148 replies to this topic

[Silverfire]

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

Are you seriously suggesting placing COSMETICS before balance and adherence to the fact that Hawken is FIRST PERSON SHOOTER_

My reaction is your name: WAT

EDIT:
And you can't tell me that it isn't a real advantage. Something that useful does not end up being "optional".

http://youtu.be/_5nFa5ObxMg

If you bring it in tight enough to be useless, it's just going to be ugly.

Hang on a minute...mechwarrior online said throughout developement that it would be first person only and low and behold just recently they changed there mind and you can go third person if you wish,
but it does NOT give you an advantage all you can see really is your mech and as much of the landscape as first person.

At the end of the day if it brings in an extra few thousand players to game the devs will do it, but just as an option.

It's all about personal prefference, it's all up to you.

If you would even bother to read the entire thread, your "points" have already been refuted.  And 3rd person view is objectively advantageous to 1st person.  Read the fuzzy bunny thread, this is seriously getting me on edge that people don't realize this.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Silverfire, on September 04 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

Are you seriously suggesting placing COSMETICS before balance and adherence to the fact that Hawken is FIRST PERSON SHOOTER_

My reaction is your name: WAT

EDIT:
And you can't tell me that it isn't a real advantage. Something that useful does not end up being "optional".

http://youtu.be/_5nFa5ObxMg

If you bring it in tight enough to be useless, it's just going to be ugly.

Hang on a minute...mechwarrior online said throughout developement that it would be first person only and low and behold just recently they changed there mind and you can go third person if you wish,
but it does NOT give you an advantage all you can see really is your mech and as much of the landscape as first person.

At the end of the day if it brings in an extra few thousand players to game the devs will do it, but just as an option.

It's all about personal prefference, it's all up to you.

If you would even bother to read the entire thread, your "points" have already been refuted.  And 3rd person view is objectively advantageous to 1st person.  Read the fuzzy bunny thread, this is seriously getting me on edge that people don't realize this.

And now you know why I have a Google doc full of rants ready for copy/paste.

[Teljaxx]

After having recently played Battledrome again, I got an idea that may be a possible third person view implementation.

One of the pieces of equipment you can buy for your HERCs are camera probes. Normally they float above and behind your HERC, and you can switch to viewing yourself from their perspective. The more expensive ones can also be remote controlled, so you can place them around the arena to help you find your opponent. And the most expensive one can also be used as a remote controlled bomb. You can also shoot down your opponent's probes to deprive them of their extra viewpoints.

Something similar to this could be added to Hawken as an item or consumable. It could be a small destroyable camera drone that floats closely behind your mech for a short time, and each rank would last longer than the previous, at the cost of more slots and longer cooldown.

It may still give too much of an advantage this way, and make other items obsolete. But at least this way it would have costs associated with it, instead of simply being a menu option.

[Starclear]

Silverfire, on September 04 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

Are you seriously suggesting placing COSMETICS before balance and adherence to the fact that Hawken is FIRST PERSON SHOOTER_

My reaction is your name: WAT

EDIT:
And you can't tell me that it isn't a real advantage. Something that useful does not end up being "optional".

http://youtu.be/_5nFa5ObxMg

If you bring it in tight enough to be useless, it's just going to be ugly.

Hang on a minute...mechwarrior online said throughout developement that it would be first person only and low and behold just recently they changed there mind and you can go third person if you wish,
but it does NOT give you an advantage all you can see really is your mech and as much of the landscape as first person.

At the end of the day if it brings in an extra few thousand players to game the devs will do it, but just as an option.

It's all about personal prefference, it's all up to you.

If you would even bother to read the entire thread, your "points" have already been refuted.  And 3rd person view is objectively advantageous to 1st person.  Read the fuzzy bunny thread, this is seriously getting me on edge that people don't realize this.

Have you played MWO recently__ you get no advantage what so ever in third person view.
, if done right.
Don't get me wrong i prefer First person view, at the end of the day Hawken is a buisiness and if they can bring in more players they will
and if you don't like third person view then don't use it...your choice.

Edited by Starclear, September 04 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Have you played MWO recently__ you get no advantage what so ever in third person view. Coz it's all about seeing your mech.
Don't get me wrong i prefer First person view, at the end of the day Hawken is a buisiness and if they can bring in more players they will
and if you don't like third person view then don't use it...your choice.

Except it definitely does give an advantage. Being outside of the cockpit in MWO allows you to see things you normally wouldn't, and that's because that is an inherent advantage to 3rd person.
And the "if you don't like it don't use it" comment is a terrible argument. If you don't use it, then your putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Please, for God's sake, read the thread already. This has already been covered.

[Xionos]

If you've ever played a shooter where you can switch between third and first person view, you'd know 3rd person has a distinct advantage for situational awareness.

For first person, not being able to know EXACTLY where your character is in space is a crippling disadvantage. You can switch between first person and third person in Firefall. Search up "Firefall PvP" on youtube, how many screencaps do you see BEHIND the character_ Almost all of them... and any screen where you see them in first person, they change to third person throughout the fight. At least Firefall has PvE, where it's still an advantage mind you, but the NPC's don't weigh it against you.

Optional third person is not optional for PvP.

EDIT: Also, you have a button you can third person in Hawken right now. Press G. It gives you some of the advantages of third person, looking around a corner, but comes with a tradeoff.

Edited by Xionos, September 04 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[FenixStryk]

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Have you played MWO recently_ You get no advantage whatsoever in third person view.

Oh, are you sure_ No advantage whatsoever_

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'll take your word for it.

Edited by FenixStryk, September 05 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Exeon]

FenixStryk, on September 05 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Starclear, on September 04 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Have you played MWO recently_ You get no advantage whatsoever in third person view.

Oh, are you sure_ No advantage whatsoever_

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'll take your word for it.

Can we all just stop responding to this thread now and let it RIP in peace_

Edited by Exeon, September 05 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Sylhiri]

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Nope, this will keep going.
Let it be an advantage. Hawken wont survive without attracting enough players, so that split queues for pure 1st person and mixed or 3rd person matches would not be a problem anymore.
At that point your arguments change from "i dont want it, because it affects me in a negative way" to
"i dont want you to have it because ..." yeah, because why actually_

Are you... arguing with yourself..._

[Sylhiri]

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Why are you so repressive against an idea, that as a feature would not even effect your side of the game at all_

Because you have to look past the "wow, that's a great idea" and look what it actually effects. Unknown amount of players that may or may not join from adding in third person view, how many of those players would actually be paying players, is that amount worth the cost of the coding, balancing, UI updates, bug fixing, server maintenance, etc. while splitting the community_ It would effect my side, unintentionally, due to longer patches, separation of the community (competitive Hawken is already really hard to get going as it is) and possibly higher cost of MC items to be able to afford to keep third person mode working.

With a staff of near 30, they would NEED to hire more people just for this mode and salaries are costly. If such a feature ever did happen, it would be way down the road when the player base was a lot higher and they have the income to support it, but even then other things take more priorities like private servers.

Edited by Sylhiri, September 05 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[FenixStryk]

Exeon, on September 05 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Can we all just stop responding to this thread now and let it RIP in peace_

Threads never die; they just become latent, waiting to break out once more.

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Why are you so repressive against an idea, that as a feature would not even effect your side of the game at all_

I'm fairly sure AJK and others have covered this several times over, but I'll humor you. This one's on me.

If you think 3PV wouldn't influence "our side of the game," you aren't paying attention. Separate queues divide the player base, making it harder for both sides to find a game. Coincidentally, this is exactly why MWO changed their position and merged 3PV/FFP queues: there weren't enough players on either side, so they went back on their word (again) and put everyone in the same bucket.

If 3PV is added, it is not a choice. If you want to win, you have to use it. If you want to find a game, you have to fight people that use it. The moment it is added, everyone involved will be using 3PV whether they wanted it or not. By adding 3PV, Adhesive would be turning their back on their initial player base to appeal to a wider audience -- something that, at least for PGI, has proven to be dangerously self-destructive.

Segregation based on perspective when we are already dividing based on MMR and (on September 10th) Pilot Rank will massively increase player churn; there won't be enough people to play with, so people will walk away. It's not worth wasting development time for something a plurality doesn't want or need especially when it will hurt the game in the long term.

Let 3PV go.

[Sylhiri]

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Sylhiri i thought you were one of the sane guys. (at least more than me) But this speech, is really bs. OF COURSE the devs have to value all that. They have to do it all the time, with nerfing this weapon or changing the hud or whatever.

Changing weapon values  and minor hud adjustments are not the same as adjusting most of the game for a different view.

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

And many people, that keep asking for 3rdpv is a good base to start evaluating. You basically say, the devs would have to keep doing their job. So_ How about YOU GUYS stop trying to do their job_

Forums are not a good place to get data on what the entire community wants, even then what the community wants may not be good for the game or the creators vision on Hawken. Yes, the vision of Hawken. What they've been saying this whole time, wanting players to experience the game in the mech cockpit just like they would driving one. They put so much into trying to achieve this focus that going the opposite direction seems kind of pointless.

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Aside from that, 3rdpv IS already implemented. I dont mean the repair view, i mean a functional 3rdpv while playing. Houruck has posted videos of that, and it can be found on youtube.

If your talking about spectator mode then its just as bare bones as repair view, I've been in it many times myself. It's just a floating camera that you can toggle to stick to a mech, spectator mode even has it's own bugs and problems. 3rd Person View would take so much development to be worth straying away from their original design. I just don't see this as a direction they want to go for now.

Edited by Sylhiri, September 05 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

f_error, on September 05 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Maybe when his classes start ...

I'm two weeks in, with multiple projects in my queue already.

Classes don't stop me.
They just slow me down.

[Sylhiri]

I have no idea why your getting so angry, lol.

Your acting like i'm saying "no" when I'm saying "not now".

[hkbrus]

+1 to no 3rd person. keep it FPS

[VitalEvergreen1]

The whole point to the game was to be a first-person shooter.