128 replies to this topic

[LordofNosgoth]

I've said it before, and I will say it again (hopefully for the very last, damned time):

A Sniper is useless unless he can fulfill his role.
The role of the Sniper (Marksman) is to provide his team with support.
The Sniper (Marksman) provides his team with support by one-shot killing anything in his line of sight, usually from a great range and always from a distance of relative safety and anonymity.

Take the ability to do any of the above away from any sniper/marksman class, and all you've really done is create a situation in which said class is a freebie kill.

[AsianJoyKiller]

LordofNosgoth, on January 01 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Take the ability to do any of the above away from any sniper/marksman class, and all you've really done is create a situation in which said class is a freebie kill.

SS is only a free kill if you suck with it.
And it's entirely possible to make a balanced sniper/sharpshooter/marksman class without relying on dumb mechanics like 1-shot kills.

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I mean have the ability to hit whatever is on the crosshair.

So you want to have full pixel perfect accuracy while unscoped on one of the most powerful hitscan burst damage weapons in the game_
Doesn't sound balanced to me.

[lawlking]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

LordofNosgoth, on January 01 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Take the ability to do any of the above away from any sniper/marksman class, and all you've really done is create a situation in which said class is a freebie kill.

SS is only a free kill if you suck with it.
And it's entirely possible to make a balanced sniper/sharpshooter/marksman class without relying on dumb mechanics like 1-shot kills.

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I mean have the ability to hit whatever is on the crosshair.

So you want to have full pixel perfect accuracy while unscoped on one of the most powerful hitscan burst damage weapons in the game_
Doesn't sound balanced to me.

Yes, I think its still balanced because the heat generated by the slug/sabot is high and at the same time they have a slow-rate of fire (compared to others). Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

[AsianJoyKiller]

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

[lawlking]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

Sabot Rifle doesn't do much damage when not zoomed vs zoomed

[AsianJoyKiller]

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

Sabot Rifle doesn't do much damage when not zoomed vs zoomed

That's not proof.
That's you making a claim without having any evidence to back it up.

For the record, the Sabot does the same damage unscoped as it does scoped.
And if need be, I can prove it.

[xbox690]

Go on! prove it, i know you want to.

[lawlking]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

Sabot Rifle doesn't do much damage when not zoomed vs zoomed

That's not proof.
That's you making a claim without having any evidence to back it up.

For the record, the Sabot does the same damage unscoped as it does scoped.
And if need be, I can prove it.

http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Sabot_Rifle
"Press Middle Mouse to zoom; this increases damage and precision"

[AsianJoyKiller]

Hmmm. Looks like I'm wrong.
I need to test this damage difference, because I don't recall it being so large as to make much of a difference.

Anybody have an unleveled SS they can help test this with_

[Karaipantsu]

You should be able to see the differences in damage between zoomed and unzoomed in the same proportions regardless of level.  I think the reduced damage while unzoomed is from the tooltip, though, and I believe it was that way in the past.

Edited by Karaipantsu, January 01 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Beemann]

The base difference is like 24 damage or something. Not enough of a drop to warrant pinpoint accuracy
I wouldn't be opposed to the old system of "stand still momentarily for pinpoint unscoped accuracy". It's better than flat out making everything unscoped random

[lawlking]

Karaipantsu, on January 01 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

You should be able to see the differences in damage between zoomed and unzoomed in the same proportions regardless of level.  I think the reduced damage while unzoomed is from the tooltip, though, and I believe it was that way in the past.

The level 3 Sabot rifle increases unzoomed damage by +6%

[Mewvg]

If you are close enough to your target that using the Sabot unscoped is better than using the scope, you are too close. It's not made for cqc.

It's like the difference between shooting a sniper rifle from the hip or using the scope (although some sniper rifles have iron sights below the scope).

[Culex]

Slightly digressing from this topic (the special ability), but I'd like to able to have the same precision/accuracy when scoped-in while moving or hovering as I do when I stand still scoped-in.

This really limits the amount of kill shots the SS can have as well as making them vulnerable by having to sit still. SS's should be able to have this same precision since they already have to scope and cut off the rest of their vision/radar plus compensate for the time spent doing this, so the mech should be able to freely move and have scope up without standing still for an incoming TOW missile/grenade. Just my thoughts.

Edited by Culex, January 01 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

The level 3 Sabot rifle increases unzoomed damage by +6%

Oh yeah.  Well, that's pretty much the answer, anyway.  Now it's just worrying about the numbers.  If you got a Lvl 3 Sabot, you take 6% off the unzoomed damage, and BAM, science happened.

Edited by Karaipantsu, January 01 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[TwiceDead]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

So you want to have full pixel perfect accuracy while unscoped on one of the most powerful hitscan burst damage weapons in the game_
Doesn't sound balanced to me.

Nothing really changes if you're good enough to quickscope every time you prepare a shot with the sabot and you're a decent CQ-Combatant.

Other than it becoming easier... Hmmm... Yeah that could pose a problem.

So does anybody know yet if the turn-speed is decreased as well while zooming in_ I get that impression.

[ReachH]

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

Sabot Rifle doesn't do much damage when not zoomed vs zoomed

That's not proof.
That's you making a claim without having any evidence to back it up.

For the record, the Sabot does the same damage unscoped as it does scoped.
And if need be, I can prove it.

http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Sabot_Rifle
"Press Middle Mouse to zoom; this increases damage and precision"

Didn't know this, thought you were talking about the 5% dmg bonus to unzoomed at whatever level it was. If this effect exists in the game and is not just an outdated tooltip, then it is really really small.

And I'd like to add that the slug is accurate while moving if you know where to lead with. The HE Charge can also be cooked while moving (slightly related). Only the sabot requires a brief release of WASD, and even then the zero-ing in is very fast, I think it may even be faster than the cross hairs resetting from their 'vertical moving displacement' (Sorry for the pseudo science, I don't know how else to describe it).

Edited by ReachH, January 02 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

ReachH, on January 02 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

lawlking, on January 01 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Also, if you are not zoomed-in then the damage done is reduced.

Your proof_

Sabot Rifle doesn't do much damage when not zoomed vs zoomed

That's not proof.
That's you making a claim without having any evidence to back it up.

For the record, the Sabot does the same damage unscoped as it does scoped.
And if need be, I can prove it.

http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Sabot_Rifle
"Press Middle Mouse to zoom; this increases damage and precision"

Didn't know this, thought you were talking about the 5% dmg bonus to unzoomed at whatever level it was. If this effect exists in the game and is not just an outdated tooltip, then it is really really small.

h0B0 tested it.
It tested legit.

[probiner]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 01 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

probiner, on January 01 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

But my argument stands. A Scout will deal a bigger ammount of damage first than the Brawler even if it dies and the Brawler survives and eventually deals some more. It relies on killing first and stalking weakend mechs while dogding they're shots. If they're advance fails they either die or slide out on time ( behind cover or friendly lines or alternative routes, repairs and put pressure on again).

What_
No.
No it doesn't. Not at all.
The most powerful alpha strike combo a Scout could carry is the Flak/TOW which is the exact same loadout that the Brawler carries. That means it has the same damage output of a Brawler.

Like I said before, being more mobile does not mean that they can do more damage. A-Class mech's weapons are just as powerful as the the weapons on both other classes meaning that their initial damage output is no greater than any other mechs.

You keep failing to understand that a Brawler can't stalk a Scout but the inverse can happen. Hence Scout having more alpha strikes...

To picture it better.
Put a Brawler and a Scout in Square Room with a thick square column (enough to conceal 5 mech behind) in the middle. How's gonna get more hits and kills_

Edited by probiner, January 02 2013 - 12:36 AM.

[ReachH]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 02 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

h0B0 tested it.
It tested legit.

The 5% unzoomed, or the [font=play, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"Press Middle Mouse to zoom; this increases damage and precision"_[/font]