113 replies to this topic

[SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!]

Hello everyone.  I've been the one in charge of figuring out what exactly is needed to support Triplewide (this is the term I'm using for triple monitor support).  I've finished my findings, and I want to help explain to you guys why this isn't such a simple fix (as many, myself included, thought).  Hopefully no one yells at me for doing this.  

This is what you currently see (1920x1080).  Notice how everything looks correct, but there is the big nasty black spaces to the sides.  Gross.


This is what players can easily achieve in the game right now.  (6030x1080)  Obviously unplayable.  Cockpit AND UI visor are both using the incorrect fov limitation.  We need to limit by the Y axis, not the X.  


This is the result of some very easy to implement changes from our star programmer (<3 Kreuzer).  Fov is fixed!  You get to see more of the battlefield, HOORAY!  However, a problem presents Our cockpits were originally designed with only traditional widescreen monitors in mind.  Honestly, an understandable oversight, as Triplewide isn't exactly super popular.  You can see how the cockpit and Windshield both clip through the screen.  You'll notice some areas I highlighted in yellow.  At first glance this actually seems playable, but we'll get to that....


We render our UI on top of a visor, so we can do cool things with it, but there is some major math problems.  The UI Visor isn't exactly wide enough to support the width of the screen.  In fact its barely big enough to support regular widescreen.  This results in some very odd artifacts, such as the UI indicators for mechs being wrong.  They gain accuracy the closer you get to the center of the screen though.  This does make it nigh impossible to tell if a mech on your peripheral is friend or foe.  I've played in more than a few playtests using this mode, and while it is playable, you quickly notice the severe disadvantage you are at.  






So where does this leave us_  Unfortunately, not very far.  Redoing all three cockpits isn't something we were planning on doing any time soon for various, good reasons.  Additionally, the UI work required is relatively significant, and those guys are constantly busy with other things as well.  

TL;DR:  Triplewide support is so close, yet so far.  To correctly fix the problem, requires time on people who are working on other higher priority things. Rest assured we want to correctly address this issue, but the eta is still very much unknown.  

I really hope this helps at least explain why this fix isn't coming nearly as quickly as anyone would hope.

[Rei]

Thank you for the update! I don't run 3 monitor setups but it is great to see a status report from you guys

edit: I am now running a 3 monitor setup

Edited by Rei, December 15 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[h0B0]

Rei, on February 11 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the update! I don't run 3 monitor setups but it is great to see a status report from you guys

^

[JonnyO2]

Really appreciate the update! I'm a graphics programmer myself and I have to admit, I too thought this would have been an easy fix. This is a great example of how something that sounds easy has "tendrils" that can't easily be fixed.

Edited by JonnyO2, February 11 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[SS396]

Personally, I think you should not be able to get target data/info on a mech that is seen out of the peripheral of the HUD, but I guess thats how I think of things since I'm familiar with a HUD in aircraft (F-15E).

Even with a system like IHADSS which is used on the AH-64D longbow (aka helmet tracking system), its a 40° by 30° field of view.  So the pilot has to pivot his head to target any item and put that target inside of that narrow field of view to get data on it.

This video shows the gunner activating a lock on the heli (you will see it box the target)
http://www.youtube.c...D17fWYE8#t=265s

Edited by SS396, February 12 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!]

SS396, on February 12 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Personally, I think you should not be able to get target data/info on a mech that is seen out of the peripheral of the HUD, but I guess thats how I think of things since I'm familiar with a HUD in aircraft (F-15E).

Even with a system like IHADSS which is used on the AH-64D longbow (aka helmet tracking system), its a 40° by 30° field of view.  So the pilot has to pivot his head to target any item and put that target inside of that narrow field of view to get data on it.

This video shows the gunner activating a lock on the heli (you will see it box the target)
http://www.youtube.c...D17fWYE8#t=265s

This has been one possible solution.  Some people are concerned about the advantage Triple Wide users would have.

[Neverm0re]

[HWK]SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!, on February 12 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

SS396, on February 12 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Personally, I think you should not be able to get target data/info on a mech that is seen out of the peripheral of the HUD, but I guess thats how I think of things since I'm familiar with a HUD in aircraft (F-15E).

Even with a system like IHADSS which is used on the AH-64D longbow (aka helmet tracking system), its a 40° by 30° field of view.  So the pilot has to pivot his head to target any item and put that target inside of that narrow field of view to get data on it.

This video shows the gunner activating a lock on the heli (you will see it box the target)
http://www.youtube.c...D17fWYE8#t=265s

This has been one possible solution.  Some people are concerned about the advantage Triple Wide users would have.

Someone who has put a lot of money into a rig that is capable of running on max settings at 60 fps or more already has an advantage over someone who has to run with absolutely minimal settings and still only gets 15-20 fps, so there's that I suppose. It isn't like machine driven advantages don't already exist.

*This coming from the guy who has to play at 10-15 fps at best.*

Edited by Neverm0re, February 12 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Frenotx]

I kind of like the idea of keeping the visor as it is now- Just wide enough to fill a 90 degree FoV in a wide screen format. Any view to the left and right of that visor would simply not have the targeting data show up- it would be unassisted view only.

[ReachH]

Doesn't affect me, but its nice to see updates and pry into the lives of ADH!

[Conquistador]

Is triple wide something you intend to implement in support of the oculus rift_ I would imagine turning your head from side to side with the vr visor would require a similar fov requirement to the triple wide monitor.

[SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!]

Conquistador, on February 12 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Is triple wide something you intend to implement in support of the oculus rift_ I would imagine turning your head from side to side with the vr visor would require a similar fov requirement to the triple wide monitor.

Very astute.  Occulus Rift will require us to redo the cockpits as well.  This is the primary reason we don't want to redo the cockpits now.  We want to make sure we only have to redo them once.  Remember any time spent redoing things is time not spent adding new things.  

Neverm0re, on February 12 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Someone who has put a lot of money into a rig that is capable of running on max settings at 60 fps or more already has an advantage over someone who has to run with absolutely minimal settings and still only gets 15-20 fps, so there's that I suppose. It isn't like machine driven advantages don't already exist.

*This coming from the guy who has to play at 10-15 fps at best.*

This was my argument exactly, although there is a strong diminishing returns effect once you hit the 40fps mark.

[ShatteredSteel]

Greatly appreciate the update on the surround modifications. I know i'll be keeping an eye on this thread as the game progresses

[Whiskey123]

I have a 5760 x 1200 monitor array (triple   24" Dell  U2412m  1920 x 1200) and I had sent in a bug report about the problems with the UI when trying to use that res.    I'm glad to see some explanation of the issues in this recent thread...and I'm playing at 1920 x 1200 until this gets more developer time.    Monitor prices for 23" and 24" panels are so darned reasonable now that I believe HAWKEN probably has a more significant number of tri-screen capable users than they had ever considered before....  

Put triple screens on a few artist, developer & programmer desks and watch this issue become more important on HAWKEN.   All the hard detailed work of the graphic artists could be seen so much better on tri-screens, but we definitely do need to see the radar screen and cockpit gauges/readouts to play this excellent FPS.    

[Grafix]

Whiskey123, on February 21 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Monitor prices for 23" and 24" panels are so darned reasonable now that I believe HAWKEN probably has a more significant number of tri-screen capable users than they had ever considered before....

I don't see the price of the monitors being the contributing factor at this point.  Yes the monitors are cheaper now but good performance graphics cards x2 will put a small dent in people's pockets but then again it is tax season so some people are getting income tax returns to use.

[machmanx]

It makes me happy when a staff member actually takes the time to explain why something doesn't work so that those players don't feel frustrated anymore.  Big companies should learn from this.

[Msm903]

It is good that it was actually looked at. However as was stated before anything outside the hud should not have targeting info. In Battlefield 3 for example all targeting info is stuck at the on the center screen because of how they designed the hud, thus using tripplewide the gamer knows someone is in their peripheral vision but they don't exactly know if it is friend or foe until they pivot and actually look at them. I would prefer to play the game the way you have tested it now than to play it limited to a 1920X1080 resolution. If that could have been pushed out to the production environment, those without 3 monitors would not be affected, while those with would more or less welcome it. Well Minus the clipping issues. So I guess some work would need to be done to make it at least look good.

Edited by Msm903, February 22 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[StoneFire]

Grafix, on February 21 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Whiskey123, on February 21 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Monitor prices for 23" and 24" panels are so darned reasonable now that I believe HAWKEN probably has a more significant number of tri-screen capable users than they had ever considered before....

I don't see the price of the monitors being the contributing factor at this point.  Yes the monitors are cheaper now but good performance graphics cards x2 will put a small dent in people's pockets but then again it is tax season so some people are getting income tax returns to use.

btw, higher end nvidia cards support 3 monitors with 1 card, I have a ega 660 ti sc single card running and have surround capability ...

also kudos to the devs for addressing this as to why

[FighterHayabusa]

I have a triple screen setup, and I bought a RIFT dev kit.  You guys are doing great work.

Pic:

Edited by FighterHayabusa, March 04 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Admiral2145]

please add triple screen support soon!!! I have 2 680 ftw+'s 4 gigs that are just dying to use there full power... 1920x1080p is ok but I have a killer rig... lots of people now a days have sli so 5760x1080p is a must!

[ShatteredSteel]

Time to incentivise, surround support in the next patch and I'll buy 4752 meteor credits.