583 replies to this topic

[N0stalgia]

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

You talk about the advantages or disadvantages certain builds might offer, but I would argue that this is part of the strategy in competitive play. Keep tweaking your mechs until you 'get it.'

Isn't that the same thing we have now_ Movement Tree > Everything Else. Could make it more confusing for new players so they don't "get it" as quickly as the more advanced players.

They said long time ago that we would be able to use sidegrades to customize our mechs to our play style. If we have cookie cutter builds then that kind of loses the meaning in that.

But can't you see with the new internals / etc. that they are trying to go in the direction you want_ The old internals were a joke, these new ones seem promising - more varied and with more drastic implications. The old optimizations were a joke, these new tuning options seem promising as well. And nobody has had enough time to really get into it yet - and nobody will until the patch drops.

Hawken is never going to be as simple as Quake or UT. That means it will be more difficult to find that right balance. Furthermore, finding that right balance will take a considerable amount of time/data/experience.

The devs are working to see their vision through - this game they created that we all play. Why thrash the forums with your negativity based on assumptions of the future_

[N0stalgia]

HugeGuts, on August 28 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

I wonder if reminding everyone of what the game used to look like will do to the conversation_ After all, it is this Hawken that drew everyone in. Not the World of Warcraft blob fest it is turning into.

Most notable is the speed at which players can hover and boost. Walking speed is similar, turn cap is similar, weapons are totally unbalanced (look how much life the sabot takes). Even I'd appreciate a return to the air combat of that video, but so much progress (in other areas) has been made since.

[EDIT] Also, some of the sound effects were better.

[EDIT] Damn, that video is rad...

Edited by N0stalgia, August 28 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[Goyo]

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

You talk about the advantages or disadvantages certain builds might offer, but I would argue that this is part of the strategy in competitive play. Keep tweaking your mechs until you 'get it.'

Isn't that the same thing we have now_ Movement Tree > Everything Else. Could make it more confusing for new players so they don't "get it" as quickly as the more advanced players.

They said long time ago that we would be able to use sidegrades to customize our mechs to our play style. If we have cookie cutter builds then that kind of loses the meaning in that.

But can't you see with the new internals / etc. that they are trying to go in the direction you want_ The old internals were a joke, these new ones seem promising - more varied and with more drastic implications. The old optimizations were a joke, these new tuning options seem promising as well. And nobody has had enough time to really get into it yet - and nobody will until the patch drops.

Hawken is never going to be as simple as Quake or UT. That means it will be more difficult to find that right balance. Furthermore, finding that right balance will take a considerable amount of time/data/experience.

The devs are working to see their vision through - this game they created that we all play. Why thrash the forums with your negativity based on assumptions of the future_

I know it is semantics but you are contradicting yourself.  You start by saying the devs are trying to give us what we want and then you end off by saying it is their vision not our vision.

I have a love for Hawken and the game-play it provides.  I may be very cynical at times but my statements are to hopefully influence the development in a way I believe positive.

The issue we are running into is that Hawken is evolving.  Through these discussions/arguments on the forums maybe we can influence HOW Hawken is evolving.  Sometimes negativity and constructive criticism are warranted to head off potential mistakes. (hitscan, technician, servers accepting clients that have modified .inis)

Hopefully Meteor/Adhesive's desire to add new stuff to Hawken to keep it relevant does not mean they are adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff.  Do they ask themselves, "Does this make the game better_"

Edited by Goyo, August 28 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Sylhiri]

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

The devs are working to see their vision through - this game they created that we all play. Why thrash the forums with your negativity based on assumptions of the future_

How am I thrashing the forums with negativity_ I love the game as much as you do and because of that I want to see it succeed into something more then pubstomp fest. If the devs didn't care about our - the communities - opinions then they wouldn't have created HAB. Devs can make mistakes, devs can get stubborn, devs are human. If they wanted to make a game where they want people to play their way then they can, they can also pay for it too.

Everyone here knows that Hawken has potential to go further then where they are headed now, just because your satisfied with where it is now doesn't mean that I am the negative one. I want it to grow into something more, I want it to grow into something Hawken. Where I see it going, it's losing it's "Hawken" and I am going to have an opinion on the matter.

Edited by Sylhiri, August 28 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Architect]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 28 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Architect, on August 28 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

I was quoting you and your assumption of a betrayal of a vision that you saw at the begging to what their approach is right now with the new patch. For them to change their approach they must have had a change of heart and decided to scrap the initial vision and proceed with a different vision for the game one you don't agree with and consider a betrayal.

It's not an assumption. It is fact.
Go look at their old posts. What they have done contradicts what they said they do.

Quote

Skill ceilings don't do jack in FPS games it is all about accuracy, reflexes, and most importantly team work/communication. At the end of the day if this game does go towards an eSport way it will be team based and at that point the skill ceiling will disappear.

You don't seem to understand how skill floors and ceilings work.
They don't just magically disappear.

When you push a mechanic to its limits and you can do no more with it, that is the skill ceiling. That doesn't just go away once you start playing competitively or in a team environment.

Skill ceilings are a constant, the result of mechanics. In order for a skill floor or ceiling to go away, the associated mechanic would have to be removed.

Quote

You also mention that "Accessibility is not mutually exclusive with competitive viability" yet then mention how Halo and CoD are complete jokes competitively and only became competitive, because they are extremely popular so obviously there are exception and why shouldn't HAWKEN take the chance and see if that route works out for them.

Because that means turning Hawken into a more generic, less interesting game.
The "less interesting" is subjective, but the "more generic" isn't.

Quote

What I have seen in this game to believe that it could potential become the next big thing is two very important pieces. First of all its the graphics I am fairly certain it is the best looking F2P game and certainly one of the Top PC games in general graphic wise. The second thing it has is that it is a FPS the most popular genre of competitive gaming. The final piece this game need now is balancing the game for the masses.

First off, advanced graphics mean jack-!@$#. Unless you're pushing like Crysis did, it's not going to do much, even with a f2p title, where I have literally seen remarks that are like, "It looks pretty good... for a free to play game."

Please tell me which FPSs are currently more popular competitive titles than LoL, Dota 2 or SCII.

Quote

And also if I am not mistaken I have read that yourself said this game had potential to be awesome and your still around to see if they can fulfill that potential. Once the game comes out and they see the reaction from the players will we get a better picture of where the game is heading. Slating them over things you don't like and disagree with is very selfish as you have no idea what the other people will like and making decision and forcing your opinion on others isn't really fair.

Criticism is acceptable, but you seem to shoving your view of how you want the game to be onto everyone with every post you make. Maybe your just an avid fan and don't want the game to go sh*t, but you got to let the game take its course.

If you weren't mistaken, you'd also know that I was talking about earlier builds, and a return to those mechanics, at least in part.
If you weren't mistaken, you'd realize that I've said at this point I'm just sticking around to see how HAB turns out, and that my outlook is pessimistic.

Also, I'm not holding gun to anybody's head and telling they must agree with me or they'll die.
If people don't agree with me, they can disagree. But I have every right to tell them that I think they're wrong and point out why I think they're wrong. If people don't want me to give them their opinion, they don't have to engage with me or read my posts. I can't jump through my computer, strap them to their chair and tape their eyes open while showing them my posts.

I believe some individuals have put me on ignore. If someone doesn't want to hear from me, then they should do the same, because I'm not about to shut up or be less opinionated any time soon. That'll happen about the same time pigs fly or my cat decides he's not going to step on my keyboard while I'm playing games. In other words, not ****ing soon.

You asked me "Can you prove, solidly, that their original vision was a mistake_" yes, because they decided their initial vision wasn't the one they will follow through and go a different direction that they see more successful.

This is a FPS we are talking about where aim and accuracy is the law not some mechanics that some how make the very best weaker cause they can't further their skill any more. It is rather simple you get a Mech you outfit him and you go wreck sh*t up if anything is going to separate the best from the very best it is team work and communication just like in every team environment in the world.

What it is wrong with turning a game into a more generic game to begin with and I am not saying it is, but you don't seem to understand that people have invest north of 10Mil in this game and the game needs a gamer base for that it needs to have more appeal to everyone not just hardcore Mech players. Having 1K+ play this game because it suits them would be a failure for this company.

In your opinion graphics might not matter, but they certainly matter to all the people that are buying the latest $250 graphic cards that have a handful of games that can actually max out their card and look stunning in. One of the main grudges BF and CoD have is their graphics, with people on the PC buying graphic cards specifically just to be able to max out BF so graphics do play a big part in gaming especially in PC gaming.

CS and CoD are still extremely popular and the best paying as well. MOBA's are the flavor of the month right now with LoL and DOTA starting to gain momentum, but it wasn't so a year ago and it won't stay like that forever.

In regards to your orange text it is exactly what I was talking about. Your trying to shove your opinion and attitude in my face was it really necessary to make the text orange and increase the font size you don't have to try and demean me with your analogies I am not stupid and don't need it to be made obvious I just came here to give my opinion as well, but it certainly isn't one you respect when you have to demean me in the end with unnecessary formatting.

I will just stop sorry to have bother you the last hour or so.

GL and I hope you end up liking the game eventually.

[N0stalgia]

I don't mean to contradict myself. I was suggesting that they are making attempted improvements based on feedback from us. Of course, all of it is within the confines of their vision for the game.

Apologies, Sylhiri, I did not mean you, but there is a level of negativity in this thread that I am uncomfortable with. Constructive criticism is always appreciated I'm sure, but some (not you) are throwing their hands up before the patch has even been released.

After the patch drops, these forums are going to explode.

[Sylhiri]

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Apologies, Sylhiri, I did not mean you, but there is a level of negativity in this thread that I am uncomfortable with. Constructive criticism is always appreciated I'm sure, but some (not you) are throwing their hands up before the patch has even been released.

Ah, no problem then.

If you excuse me, I have to kill this level 30 tentacle monster ~

damn party won't start q.q

Edited by Sylhiri, August 28 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

N0stalgia, on August 28 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Stuff

Ah, no problem then.

If you excuse me, I have to kill this level 30 tentacle monster ~

damn party won't start q.q

Da heck_!

Edited by ShadowWarg, August 28 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Phaaze]

Well I do not know about you, but I actually like the direction they are taking this. though I do not think that it is cod or tf2...

my $0.02

Edited by Phaaze, August 28 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 28 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

Xacius, on August 28 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Yeah! You tell that cat who's boss!

He ignores me and then knocks things on my desk over.

You don't own the cat, the cat owns you.

[Wasabi_Wei]

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Should I comment out what I you and I just said_

Dunno, it's hard to make out what your saying. Looked like you shoved words in my mouth or something, lol.

"The movement tree beats everything else we have now"
"Oh yah, then why don't we just remove it. We removed it and it didn't do anything, we can't fix it so we removed it. Good idea to remove it buddy."

I was not suggesting they do it.  I was voicing my displeasure that they already did it.

Sorry to jump in, but although it in not present on the Bruiser they showcased, other mechs have unique traits on the bottom 4 tuning slots. I think it is premature to conclude that movement bonuses have been removed for all classes/mechs.

EDIT: I should add that in my experience playing the Bruiser as a mobile turret works pretty well, which is what the tree showcased reflects. I would expect the Berserker has different traits to tweak, for example.

Edited by Wasabi_Wei, August 28 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[Goyo]

Wasabi_Wei, on August 28 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Should I comment out what I you and I just said_

Dunno, it's hard to make out what your saying. Looked like you shoved words in my mouth or something, lol.

"The movement tree beats everything else we have now"
"Oh yah, then why don't we just remove it. We removed it and it didn't do anything, we can't fix it so we removed it. Good idea to remove it buddy."

I was not suggesting they do it.  I was voicing my displeasure that they already did it.

Sorry to jump in, but although it in not present on the Bruiser they showcased, other mechs have unique traits on the bottom 4 tuning slots. I think it is premature to conclude that movement bonuses have been removed for all classes/mechs.

EDIT: I should add that in my experience playing the Bruiser as a mobile turret works pretty well, which is what the tree showcased reflects. I would expect the Berserker has different traits to tweak, for example.

Agreed.. I have no concrete evidence but the proof that a B class mech does not have movement bonuses means they are giving only a select few mechs the option for movement bonuses. The mechs that do get the movement bonuses will invariably be the ones that do not need movement bonuses from a balance standpoint.

There is a reason a lot of players like the term, "Fat Ninja".  Eliminating possible mech customizations is a mistake.

Edited by Goyo, August 28 2013 - 11:13 PM.

[Exeon]

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Spoiler

Wasabi_Wei, on August 28 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Sylhiri, on August 28 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Goyo, on August 28 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Should I comment out what I you and I just said_

Dunno, it's hard to make out what your saying. Looked like you shoved words in my mouth or something, lol.

"The movement tree beats everything else we have now"
"Oh yah, then why don't we just remove it. We removed it and it didn't do anything, we can't fix it so we removed it. Good idea to remove it buddy."

I was not suggesting they do it.  I was voicing my displeasure that they already did it.

Sorry to jump in, but although it in not present on the Bruiser they showcased, other mechs have unique traits on the bottom 4 tuning slots. I think it is premature to conclude that movement bonuses have been removed for all classes/mechs.

EDIT: I should add that in my experience playing the Bruiser as a mobile turret works pretty well, which is what the tree showcased reflects. I would expect the Berserker has different traits to tweak, for example.

Agreed.. I have no concrete evidence but the proof that a B class mech does not have movement bonuses means they are giving only a select few mechs the option for movement bonuses. The mechs that do get the movement bonuses will invariably be the ones that do not need movement bonuses from a balance standpoint.

There is a reason a lot of players like the term, "Fat Ninja".  Eliminating possible mech customizations is a mistake.

If you watch the video, the bruiser that he's playing has this new air dynamis. Looks like they're trying to make air combat viable, unique to certain mechs i hope.

Edited by Exeon, August 29 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[Wasabi_Wei]

I wish that they had shown us the Raider's Tuning options..

[phed]

Wasabi_Wei, on August 29 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I wish that they had shown us the Raider's Tuning options..

or scout, reaper, infiltrator, brawler, anything but the 1 mech i don't care about...

[ShadowWarg]

f_error, on August 30 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Puhhh, it seems i wont be getting much out of the free unlocks. So far i have Reaper, Scout and Infiltrator on lvl25. Scout and Reaper don't unlock anything. I have a SS rusting at lvl11 (recently forced), that wont get any new motivation, since i dont care for another Reaper.
The inf unlocks the raider, which so far is nice, since it should save me ~12.000HC. On the other hand the raider is a tier 3 mech and wont unlock anything if i max it. So the only free unlock i get, gives motivation to maxing "only" to keep playing it.
I have yet to max the CRT, which is kind of a bother with all the a-class burst killers around. But for making 9 more levels i will get the Vanguard. Seems ok and will prevent me from buying a Grenadier right now before the patch comes and doubles it price. I feel more like saving any HC for the "mandatory" new items and internals.

This is not a complaint. But to me the new system is only "news" and not "happy news".
Well maybe we get a/the new mech as a free unlock for Reaper, Scout or Tech.

It also depends on your pilot rank. If you have maxed out your pilot rank you will also be getting Rocketeer, Zerker, Brawler, and tech. Otherwise if you haven't hit level 4 rank yet, you MAY not even get the Raider.

Edited by ShadowWarg, August 30 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

f_error, on August 31 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Wait, so if you dont have the required rank and only the required mech, you dont get the unlock_

I don't know. I said MAY. It may work like that, it may not. They didn't exactly make that clear imo.

f_error, on August 31 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

So effectively the patch is doubling the prices on the three mechs on my to-buy-list while increasing cost for upgrades at the same time_ Nice.

I don't remember them saying anything about upping the prices.

f_error, on August 31 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Is there any info when/how you reach the ranks_

Your rank is determined by how much overall xp you have collectively earned between all your mechs. So if you have 1000000 on your scout and 600000 on your Infiltrator, collectively you have 1600000 xp and that will determine your player rank. As you play more and get more xp your rank will increase.

Edited by ShadowWarg, August 31 2013 - 08:26 AM.