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A Serious Case for an (OPTIONAL) third person view


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#101 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 05 2013 - 04:01 PM

View PostSylhiri, on September 05 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

I have no idea why your getting so angry, lol.

Your acting like i'm saying "no" when I'm saying "not now".
Because "you guys" keep repeating the same old stories again and again, no matter in which way the arguments and suggestions change. It just doesnt fit.


@ALL. If you want to get a glimpse of what hawken already can easily deliver in 3rdpv:
Start hawken
Start introduction level
Play till drone/mech fight
F5 to open console
"viewclass pawn" + <enter> to cycle 3rdpv on the drones/mechs

The additional camera transformation is mostly fixed. It rotates with the mech. Your mouse input is still on your avatar. (have fun ;) )
Sometimes the mechs turn their back against walls, no occlusion occurs as far as i have seen, the cameratransformation gets correctly adjusted. No jittery movements either. Looks as nice as you would expect from UDK.

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ScreenShot00117_small.jpg

Edited by f_error, September 05 2013 - 04:39 PM.


#102 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 05 2013 - 06:16 PM

View Postf_error, on September 05 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Because "you guys" keep repeating the same old stories again and again, no matter in which way the arguments and suggestions change. It just doesnt fit.
Did the po widdle f_error get mad because not everyone agweed wit him_

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#103 N0stalgia

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Posted September 05 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on September 05 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

View Postf_error, on September 05 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Because "you guys" keep repeating the same old stories again and again, no matter in which way the arguments and suggestions change. It just doesnt fit.
Did the po widdle f_error get mad because not everyone agweed wit him_

This is why we don't get along AJK. That is a deliberate insult for no reason whatsoever other than to put somebody down.
Call me Nos.

#104 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 05 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostN0stalgia, on September 05 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on September 05 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

View Postf_error, on September 05 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Because "you guys" keep repeating the same old stories again and again, no matter in which way the arguments and suggestions change. It just doesnt fit.
Did the po widdle f_error get mad because not everyone agweed wit him_

This is why we don't get along AJK. That is a deliberate insult for no reason whatsoever other than to put somebody down.
Most of the time it's you thinking I'm insulting somebody when I'm not.

And there is a reason. He's been taking little snipes at me all over the forums for the past few days. I'm fed up with that nonsense. Just treating him with the same respect he's been showing me.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#105 Rahh_Vende

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Posted September 05 2013 - 09:35 PM

It's kinda funny how people blame AJK for steamrolling other people's opinions(not saying he doesn't), but do it themselves when not getting pleasant responses.
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#106 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 06 2013 - 04:31 AM

No, thats not funny. Funny is, how everybody jumps on this stupid meta discussion like a nerdgamer on an E3 cosplay girl. Just because he and me trade some tows, doesnt mean this thread has no topic.

Rahh_Vende: Where have i been "steamrolling" anything_ People talk about how much effort it would be to implement 3rdpv in hawken. I reference a video from youtube. They say its not comparable and needs a lot more work. So I start the game, switch 3rdpv to "on" and post some screens. If thats steamrolling, i'm guilty and fine with it.

@AJK you wont get more or less respect from me than any other unrelated person here. The internet is a tiny part of real life, hawken is a tiny part of the internet, and YOU are are tiny part of hawken. You can probably calculate your importance to me. If this is really about "respect" for you, then check your priorities. (but i am sure it was just one of your generic answers. Jumping left and right all time, like with the autocharge weapons ...)

#107 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 06 2013 - 08:22 AM

And there you go with the lying again.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#108 Beefsweat

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Posted September 06 2013 - 08:36 AM

why is this thread still alive
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#109 Silverfire

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Posted September 06 2013 - 08:41 AM

This thread is still alive because people keep necro-ing it and refusing to admit that 3rd POV is objectively better than 1st POV. And other arguments that don't really work, and the "cool factor" and such and such.

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#110 N0stalgia

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Posted September 06 2013 - 09:08 AM

I remember the first trailer for this game.... It began with the camera panning through and flying through a few of the maps. Music was building. Then, it showed mechs begin to trample street lights in third person. It was awesome. Then it showed the mechs boosting. Then flying. All in third person. Then it showed third person mech combat from an omniscient point of view. Then BAM! HAWKEN logo. I thought it was a cool trailer, but was curious what gameplay might be like. Then BAM! A few split feconds showing the first person gameplay sent chills down my spine and I knew this would be so totally incomprehensibly rad.

I would probably puke if if I saw this game lose the feeling of being a mech pilot. If it lost that immersion. I'm so fuzzy bunny glad this is a strictly first person game.

Now please, lets put this thread to rest. B)
Call me Nos.

#111 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 06 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostSilverfire, on September 06 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

This thread is still alive because people keep necro-ing it and refusing to admit that 3rd POV is objectively better than 1st POV. And other arguments that don't really work, and the "cool factor" and such and such.
You did not follow this discussion. Its not only admitted but also partly desired. And it has been reflected in many suggestions from the very beginning of the topics related to 3rdpv. But instead of dealing with the real arguments and ideas, people like you bring the same story again and again. Ironically that story was not appropriate from the beginning. Everybody who says "i would like to have 3rdpv" knows that you can "look around corners" with it. They all knew it long before they wrote a post about it. So its quite "not-smart" to expect, that the extensive repetition of that fact will make them fall in line and suddenly decide 3rdpv is bad. If so, they would not have asked in the first place.

#112 Silverfire

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Posted September 06 2013 - 06:23 PM

Do you recognize our "stories" as "real" arguments and evidence, or do you dismiss it because it is so "overused"_ An old, "overused" argument isn't always false; it can be *gasp* true, despite its age! A new perspective can be wrong (pun intended).

What if people actually bought into our statements because they actually believe it once we've convinced them genuinely_ Does "falling into line" mean they just give up and submit to an overwhelming no_ Your word choice there makes it sound like you think it is a crime to agree with the big "story."

And I've followed this discussion. I've been around longer than you according to your registration date. Don't say where I've been and what I've followed because you clearly don't know that.

I'm near done with this thread, it needs to die instead of being resurrected over and over again because of people arguing over the same points twisted in a thousand different ways.

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#113 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 06 2013 - 09:54 PM

Hawken is a First Person Shooter.
Go to the main page and look at the title of it.

"Free-to-Play Mech FPS"

Fancy that.

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

View Postwat, on March 02 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

- stuff -

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Quote

HAWKEN is a... mech-based first-person shooter

Quote

mech-based first-person shooter

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first-person shooter

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first-person shooter

Quote

first-person shooter

Quote

FIRST PERSON SHOOTER

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#114 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 07 2013 - 03:23 AM

Yeah, and it has an unlock tree, it has pilot-progression, it has mech-progression, but its not an RPG though.
You are more inflexible than i can find a nice word for, just because you want to be. And we all know you would turn the story upside down, just to support another claim in a different topic. Dont expect me to give anything about anything you write AJK, even when its true facts. And certainly dont expect me to drop that topic, just because YOU want that.


Silverfire, your arguments are real. They just dont apply to what people say about 3rdpv. One of the first directions of discussion evolved around "make different queues so that no one who prefers 1stpv will end up in a match where he is forced to use 3rdpv as a mandatory advantage".
The logical progression on that idea is "hawken does not have enough players to support that" and has been made by the very same people who had that idea, even before someone tried to tell them their point of view is wrong.
There are many other directions and they all have evolved so that the two arguments
"it is a clear advantage" and "it is a FPS" dont match as a reaction in the slightest way.

3rdpv would be great
>> no, its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS
how about letting people choose_
>> NO! its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!! And you are stupid!
well, other games have it too
>> NO. IT SUCKS and those games are fuzzy bunny. its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!! + screenshot of the description
how about combining it with negative effects like nooblight etc_
>> You STUPID F***ERS! its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!
we could have special gamemodes for 3rdpv. co-op for example
>> if you wanna play co-op get the f*** out. Hakwn is an ONLINE(!) (screenshot) FPS. And 3rdpv is a clear advantage!!
why is it such an advantage, i cant even see the scout dodging and throwing tows in front of me, because my mech occludes it_
>> You dumb SH*T obviously never played a game before. 3rdpv is always better, because you can look around corners. Hawken is a FPS!!
...


I hope you are all just doing this to kill some time and rant a bit. Because if you really want people to stop liking and wanting 3rdpv, you have to change your reactions and arguments radically. This way you will not make people give up on their ideas. Instead you will make them want it more and more, because what you bring up against it, is laughable.
The reason why hawken does not have 3rdpv is, because the devs dont want it. Thats all.

#115 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 07 2013 - 03:47 AM

When in doubt, lie about your opponents arguments.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#116 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 07 2013 - 03:59 AM

I dont doubt anything. I am very convinced thanks to people like you. As i said, if you want to change my/our opinions, you are completely on the wrong track. Think about how adamant your own point of view is. Ask yourself what could changed YOUR opinion. Probably nothing. So why should you have any idea how to change mine_

And aside from that, you just delivered the perfect proof of how this topic works, right before my post. Thank you!

#117 Beefsweat

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Posted September 07 2013 - 08:24 AM

View Postf_error, on September 07 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

3rdpv would be great
>> no, its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS
how about letting people choose_
>> NO! its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!! And you are stupid!
well, other games have it too
>> NO. IT SUCKS and those games are fuzzy bunny. its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!! + screenshot of the description
how about combining it with negative effects like nooblight etc_
>> You STUPID F***ERS! its a clear advantage and hawken is a FPS!
we could have special gamemodes for 3rdpv. co-op for example
>> if you wanna play co-op get the f*** out. Hakwn is an ONLINE(!) (screenshot) FPS. And 3rdpv is a clear advantage!!
why is it such an advantage, i cant even see the scout dodging and throwing tows in front of me, because my mech occludes it_
>> You dumb SH*T obviously never played a game before. 3rdpv is always better, because you can look around corners. Hawken is a FPS!!

do you really expect anybody to take you seriously when you write stuff like this_
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#118 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 07 2013 - 09:53 AM

I dont expect anything from anybody. I believe there is a general misconception about this topic. The people on the "3rdpv is sh_t" side have no influence on its theoretical implementation or whatever. I say this to be honest, i dont care about your opinions at all. I do care about your arguments! I neither want to change your opinions, nor do i want any of you to accept that i am "right". All this discussion is merely like a test to my/our opinion that 3rdpv is a valid idea and not inherently broken. And so far you are all doing a very good job at carving this opinion deeper and deeper in stone.

Additionally it is a place where people, who are interested in 3rdpv get together and talk about it. I would actually be quite happy, if we could have at least one single thread, were the usual suspects would not show up and harass "us". So you might wanna rethink your position about who annoys whom.
So again, being taken seriously from you or others that follow the usual pattern, is of no interest to me. I'd prefer you would just say "he is stupid and doesnt know anything" and leave me/us alone. (We are attacked anyway, so why should we mind_) But we all know that you can't do that.

Aside from all that, if you have anything to work with, that is significantly different from my "summary", feel encouraged to bring it to the table.

Edited by f_error, September 07 2013 - 09:54 AM.


#119 Sylhiri

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Posted September 07 2013 - 09:59 AM

I still have yet to see a benefit to splitting up the community to support two perspective modes. I don't think the "Third Person View is so awesome, lets have it" touched on that one in depth yet.

If you want people to only agree with you or stop bringing up the same valid points you can always make a blog or a voice chat server and kick all those people out. If you can provide a list of what we can being up, that would be most helpful.

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#120 Guest_f_error_*

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Posted September 07 2013 - 02:50 PM

I just wrote that i do NOT care about people agreeing with me. Of course it would still be nicer not to get the same, wrong attacks again and again. But actually i dont care.
The point "hawken is a fps <screenshot>" never was valid. You dont see me writing "The unreal engine is a fps engine and has 3rdpv as a default feature already", or "Unreal and Quake had 3rdpv but no RPG elements in their competitive installmenst", or anything like that.
The point "it will be a mandatory advantage" is invalid for the scenario of letting players chose between matches with and without 3rdpv. The argument that hawken might not have enough players is valid and has been made by e.g. myself multiple times.
Still the question remains, if it has to split the community or if it would just give people another way to spend their time with a game that develops very slowly. It also raises the question why people should be forced to stick with 1stpv, just to ensure filled servers, if they prefer 3rdpv. (under the assumption there was a working/fun 3rdpv mode)
Aside from that, the "advantage" is still in question. Hawken is quite different from MWO. The infights with fast movement and dodging are not automatically easy to play in 3rdpv. Personally i would weight the benefit of seeing your enemies tow instead of looking around a corner as more important. But thats just me. There were many other suggestions, like removing radar and hud info in 3rdpv. At some point down this line 3rdpv would become a real disadvantage actually.

But as I said, why would i want to have this nasty discussion with people who dont like the idea and bring screenshots from the games description_ For the love of god, stay with your opinion. I would only try to change yours, if you were hawkens lead designer and i was sure my wish was more important than your plans.
This groundhogday fight is the uninteresting part of the 3rdpv topic. The interesting part is, when someone says e.g "hey, we could do it for co-op play against the bots".

As for the "wow effect" its something subjective. I am in the process of cutting together some 3rdpv footage from matches and hope to upload it soon. But it will probably not tell you anything new. If its just not your thing, then your opinion is not likely to change. And why should it.

Edited by f_error, September 07 2013 - 02:51 PM.





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