66 replies to this topic

[Beemann]

OdinTheWise, on May 20 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Beemann, on May 20 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Umbre, on May 20 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I have already found misleading information.

The lack of actual damage/heating/RoF values is disappointing. It has been stated that getting us the numbers would be "time consuming" and "complicated", so here's my suggestion:

Let the community provide you with the data. Some of us (including myself) spend a lot of time testing the game and figuring out all of the values and statistics.

Game devs release a guide for the game, include mech numbers.
Person compains about what they didn't do without care for anything that was done, implies devs are incompentent at getting stats for their own game.

Sorry Ash, but if you're going to get credit for doing something, it needs to be done right
The weapon stats and the mech speeds are demonstrably incorrect, and they still refuse to post actual numbers that people have had access to for months in what is meant to be a teaching tool for Hawken

You arnt happy unless it is done your way are you_

Sorry that I'm not satisfied with Adhesive posting misinformation on their own site, and about their own game

[AsianJoyKiller]

OdinTheWise, on May 20 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

You arnt happy unless it is done your way are you_

Today I learned it's stupid to be unhappy when a guide puts forth WRONG information.

[Scapes]

This is the first set of additions to our Game Guide, there will definitely be more. We want to add game modes, maps, internals, achievements, and customizations to name a few features not yet represented.

The community-run HAWKEN wiki has done an excellent job of monitoring in-game values during the game's beta. We do plan on releasing absolute values on our official website when HAWKEN gets closer to full release.

That said, if you've found an error in what we've published, please bring it to our attention. We're rather quick about fixing them!

[Ashfire908]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

OdinTheWise, on May 20 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

You arnt happy unless it is done your way are you_

Today I learned it's stupid to be unhappy when a guide puts forth WRONG information.

TIL critique includes saying information is wrong but not saying what is wrong in the information.

I'm sorry but all the posts I've read say the info is misleading but fail to say what part of the information is wrong. You can't say that a category of information is wrong, say what SPECIFICALLY is wrong.

[Ashfire908]

Scapes, on May 20 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

The community-run HAWKEN wiki has done an excellent job of monitoring in-game values during the game's beta.

The wiki can't take the credit for it really, I just updated it finally. The various testing doing by clans and individuals, and the spreadsheets (eg SK/AJK/H0b0's stats sheet) have done a better job.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I'm sorry but all the posts I've read say the info is misleading but fail to say what part of the information is wrong. You can't say that a category of information is wrong, say what SPECIFICALLY is wrong.

So what_ That still doesn't make the info any less wrong. Just because we haven't detailed anything does not change that fact. And it's not like we're referring to hidden information that we need to provide proof for in order to back up our claim.
All the information is right there for you to see.

Today I learned that I have to post a full analysis of every single thing that is wrong with the guide, otherwise I'm not allowed to comment on the fact that they've provided false information.

And don't you find it a bit absurd that WE are providing information on the values to the DEVELOPERS, the people who have the code and have built the game_

[OdinTheWise]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I'm sorry but all the posts I've read say the info is misleading but fail to say what part of the information is wrong. You can't say that a category of information is wrong, say what SPECIFICALLY is wrong.

So what_ That still doesn't make the info any less wrong. Just because we haven't detailed anything does not change that fact. And it's not like we're referring to hidden information that we need to provide proof for in order to back up our claim.
All the information is right there for you to see.

Today I learned that I have to post a full analysis of every single thing that is wrong with the guide, otherwise I'm not allowed to comment on the fact that they've provided false information.

And don't you find it a bit absurd that WE are providing information on the values to the DEVELOPERS, the people who have the code and have built the game_

Instead of posting that the info is incorrect, wouldn't it make more sense to point out what isn't correct so that it can be fixed_

[AsianJoyKiller]

OdinTheWise, on May 20 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I'm sorry but all the posts I've read say the info is misleading but fail to say what part of the information is wrong. You can't say that a category of information is wrong, say what SPECIFICALLY is wrong.

So what_ That still doesn't make the info any less wrong. Just because we haven't detailed anything does not change that fact. And it's not like we're referring to hidden information that we need to provide proof for in order to back up our claim.
All the information is right there for you to see.

Today I learned that I have to post a full analysis of every single thing that is wrong with the guide, otherwise I'm not allowed to comment on the fact that they've provided false information.

And don't you find it a bit absurd that WE are providing information on the values to the DEVELOPERS, the people who have the code and have built the game_

Instead of posting that the info is incorrect, wouldn't it make more sense to point out what isn't correct so that it can be fixed_

That makes the assumption that I'm never going to do so.
Which is silly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to make them aware that they've posted false information right away, and then once I've gathered everything I see wrong, let them know the specifics_

[Tomino_sama]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

And don't you find it a bit absurd that WE are providing information on the values to the DEVELOPERS, the people who have the code and have built the game_

It is great that you can provide us with those values, however I am sure that they already know the values as they set them. This player guide is aimed at new players, it is designed to draw people in with creative writing. I salute those efforts as they are more appealing to casual players than pages of hard numbers which I have to compare before playing.

If you are competitive you can go in the Forums and find the Info thanks to the community testing and updating those figures.

Keep in mind that when they say it will take "more work" they refer to the fact that once figures are published, when the patch alters those values, it is another task for the team to go around and adjust the published values. These kinds of tasks are time consuming rather than technically difficult.

I think from a marketing stance the players guide is about right. Too much information will go over most new players heads so it's good to keep it simple.

I am not criticising the Critics for being over critical or trying to be a critic myself. Just keep in mind there is a definitive style in all the marketing releases and it does not accommodate for the kind of detail you are calling out for.

That doesn't mean the information is inaccurate, it means the chosen delivery format is decidedly vague by design.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Tomino_sama, on May 20 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

That doesn't mean the information is inaccurate, it means the chosen delivery format is decidedly vague by design.

Oh.
So when did they change the HEAT Cannon to do more damage than the EOC Repeater_

[Krellus]

Turret mode in rocketeer is the same speed as other turret modes. If it actually moved at normal walking speed, that might be useful! Perhaps this is coming soon, there was a Dev post recently about c-class tweaks in the works.

[Tomino_sama]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Tomino_sama, on May 20 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

That doesn't mean the information is inaccurate, it means the chosen delivery format is decidedly vague by design.

Oh.
So when did they change the HEAT Cannon to do more damage than the EOC Repeater_

I would say RTPN but I am sure you have.

If this is true three things must first be taken into account.
1. EOC rarely hit all pucks on target and requires skill to use effectively.
2. HEAT is only viable at full charge with direct hit and woefully nerfed for AOE / uncharged shots.
3. The fact that these weapons must be used with Full charge means you do not make the most of the fire rate.

So when you say that the HEAT cannon does more damage than the EOC repeater, I would say always, because ever since the first time I used EOC I found it less useful than the HEAT at full charge. I can land a HEAT charge on target most times, but hitting the EOC with all 5 puck is WAY more challenging.

So from your stats:
EOC
Damage: 90 contact + mines (180 charged, 30/puck)
vs.
HEAT
Damage: 80 (100 charged)

^ ^ According to those stats if we are being fair, the EOC is winning on Damage grounds with or without charged shots.
DPS can be hard to give a true figure unless the operator is firing with perfect timing, which does not account for heat management strategies. (leading to periods of time between shots). With any weapons that can be used with or without a Charge, this will apply.

Edited by Tomino_sama, May 20 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[Tomino_sama]

OT - I said already those bars are indicators and if they are inaccurate to the current stats maybe the Mech/weapon will be changed_ Maybe the image in the guide will be changed, regardless I am sure it will get done in a timely fashion.


It's a little pretentious to say we are telling the dev's what is what when they literally wrote the Book on Hawken.


to directly address the image used in the guide indicating that the HEAT holds a higher value than the EOC:

It says "Damage rating" not "damage" or "DPS".

A damage rating could mean anything and the calculation used may in fact put the HEAT cannon ahead of the EOC. This would be easy if the calculation only used the quick shot value as a factor.

Edited by Tomino_sama, May 20 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Tomino, I suggest you read over the thread and actually look at what the devs have said in response to our criticisms...

[Tymojamama]

h0B0, on May 20 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Weapon stats taken from: http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

I little stat organization as of 5/20/13 I thought would help with the info he already gave us,
https://docs.google....dXc&usp=sharing

Edited by Tymojamama, May 20 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Aims]

Nice integration, I'm sure this will be helpful to a lot of new players.

[h0B0]

Tymojamama, on May 20 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

h0B0, on May 20 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Weapon stats taken from: http://hawkenwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

I little stat organization as of 5/20/13 I thought would help with the info he already gave us,
https://docs.google....dXc&usp=sharing

Thanks for that.
Updated the OP.

[Evolwar]

Did anyone else notice that the eu amount each class can hold states the old amount. They are less for B and C now, current amount 150 200 and 250 not past 150 225 and 300.

[Nept]

Nice work on the guide.  It looks good, it's easy to navigate, and it'll provide newer players a wealth of information.  And while exact weapons values would've been nice, I can understand Adhesive's/Meteor's hesitance given the game's beta status.  Also appreciate the testing carried out by hobo and co.

As for the inevitable drama, it's relatively quick and easy to post criticism and opinions nicely. Think of how fit you guys would be if you spent half your inane-and-unnecessary argument time on exercising.

You would be very fit.

Edited by Nept, May 20 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Tymojamama]

Evolwar, on May 20 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Did anyone else notice that the eu amount each class can hold states the old amount. They are less for B and C now, current amount 150 200 and 250 not past 150 225 and 300.

where_ On the wiki or what