127 replies to this topic

[Kerc_Kersa]

Alrighty, so I have been seeing a lot of "SS are OP" or "SS powershot is too strong nerf it" posts lately, so I decided to set everyone straight. The SS is not OP, the ability however, seems to need tweaking/changing. I will list every mechs total damage that it can do in 3 seconds. (3 seconds was chosen due to the SS max level Powershot)

*Please note, that these damage stats do not take travel time into account, they simply show what each mech is able to do in 3 seconds.*

All data used in this list was provided by the Hawken Wiki page: http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

Class A mechs:

Berserker
: Submachine Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 446 (With Ballistic Barrage Ability 512.9)
: Assault Rifle and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 423.2 (With Ballistic Barrage Ability 486.68)
: Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 480.2 (With Ballistic Barrage Ability 552.23)

Infiltrator
: Assault Rifle and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 388.2
: Heat Cannon and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 370.2
: EOC Repeater and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 360

Scout
: Mini Flak Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 567.8
: Flak Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 479.6
: Heat Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 405.2

Reaper
: AM-SAR and KE-Sabot, total damage in 3 seconds: 234.6 (With scoped 370)
: Hawkins-RPR and KE-Sabot, total damage in 3 seconds: 320.7 (With scoped 330.7)
: Slug Rifle and KE-Sabot, total damage in 3 seconds: 287.1 (With scoped 297.1)

Class B mechs:

Assault
: Submachine Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 446
: Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 480.2
: Assault Rifle and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 423.2

Sharpshooter
: SA Hawkins and Sabot Rifle, total damage in 3 seconds: 346.3 (Scoped 380.3) (With min (2 seconds) Power Shot Ability 484.4 (Scoped 535.4)) (With max (3 seconds) Power Shot Ability 519.45 (Scoped 570.45))
: Slug Rifle and Sabot Rifle, total damage in 3 seconds: 333.1 (Scoped 367.1) (With min (2 seconds) Power Shot Ability 466.8 (Scoped 517.8)) (With max (3 seconds) Power Shot Ability 499.65 (Scoped 550.65))
: AM-SAR and Sabot Rifle, total damage in 3 seconds: 280.6 (Scoped 440) (With min (2 seconds) Power Shot Ability 396.8 (Scoped 615)) (With max (3 seconds) Power Shot Ability 420.9 (Scoped 660))

Bruiser
: Point-D Vulcan and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 503.2
: Submachine Cannon and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 469
: Assault Rifle and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 446.2

CR-T Recruit
: Assault Rifle and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 423.2
: Submachine Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 446
: Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 480.2

Class C mechs:

Brawler
: Flak Cannon and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 479.6
: SA Hawkins and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 395.3
: Point-D Vulcan and TOW Rocket, total damage in 3 seconds: 480.2

Rocketeer
: Seeker and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 442.9
: EOC Repeater and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 418
: Heat Cannon and Hellfire Missiles, total damage in 3 seconds: 428.2

Grenadier
: REV-GL and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 411.6
: Heat Cannon and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 370.2
: Point-D Vulcan and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 445.2

Vanguard
: Submachine Cannon and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 411
: Mini Flak Cannon and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 532.8
: Point-D Vulcan and Grenade Launcher, total damage in 3 seconds: 445.2

(All mechs are at level 1 with no upgrades except for the max SS ability data)

As you can see, the SS is by no means OP. There are lots of other mechs that do more damage than a SS (In raw damage w/o abilities) and most have a higher ROF than the SS. The current ability does indeed make it the most powerful mech (for 3 seconds) with the AM-SAR and I do agree that the ability needs to be worked on.

Yes, I know that the SS uses hitscan weapons, but regardless of what some people say, these weapons DO require you to aim. If you miss then there is a whole second between your shots giving your target time to dodge/attack you. Every other mech in the game (except for the Reaper) has some kind of "soft-aim" weapon, meaning that you can miss your target and still damage it. Also, nearly every single mech can out-damage the SS (even when it is scoped) in CQC. So, there is no reason to nerf the SS in damage/ROF and anyone who says otherwise is just a crying noob.

Here is some suggestions that I have found/thought of to change the SS current ability to:

Power Shot: (Nerfed) Does the same effect as current Power Shot, but it makes the cool-down 2 minutes.

Power Reroute: Does the same effect as current Power Shot, but it temporarily disables your radar.

Power Scan: Temporarily lets you see enemy mechs red hitboxes through walls.

Power Snipe: Increases damage based on how far away your target is. (This would make the SS ability exclusively sniping)

Silent Shot: Temporarily removes your radar shooting signature, shooting sounds, and the direction indicator from where they are hit. (This would also promote sniping from being able to snipe w/o giving away your position)

Piercing Shot: Temporarily makes your shots travel through multiple mechs. (So you could multi-kill with a single shot)

Tracer Shot: Marks enemy mechs with the red hitbox when you shoot them. (This way, you could mark a mech and make it easy for your team to finish him off.) (The effect would last a reasonable time "10-20 seconds_" Maybe longer if that doesn't seem long enough)

(Please vote on the poll so that the devs might change the SS's current ability to something better balanced)

So, now that you can see that the SS is NOT OP and for those of you that still think it is, I have this for you:

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 23 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[SilentJacket]

I can't vote "no" on the first opinion without picking one in the second poll

[Kerc_Kersa]

Fixed sorry about that (first post/poll )

[The_Eldritch_Abomination]

Sharpshooters are hardly OP, I agree. Quite easy to counteract at close range , and is they are alone (most of the time), they make easy targets... except if the ENTIRE enemy team is comprised of Sharpshooters of course, but that's a different matter.

But point is, Sharpshooters are perfectly balanced. What your really should 'nerf' however, are the pilots...

[Kerc_Kersa]

The_Eldritch_Abomination, on February 20 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Sharpshooters are hardly OP, I agree. Quite easy to counteract at close range , and is they are alone (most of the time), they make easy targets... except if the ENTIRE enemy team is comprised of Sharpshooters of course, but that's a different matter.

But point is, Sharpshooters are perfectly balanced. What your really should 'nerf' however, are the pilots...

I believe an entire team of any one mech would be very hard to beat as well, not just the SS.

I too believe that SS are balanced, I made this topic to prove that and I added the poll for those players that think otherwise. I just have seen too many topics on nerfing the SS and not enough on what to actually DO to "balance" it as they say.

*Edit* Fixed the poll again... Please revote if your vote is now gone >.<

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 20 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[kubikiri]

what is up with the title of this thread_

[RudaForce]

Dunno why, but I can't vote. It redirects me to a page saying I need to vote on every question, depsite there only being one. Whatever. +1 to Power Snipe.

[Kerc_Kersa]

Somehow when I added the picture on the bottom, it changed the name of the topic to that and I didn't see it before I posted so... I can't find a way to rename the topic. Maybe a staff member could_

[Kerc_Kersa]

RudaForce, on February 20 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Dunno why, but I can't vote. It redirects me to a page saying I need to vote on every question, depsite there only being one. Whatever. +1 to Power Snipe.

Ok... I fixed it for the third and final time... I am tired and need to go to bed. Sorry for the problems >.< please try again and let me know if it is still not working

[Kerc_Kersa]

Ok, now the poll and topic's name are fixed (no idea who/what fixed the name though XD).

Also, one more thing that I forgot to add is that there is NO WAY to 1 shot kill with anything in-game. Not even the max lvl SS w/ the AM-SAR (even though it could do 660 damage in one ability activate, that is assuming that your target will stay perfectly still for 3 seconds and you need to fire 10 rounds to get that much damage).

[AsianJoyKiller]

HawkEyE_, on February 21 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Ok, now the poll and topic's name are fixed (no idea who/what fixed the name though XD).

Also, one more thing that I forgot to add is that there is NO WAY to 1 shot kill with anything in-game. Not even the max lvl SS w/ the AM-SAR (even though it could do 660 damage in one ability activate, that is assuming that your target will stay perfectly still for 3 seconds and you need to fire 10 rounds to get that much damage).

Slug/Sabot/Det/Powershot
If you're an A-Class, you can kiss your ass goodbye if you get caught in that. I'm not sure on the h0B0's testing, but I think stock B-Classes may get gibbed too.

[Kerc_Kersa]

That is still 4 shots. Most people argue the point saying that the SS can kill them with 1 shot. Almost any mech can 1 hit kill an A class with a det combo in 3 seconds. Some could even do it to a class B.

Point is, the SS is balanced and this topic is to prove that. The poll is just for the people who want something done to "balance" it.

[HugeGuts]

The Sharpshooter's base damage with a slug rifle is powerful enough. I vote to replace any damage boosting ability with a wall hacking ability.

[AsianJoyKiller]

HawkEyE_, on February 21 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

That is still 4 shots. Most people argue the point saying that the SS can kill them with 1 shot. Almost any mech can 1 hit kill an A class with a det combo in 3 seconds. Some could even do it to a class B.

Point is, the SS is balanced and this topic is to prove that. The poll is just for the people who want something done to "balance" it.

As far as I've seen on the forum, people spend half the time referring to 1 salvo as 1-shotting. It's not particularly clear.
And for the record, Slug/Sabot/Det/Power Shot doesn't take 3 seconds. That's instadeath. Even without the Det, you can take down an A in 2 seconds.

[Gree]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 21 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 21 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Ok, now the poll and topic's name are fixed (no idea who/what fixed the name though XD).

Also, one more thing that I forgot to add is that there is NO WAY to 1 shot kill with anything in-game. Not even the max lvl SS w/ the AM-SAR (even though it could do 660 damage in one ability activate, that is assuming that your target will stay perfectly still for 3 seconds and you need to fire 10 rounds to get that much damage).

Slug/Sabot/Det/Powershot
If you're an A-Class, you can kiss your ass goodbye if you get caught in that. I'm not sure on the h0B0's testing, but I think stock B-Classes may get gibbed too.

Nope. That's not one-shot.
That's a uber combo. Shame on all people who use it.

[Kerc_Kersa]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 21 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 21 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

That is still 4 shots. Most people argue the point saying that the SS can kill them with 1 shot. Almost any mech can 1 hit kill an A class with a det combo in 3 seconds. Some could even do it to a class B.

Point is, the SS is balanced and this topic is to prove that. The poll is just for the people who want something done to "balance" it.

As far as I've seen on the forum, people spend half the time referring to 1 salvo as 1-shotting. It's not particularly clear.
And for the record, Slug/Sabot/Det/Power Shot doesn't take 3 seconds. That's instadeath. Even without the Det, you can take down an A in 2 seconds.

True, that is an instadeath, but that is with that item, not the SS. Also w/o the Det, you can't kill a class A mech in 2 seconds. Unless I am mistaken in how many slug rounds you can fire in 2 seconds, the max you could do is ~483. That is if you fired 1 Sabot and 2 slugs w/ ability.

Btw, prior to the update that changed the SS ability tp Power Shot, you could technically do 457.9 damage in 1 second w/ H.E. Charge and old ability. That isn't much more of a step up with the new ability and Det, since you were so close to 1 salvo killing a class A mech in the first place...

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 21 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Gree]

Silent shot and Power snipe are your best ability ideas.

[Kerc_Kersa]

Silent Shot for the most part, was suggested by my brother (I added a little bit to it) and the Power Snipe has been suggested by multiple people before (I just gave it a name).

Personally, I like the Piercing Shot best though XD

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 21 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Gree]

HawkEyE_, on February 21 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Silent Shot for the most part, was suggested by my brother (I added a little bit to it) and the Power Snipe has been suggested by multiple people before (I just gave it a name).

Personally, I like the Piercing Shot best though XD

It would be nice but, mechs are made of pure metal, so I think it would be hard to anything get through it. Silent shot and Power snipe would be the ideal SS's abilities.

[RudaForce]

Power Snipe, as long as it caps at the damage that Power Shot does right now.