, on December 31 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Karaipantsu, on December 31 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

In a game where movement is life, I don't think it's possible to underestimate the power of even a short slow.

But there are no slows, so how can you know_

Wrong. Any explosion currently stuns your mobility for a split second. The Rev-GL is the closest you get to a stunlock in this game, and that is hell and is indeed a bug, but the point remains.

Besides, even if there is no official slowdown, we already know the drawbacks of being slow in this game. If you're slow, you're dead. This is why you don't side-strafe without boost much in this game, the acceleration time takes fuzzy bunny ages (1.5 - 2 seconds), and that's enough of a slowdown to understand the consequences.

For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge that. Why you are so insistent on a slowdown in this game is beyond me, are the targets too hard to hit_ Do they escape too often to you_ Meh.

The Rev bug is a complete stop, which is a far cry from a slowing effect.

[ReachH]

Ballistic Barrage feels good to me. Adds some more flavor to a class that's already heavily reliant on good decision making. I couldn't even begin to list all the scenarios and considerations that go into deciding when and if to use it. Its one of those intuitive things that is refined over many hours of play time, which I like.

Perhaps you should get more comfortable with the ability, instead of using it as a knee-jerk CQB panic button, in a 1v1 you probably would have lost no matter what you were driving. Let's not balance the game around our own deficiencies, which is what you are doing - whether you are aware of this or not.

And on the matter of CQB, the BB ability is not as influential as landing a HE Charge or EMP. It is useful for certain CQBs, but I wouldn't want people to think that a 1v1 is about dps. BB is no longer as necessary as it was in CB3, and currently sits behind:

1. Landing the first volley
2. Landing an item
3. Having enough fuel

I would choose any of these options over having the BB ready. The point is not that it isn't powerful and deep in its own right, but that this CQB-centric train of thought is very short sighted, and speaks of a limited understanding of the game.

[TwiceDead]

ReachH, on December 31 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

1. Landing the first volley
2. Landing an item
3. Having enough fuel

I would choose any of these options over having the BB ready. The point is not that it isn't powerful and deep in its own right, but that this CQB-centric train of thought is very short sighted, and speaks of a limited understanding of the game.

I play how I want. I don't cater to the "one and only" playstyle attitude people seem to have about the SS on these forums. In pubs, it works alright.

[tortuousGoddess]

ReachH, on December 31 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Ballistic Barrage feels good to me. Adds some more flavor to a class that's already heavily reliant on good decision making. I couldn't even begin to list all the scenarios and considerations that go into deciding when and if to use it. Its one of those intuitive things that is refined over many hours of play time, which I like.

Perhaps you should get more comfortable with the ability, instead of using it as a knee-jerk CQB panic button, in a 1v1 you probably would have lost no matter what you were driving. Let's not balance the game around our own deficiencies, which is what you are doing - whether you are aware of this or not.

And on the matter of CQB, the BB ability is not as influential as landing a HE Charge or EMP. It is useful for certain CQBs, but I wouldn't want people to think that a 1v1 is about dps. BB is no longer as necessary as it was in CB3, and currently sits behind:

1. Landing the first volley
2. Landing an item
3. Having enough fuel

I would choose any of these options over having the BB ready. The point is not that it isn't powerful and deep in its own right, but that this CQB-centric train of thought is very short sighted, and speaks of a limited understanding of the game.

For the last time:

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Again it has nothing to do with CQC. It's about providing better long range support. The difference between having this ability and the current ability is negligible for CQC situations. Yeah, it would be a small bit better usually, but you're still at a strong disadvantage trying to CQC them in the first place. The only reason I even talked about CQC at all was because people claimed it would make SS even worse at it, which is false.

[Karaipantsu]

TwiceDead, on December 31 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I play how I want. I don't cater to the "one and only" playstyle attitude people seem to have about the SS on these forums. In pubs, it works alright.

[Gaizokubanou]

Combining this sort of snare with current type of EMP would be hilariously broken.

Actually it wouldn't be all that hilarious.  It would just be broken.

I applaud the attempt for trying to add something new to the sniper, but let's just drop the snare idea because the game is almost too slow as it is and anything that makes us players move slower would detract way more than what would be added through the effect.

[probiner]

You can always take into account the type of mecha and give it a factor. So that heavier mechas don't go full stop. But I for sure would like to cripple fast mechas that think they can come in and come out when ever they want and run away when they don't want to fight anymore.
Then come here saying no to this while rushing on others and using EMP.

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[TwiceDead]

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

You can always take into account the type of mecha and give it a factor. So that heavier mechas don't go full stop. But I for sure would like to cripple fast mechas that think they can come in and come out when ever they want and run away when they don't want to fight anymore.
Then come here saying no to this while rushing on others and using EMP.

Cripple the fast mechas_ The squishy little ones that absolutely rely on their mobility to stay alive, who are basically fuzzy bunny without being able to move quickly_ YEAH! GOOD IDEA!

[ReachH]

TwiceDead, on December 31 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I play how I want. I don't cater to the "one and only" playstyle attitude people seem to have about the SS on these forums. In pubs, it works alright.

You'll figure it out eventually.

tortuousGoddess, on December 30 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Again it has nothing to do with CQC. It's about providing better long range support. The difference between having this ability and the current ability is negligible for CQC situations. Yeah, it would be a small bit better usually, but you're still at a strong disadvantage trying to CQC them in the first place. The only reason I even talked about CQC at all was because people claimed it would make SS even worse at it, which is false.

(Modest case scenario)Forcing 3 repair with a long range alpha-strike on up to 3 Class-As (with every shot connecting) is pretty good 'long range support'.

Contrast this with your laughable suggestion of giving the SS a 30% snare on hit. A long range, hitscan class who nullifies the single most important damage mitigation mechanic in the game. You really can't blame people for thinking you are a terrible player just based off of this.

My apologies for seeming to force my ideas on you, but sometimes ideas get so preposterous, you just have to step in and say No.

[TwiceDead]

ReachH, on January 01 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

TwiceDead, on December 31 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I play how I want. I don't cater to the "one and only" playstyle attitude people seem to have about the SS on these forums. In pubs, it works alright.

You'll figure it out eventually.

Enlighten me.

Otherwise: I agree with the rest you've said.

[probiner]

Well the slow ones rely on them being at distance and hitable to

TwiceDead, on January 01 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

You can always take into account the type of mecha and give it a factor. So that heavier mechas don't go full stop. But I for sure would like to cripple fast mechas that think they can come in and come out when ever they want and run away when they don't want to fight anymore.
Then come here saying no to this while rushing on others and using EMP.

Cripple the fast mechas_ The squishy little ones that absolutely rely on their mobility to stay alive, who are basically fuzzy bunny without being able to move quickly_ YEAH! GOOD IDEA!

No, they rely on mobility and high damage rate, killing first. slower mechs rely and armor with moderate damage rate. But no way they can control the distance from a scout or zerk if they just rush on you sliding from corner to corner. So you can't effectively Zone in this game.

So, the same can be said from the other perspective.

All I see now in game is scouts and zerks rushing in, popping and EMP, blasting, running, deciding when the fight is on or not. Seriously not fun, but hey maps do have a great deal of responsibility.
It's like Tanks playing Call of Duty... I mean..fuzzy bunny.

Edited by probiner, January 01 2013 - 11:03 AM.