215 replies to this topic

[Alastor_Crow]

I remember the days when the MG-Turret was actually a good item to have. Now I'm forced to get the detonator for all my mechs -- not always equipped though.

[Goyo]

Alastor_Crow, on March 26 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

I remember the days when the MG-Turret was actually a good item to have. Now I'm forced to get the detonator for all my mechs -- not always equipped though.

True enough.. the devs are making coscoious decisions of power shifts in this game.  Do you think there is any coincidence macine gun turrent still shows as "popular item" as people arerapigand pillaging with detonator.

Next patch,,, detonator will show as popular item after it has been nerfed to HE charge status.

[TheVulong]

Get rid of EOC, Detonator, Powershot - problem solved.

[Barsu4ara]

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Get rid of EOC, Detonator, Powershot - problem solved.

[TheVulong]

Barsu4ara, on March 27 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Get rid of EOC, Detonator, Powershot - problem solved.

[Goyo]

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

Barsu4ara, on March 27 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Get rid of EOC, Detonator, Powershot - problem solved.

Turn all hitscan into projectiles with major muzzel flash and projectiles that have bullet drop.

Leave the EOC mine ability speed and dmg as it is.  Negate the direct damage ability the EOC currently has.  In fact loose all direct damage of the EOC and make it simply a mine layer with one means of damage.  Mines!

I love the game play element of the EOC.  Being able to corral a player by laying mines on both sides is fun. The amount of damage done is extreme.  There must be some happy medium between current mine laying ability and the MONSTER direct damage that the current EOC does.

The fix might be that EOC mines could do slightly less than current and have the damage be the same if detonated by proximity or by direct hit.


My wish is that EOC looses some of its damage because it is a mine launcher that seems to have no arc or bullet drop so it becomes a very strong direct damage weapon.

~Edited

Edited by Goyo, March 27 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[xXHadronCutterXx]

I don't think any primary should do more than 120 damage. As for secondaries, not higher than 180. Just because some weapons fire slow doesn't mean they should do so much damage (Slug, Bolt, EOC, I'm looking at you). The Detonator's damage should be 150 and without manual detonation. Remove Powershot and give us something more functional than just a meer Damage Boost. Just a couple of changes in variables could improve this game so much.

[Funnydeath1]

If everybody uses more mg/rocket turret, everything's gonna be better. Ninja turrets ftw!

[TheVulong]

Quote

If everybody uses more mg/rocket turret, everything's gonna be better. Ninja turrets ftw!

We need a cloaking sniper turret. MUHAHAHAH!

Edited by TheVulong, March 27 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[xXHadronCutterXx]

Funnydeath1, on March 27 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

If everybody uses more mg/rocket turret, everything's gonna be better. Ninja turrets ftw!

I do that and belive me, they hardly help when you come across a Blitzin' EOC Raider with a ninja Det. Or getting downed by something you didn't see far away because it's ability just went out of cooldown.

[Demanufacturer]

Goyo, on March 26 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

The quick kill time due to weapon imbalance, hitscan, and detonator shennanigans makes Hawken no fun.

This is not a rainbow six or realistic combat americas army game with quick kill times.  We are in mechs for christ sake.  The ability to alpha strike to kill mechs in one volley is ludicrous.  The longer kill time FPS I once loved is gone in this current iteration.

I do not enjoy Hawken combat.  Hopefully next changes are more enjoyable.

Issues that need balancing in order of brokenness:  All Hitscan, Detonator, EOC, all Raider weapons, the fact that A mechs repair and are back in battle in a fraction of the time as any other class(they can repair faster and get back to battle faster after death), and all sustained weapons are sub-par compared to burst damage weapons.

Edit:  Very talented and skilled players have the ability to one volley A and B class mechs.  I do not mean to diminish anything these very talented and skilled players can do.  I just want to point out that in a mech game one volley kills should not exist.  Longer time to kill battles puts everyone on a more equal footing and makes people die because of their own mistakes.  That is the sort of game I hope Hawken returns to.

Out of interest, how old are you_

[burns1124]

Can't say I agree with most of OP's many points.

EOC can't be used in a direct fire situation (aka shooting the person trying to kill you) is ridiculous.  While I do think that the damage from a complete salvo of full charged pucks hitting a target needs to be toned down SLIGHTLY your idea posted above is, well, inelegant.  Rewarding window lickers that can't aim and instead just spam the walls/floors of an area with mines (that don't last much more than 10 seconds_ Correct me if I am wrong but pucks do not stay deployed forever, they will time out and explode on their own) is rather silly.  Tactical placement of stationary mines should be an option, not a requirement.

Raiders:  If you can't beat one, let alone most of the raiders that play, you are engaging in a poor location, and are most likely not working well with your team.  There are very few people crafty enough to make full use of the EOC/MIRV/Det alpha and hit with full damage, and it carries a signifigant risk/reward.  (It's not hard to dodge this alpha, unless you are caught completely by surprise, and that's the killed pilot's fault, NOT ADH.)  I do believe that the Detonator was originally designed with solely the Reaper in mind, and to an extreme less extent, the SS.  If the Det could maintain it's current form only for the Reaper, I'd support it being rebalanced.  

It's not going to work that way tho, it will be nerfed into the ground, and it will be a wasted 3800+ hp, and everyone will go back to using turrets.  This is also why I just keep using turrets.

Nerfing Hitscan is the silliest thing I've heard.  I'm not even going to justify this with an alternative suggestion.

I'd support some of the things Waftycrank has proposed.  The dance needs to return, speed should be increased (scaled to suit weight class), Armor increased (same), some lower damage (I think your numbers are a bit too low, and would lead to utter C CLass dominance), as well as the mechs special abilities being much less effective (Except Brusiers imo, I swear that still doesn't do jack or fuzzy bunny).

I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath, realize this game is still in BETA and that things are going to change wildly.  Making sound, calm suggestions backed by logic, and factual evidence, instead of threads saying things like "HWK isn't fun anymore" because you jumped into a higher rating game and got face rolled by someone/team.

Obviously a raider/SS/Infil team trolled you, no offense Goyo, but you sound like you are a dedicated C Class user, who has been on the receiving end of some tough games, because they all say the same thing.

Personally I think the game is still really fun when you play with the right people.

Edited by burns1124, March 27 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[ReachH]

If they want to keep all this alpha strike garbage, they're gonna need to give us more fuel and mobility. Right now its a fast paced game, with hamstrung player characters. Time to go back to HEAT Scout/Reaper/SS and play conservative :/

[Taw_Archangel]

Goyo, on March 26 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

The quick kill time due to weapon imbalance, hitscan, and detonator shennanigans makes Hawken no fun.

This is not a rainbow six or realistic combat americas army game with quick kill times.  We are in mechs for christ sake.  The ability to alpha strike to kill mechs in one volley is ludicrous.  The longer kill time FPS I once loved is gone in this current iteration.

I do not enjoy Hawken combat.  Hopefully next changes are more enjoyable.

Issues that need balancing in order of brokenness:  All Hitscan, Detonator, EOC, all Raider weapons, the fact that A mechs repair and are back in battle in a fraction of the time as any other class(they can repair faster and get back to battle faster after death), and all sustained weapons are sub-par compared to burst damage weapons.

Edit:  Very talented and skilled players have the ability to one volley A and B class mechs.  I do not mean to diminish anything these very talented and skilled players can do.  I just want to point out that in a mech game one volley kills should not exist.  Longer time to kill battles puts everyone on a more equal footing and makes people die because of their own mistakes.  That is the sort of game I hope Hawken returns to.

A classes repair faster because they have smaller health pools... I think things in need of balancing are EoC, SS, Det, MIRV. Balancing as in nerfs. A buff could be given to the Reaper

[Relkin]

Speed increase!  Now that's something I can get behind   It's a bit silly that these things are so frighteningly slow and yet made of paper :/

ofc I increasing armor or decreasing weapon dmg would be satisfying alternative.

[Gookywun]

Great post! 1+.

[RedVan]

Goyo, on March 27 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

Barsu4ara, on March 27 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

TheVulong, on March 27 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Get rid of EOC, Detonator, Powershot - problem solved.

I'll expound on that...

Turn all hitscan into projectiles with major Muze flashes.  Give them snipers no hidden fire and make them lead targets.

Leave the EOC mine ability speed and dmg as it is.  Negate the direct damage ability the EOC currently has.  In fact loose all direct damage of the EOC and make it simply a mine layer with  one means of damage.  Mines!

I love the game play element of the EOC.  Being able to corral a player by laying mines on both sides is fun. The ammount of damage done is extreme.  There must be some happy medium between current mine laying ability which I hope chooos to define th EOC by that. Instead of the MONSTER direct damage that the current EOC does.

What if you turen the EOC into a mine layer and the cirect hits punted_

Do current real life mine layers scorebonus points for direct hits on deployment_

No.

Because thier job is to deploy mines in a certain location.

My wish is that EOC looses 75 percent of its direct damage ability.. because you people choose to have that fker shoot at hitscan drop off with slightly less delay than hitscan (for fkn mines).

Balance issues my friends....

So, you want to nerf the damage on the skilled aspect of the EOC, but keep the unskilled aspect of EOC damage the same_  Sounds like epic balancing to me.

[ShadowWarg]

Relkin, on March 27 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Speed increase!  Now that's something I can get behind   It's a bit silly that these things are so frighteningly slow and yet made of paper :/

ofc I increasing armor or decreasing weapon dmg would be satisfying alternative.

I would prefer this; https://community.pl...vement-options/ over buffing the speed.

waftycrank, on March 27 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Game is fun.  But fragile type of fun.  Much like the mechs.  Not much resilience.

I miss the dance.  I miss non-transitory sustain weapons.  Someone lost sight of what made Hawken work.

Advocate global speed increase.  (Proportionately more for Heaviest to Lightest.)  Global +10-20% health per class.  (Proportionately more for Heaviest to Lightest.)  Primary hard cap burst limit of 120 or 90 DPS.  (Burst == Low DPS.  Sustain == High DPS.)  Secondary hard cap burst limit of 180 or 120 DPS.  Item hard cap burst limit of 100 or 60 DPS.  No ability affect modifier greater than +25%.  (Speed.  Damage.  RoF.  Resistance.  Etc.)  Outliers should be converted or killed off.

Possibility of PTR servers_  One in each region.

+1 for this

Edited by ShadowWarg, March 27 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Mimetic]

Only read the first few posts, so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone else already said.
I have played a scout, a recruit and a sharpshooter extensively. Scouts are easily the most fragile mech, but I don't feel like I die too quickly. I'm a fast, light mech who shouldn't get hit. If I do get hit, I deserve to die quickly.   There's a reason why you have dodge capabilities. The point of the game is to react to attacks, either dodging them with a dash or evading them by breaking line of sight. If you're getting hit, you deserve to die (Unless you're a C-Mech. They're made to take damage and they take it well). Learn to evade the damage instead of complaining how much of it there is.

On the other side of the coin, a lot of people complain how overpowered the Slug/Sabot combo is, and as a sharpshooter player, I call bull.
First, our targets are pretty far away, so any movement they make pulls them out of our crosshairs very easily. This makes it difficult to hit things unless they are walking right at you (Which is why we camp corridors) or standing still. As a player going up against a sharpshooter YOU SHOULD HAVE THE SENSE NOT TO DO THESE TWO THINGS.
Second, it actually takes a significant amount of shots to kill another mech with the slug/sabot combo, typically 3 or 4 for an A mech, 5 or 6 for a B and a ton for a C. The fire rate on the slug rifle is somewhere around once per second, and much longer for the sabot. That means you if you had full health, you have AT LEAST 3 seconds to move! Why aren't you moving_! A simple dodge would take you completely out of our line of sight.
Third, we are almost completely useless in close combat. If you run up on a sharpshooter, unless you are already significantly low on life, he's dead. The angle of both our weapons makes it very, very difficult to hit something in near us.

So, if you've never played a sharpshooter, then you don't know what you're talking about. Play one. You'll find out that you need to plan where you'll be standing. You have to find people playing in a dumb manner (standing still) or be a good shot to hit moving players. You have to constantly zoom in and out to check radar (can't see it zoomed in) to make sure someone isn't going to run up on you. You overheat a lot. You're slow as all hell. You start with a terrible utility item (hologram). Take away the decent damage from the weapons and sharpshooters are worthless.
I honestly think that sharpshooters doing so well is more about the opposing players just focusing on "SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT!" instead of thinking about where they are, who can see them, and communicating with their team. Use some actual tactics and team play (if you're in a team game) and sharpshooters are taken down pretty easily.