100 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

Bazookagofer, on December 23 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on December 23 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Why does the scout change to fit its role better have to be so complicated_ The heat generation (heat sink) and the cool down time from over heating (cooling unit) could both be increased so it can only engage for a even short time frame on top of its low health. That would make it fit the roll or "scout" with its radar and hydraulics tuning. Find the enemy mark them, and get out fast or wait for back up. If you decrease the amount of time it can defend itself then it doesn't matter how fast it is if it can't attack. And on the flip side more advance players can handle the change because they know how to manage heat, so a change like this wont matter in high level play that much, as most high level players use a verity of mechs anyway.

A scout is supposed to just see what the enemy is doing /gather intel... so a more appropriate weapon loadout for the scout would be a target marker which increases damage and a sabot. Also i really think they should change name from scout to commando.

And yes I agree with you, that should be the role of the scout. However its not that easy for them to just swap out weapons as has been stated because of the system that they have developed. So its best to think of more practical ways to alter the mech that can be implemented fast if your goal is to see an immediate fix to the scout. Also "gathering intel" as you put it, relies just as much on the person playing as it does on the mechs ability to allow a person to do so. Meaning the incentive to provide intel to team members shouldn't just be a mechanic built into the mech, but the player should be active on either the voice and text chat to call out important info. That's the point of a team based game.

[RedVan]

You're assuming the name means anything...  Look at the cupcake, should that just be a tasty treat_  Should the CRT be a TV_

But srsly, the names don't really mean anything, it's been that way since the beginning

[Bazookagofer]

RedVan, on December 23 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

You're assuming the name means anything...  Look at the cupcake, should that just be a tasty treat_  Should the CRT be a TV_

But srsly, the names don't really mean anything, it's been that way since the beginning

But they should. Names are usually a general description of the mech. When i hear bruiser i expect something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear brawler i think something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear grenadier i expect something that lobs grenades(which it does) when i hear scout i think of something that marks enemy position and gathers intel but what we have instead is something that resembles more of a spec ops unit that goes in and out before anyone notices...

Edited by Bazookagofer, December 23 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[RedVan]

Bazookagofer, on December 23 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

RedVan, on December 23 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

You're assuming the name means anything...  Look at the cupcake, should that just be a tasty treat_  Should the CRT be a TV_

But srsly, the names don't really mean anything, it's been that way since the beginning

But they should. Names are usually a general description of the mech. When i hear bruiser i expect something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear brawler i think something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear grenadier i expect something that lobs grenades(which it does) when i hear scout i think of something that marks enemy position and gathers intel but what we have instead is something that resembles more of a spec ops unit that goes in and out before anyone notices...

Well... spec ops do a hell a lot of intel irl... so no problem there   If you want a unit that will go in advance of a main team, they better be well trained and well equipped.  They're not just some dude in running gear, some binoculars, a gps unit, and a pistol.

I have a friend who is a JTAC, they're the guys on the ground with either army, marines, or spec ops, that point out targets for jets to roll.  He don't just run around with a radio... nah, he's qualified on 7 weapon systems, to include remote control 50 cals.  They ain't light weights, that's for sure.

Edited by RedVan, December 24 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Bazookagofer]

RedVan, on December 24 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Bazookagofer, on December 23 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

RedVan, on December 23 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

You're assuming the name means anything...  Look at the cupcake, should that just be a tasty treat_  Should the CRT be a TV_

But srsly, the names don't really mean anything, it's been that way since the beginning

But they should. Names are usually a general description of the mech. When i hear bruiser i expect something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear brawler i think something that can soak up damage (which it does), when i hear grenadier i expect something that lobs grenades(which it does) when i hear scout i think of something that marks enemy position and gathers intel but what we have instead is something that resembles more of a spec ops unit that goes in and out before anyone notices...

Well... spec ops do a hell a lot of intel irl... so no problem there   If you want a unit that will go in advance of a main team, they better be well trained and well equipped.  They're not just some dude in running gear, some binoculars, a gps unit, and a pistol.

I have a friend who is a JTAC, they're the guys on the ground with either army, marines, or spec ops, that point out targets for jets to roll.  He don't just run around with a radio... nah, he's qualified on 7 weapon systems, to include remote control 50 cals.  They ain't light weights, that's for sure.

I am not saying that scouts don't have the right to carry weapons etc I am just saying that the main role of Scout's is to mark targets etc. The weapons are there like an insurance policy just in case they come under fire. The scout in this game though is " YEA IM JUST GOING TO GO BERZERK YEARAGAKGAJSHGA". If the scouts secondary had 2 modes: 1st one to mark targets which increases damage taken by 10% and marks them on your radar and the other mode similar to tow(weaker though, packs enough punch to hold off an enemy) as an "insurance" policy it would make more sense and maybe actually fit the name "Scout"

[RedVan]

Tbh, I don't even see much use for marking targets in hawken. HF missiles are independent, and the maps are so small, pointing out where the enemy is with anything other than word of mouth (or the spotting feature all mechs have) is over the top

[SuperSkyler]

I'd like it if they just removed it from the game

[X_Mangoose_X]

I think the scout can cause excessive damage , need a nerf

[RedVan]

Annnnnnd round 2 of rehashing!

[Onebullit]

Ding Ding Ding.

The thing is, i myselft do not think that the Scout is OP or whatever, but there is something ...
Never said or complained about the Scout (Technician only) but i really can understand when
people say that the Scout is OP or can cause excessive damage or ...
Best way to beat the Scout or any other mech is by playing with it yourself and
getting to know the mech's strong and weak points (takes some time of course)
That's how i did, and still do it anyway.

[CounterlogicMan]

Bottom line, SCOUT SOULD NOT HAVE FLAK CANNON. It completely defeats the purpose of having the mini-flak as an option, and as time has shown makes the mech much to powerful when combined with its inherent stat advantages. Combine the flak with proper internals, tuning, and items and you suddenly have all the CQC damage potential of a brawler with 3x the speed/survivability.

I personally think the scout is pretty well balanced as far as its base stats ability and tuning options go, the problem from my view is the Flak+TOW combo stealing the brawlers thunder/one of its few advantages.

Flak cannon gives to much alpha ability to such a small, quick, and mobile mech. In other words, for a mech that is suppose to be hit and run the flak gives the scout too much staying power/too low of TTK against other mechs in an engagement.

When playing the scout I find the heat and the mini-flak make the scout quite balanced. As soon as you switch to the flak the mech turns the game into ultra easy mode.

Slightly buff mini-flak (heat gen is a little too high otherwise it is a fantastic and enjoyable weapon), remove flak cannon and replace it with a sustained fire weapon. Scout is suddenly in line with other mechs, has 2 unique weapon combos (TOW+heat/mini-flak) and one familiar weapon combo to ease people into the mech (TOW+AR or SMC).

Edited by CounterlogicMan, December 25 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Xtratega]

Once upon a time, there was a match, everybody was good, everybody was Scout. Then someone turned Assault and stayed away. That person turned into a MVP.

The end.

[Mal3fic]

In a galaxy far far away...
there was a scout, so I shot it in the face.
the end.

[X_Mangoose_X]

are already diverting topics .... that bad habit.
the problem right now, its function is not clear, now seems a assassin supposedly is a defense unit.
also the problem is the connection latencies of many players that do not allow to follow the movements of the scouts low latency.
I think the chances of improving the performance of the servers is very low at this time .....
the scout needs revision to match the actual Hawken.
pd: English is not my native language, sorry if its hard to read!

Edited by X_Mangoose_X, December 26 2013 - 03:46 AM.

[Exeon]

The scout already serves a great role in tdm/ma I'd guess it is a great choice in seige but no one plays that. The mech is exceptional at flanking teams or coming in to sweep up low health kills that are trying to get away. The mech is relatively balanced on terms of power/ease to kill. Many newer players haven't fully mastered to the hawken turn rate aiming restriction so the speedy devil escapes their grasp. As far as claims that a scout can surpass the turn rate this is true however a simple dodge maneuver solves this problem.

[RedVan]

X_Mangoose_X, on December 26 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

are already diverting topics .... that bad habit.
the problem right now, its function is not clear, now seems a assassin supposedly is a defense unit.
also the problem is the connection latencies of many players that do not allow to follow the movements of the scouts low latency.
I think the chances of improving the performance of the servers is very low at this time .....
the scout needs revision to match the actual Hawken.
pd: English is not my native language, sorry if its hard to read!

you cannot balance games around bad connection.  You need to balance a game around people with good connection, then make more servers in areas for others to have good connection.

[CounterlogicMan]

I'd really love to hear how team HWK feels about the scout. Scout is a hotly debated topic, if there was some clarity in regards to HWKs intent/reasoning for the mechs current or future state, I am sure would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know about you guys, but I would surely shut my trap about the issue if I could only have some reasoning behind the mechs current or future intended design/implementation. Just so I could more accurately compare what the intent is and what the reality is. Would make the whole testing part a lot easier.

If this has been shared before and I missed it I'd love a link to that.

[PoopSlinger]

I switch to scout after I die a lot in my other robots   It must be too strong

[X_Mangoose_X]

RedVan, on December 26 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

X_Mangoose_X, on December 26 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

are already diverting topics .... that bad habit.
the problem right now, its function is not clear, now seems a assassin supposedly is a defense unit.
also the problem is the connection latencies of many players that do not allow to follow the movements of the scouts low latency.
I think the chances of improving the performance of the servers is very low at this time .....
the scout needs revision to match the actual Hawken.
pd: English is not my native language, sorry if its hard to read!

you cannot balance games around bad connection.  You need to balance a game around people with good connection, then make more servers in areas for others to have good connection.

I have never referred to such a thing, I mean just because some players have problems against a scout.

CounterlogicMan, on December 26 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I'd really love to hear how team HWK feels about the scout. Scout is a hotly debated topic, if there was some clarity in regards to HWKs intent/reasoning for the mechs current or future state, I am sure would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know about you guys, but I would surely shut my trap about the issue if I could only have some reasoning behind the mechs current or future intended design/implementation. Just so I could more accurately compare what the intent is and what the reality is. Would make the whole testing part a lot easier.

If this has been shared before and I missed it I'd love a link to that.

I too would like to know the opinion of the Team HWK, this issue has been debated for too long, or at least know if they have it in consideration.

Edited by X_Mangoose_X, December 26 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[X_Mangoose_X]

Double post, sorry is my mistake.

Edited by X_Mangoose_X, December 26 2013 - 06:00 PM.