90 replies to this topic

[StubbornPuppet]

First and foremost, quitting before the end of a match should deny you all XP, HC and anything else that went with the match.

A person who is on the losing team and quits more than 3 minutes into a match should be penalized with a deduction from their XP and HC.

A person who quits a match should not be allowed to join any matches for a period of at least 5 minutes. (If "something important came up" and you needed to leave, you shouldn't be able to get back from taking care of it that quickly anyhow)

Institute a publicly visible player statistic that represents a rating based on "honorable play":
Things like volunteering to switch teams, staying through a losing match, working the objectives (something which doesn't provide enough points already), having in-game friends and sticking with a server for consecutive matches would move this score upwards.

Quitting, failing to work in objective zones (for the KDR junkies), failing to volunteer to switch when imbalanced, repeatedly playing in servers with a much lower player skill average (maybe not a problem any longer) and the like would earn you a lower score.

[Cannonaire]

StubbornPuppet, on January 20 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

First and foremost, quitting before the end of a match should deny you all XP, HC and anything else that went with the match.

A person who is on the losing team and quits more than 3 minutes into a match should be penalized with a deduction from their XP and HC.

A person who quits a match should not be allowed to join any matches for a period of at least 5 minutes. (If "something important came up" and you needed to leave, you shouldn't be able to get back from taking care of it that quickly anyhow)

Institute a publicly visible player statistic that represents a rating based on "honorable play":
Things like volunteering to switch teams, staying through a losing match, working the objectives (something which doesn't provide enough points already), having in-game friends and sticking with a server for consecutive matches would move this score upwards.

Quitting, failing to work in objective zones (for the KDR junkies), failing to volunteer to switch when imbalanced, repeatedly playing in servers with a much lower player skill average (maybe not a problem any longer) and the like would earn you a lower score.

Here is my perspective using (mostly) your words for precision.

First and foremost, quitting before the end of a match should afford you all XP, HC and anything else that went with the match.

A person who is on the losing team and quits more than 3 minutes into a match should be awarded with their earned XP and HC.

A person who quits a match should be allowed to join any match for a period of at least as long as they are able to play. (If "something important came up" and you needed to leave, you should be able to get back from taking care of it quickly anyhow)

Do not institute a publicly visible player statistic that represents a rating based on "honorable play" because it would catalyze elitism and stigmatize those who are unable to stay in matches for real reasons:
Things like volunteering to switch teams, staying through a losing match, working the objectives (something which doesn't provide enough points already), having in-game friends and sticking with a server for consecutive matches should be a decision each player makes based on whether or not they are having fun and are able to do so.

Quitting, failing to work in objective zones (for the KDR junkies), failing to volunteer to switch when imbalanced, repeatedly playing in servers with a much lower player skill average (maybe not a problem any longer) and the like is lame, but that is your prerogative in a public game.

Edited by Cannonaire, January 20 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Muffintrumpet]

punitive measures levied against leavers is a nonsense, particularly within the context of a hot-join game; if this game had a ‘Ranked’ mode of play, a la LoL, then perhaps this subject might be worth revisiting
(6v6 squad matches perhaps_)

the best incentive is a positive incentive

[Superkamikazee]

Quiters should not be awarded any xp or hc, it's that simple.

Why should someone who quits, who puts their team at a disadvatage be awarded anything at all_ I don't care if you have to go do something or not. You quit, you lose your progress, the same way your team is losing a player andhas to suffer, as should the quiter suffer.

I'm so sick of people quiting in games whether it's from my team or the opposing team. Quiting should not be rewarded the way it is now. There needs to be a penalty.

And hide the mmr stat, that's a whole other issue, but yeah do that so there's no way to know. That's all everyone cares about.

Edited by Superkamikazee, January 21 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[Cannonaire]

Superkamikazee, on January 21 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

And hide the mmr stat, that's a whole other issue, but yeah do that so there's no way to know. That's all everyone cares about.

I agree. You can show players their win/loss percentage, their K/D ratio, and any other stat, but it is imprudent for players to know and be able to manipulate the rating that matches them to other players.

Edited by Cannonaire, January 21 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Preternatural]

Because this game does not take competitiveness very seriously, I don't see why someone leaving a crappily balanced match should be penalized. I play this game for pure fun. If a certain match is ridiculous (meaning that my team is filled with noobs, or the enemy team was a pro organized friend match, or lag was terrible, or my frame rates were dropping) I will leave and not feel bad about it. FPS video games cater to people looking for some mindless pleasure, and if I'm not receiving that mindless pleasure I'll go look for it in another match.

I really hate the term "ragequit". I've "ragequitted" a total of once in my Hawken career (when I was up against an obvious sharpy aimbotter, who could hit my tiny a class zipping and dodging through the air from across the map. That was a level 14 game, mind you. He didn't miss a single shot.) All the other times I've left a match has been a calculated move. I left because I was dragging my team down, or because I wanted a match that was a bit fairer, a bit more fun.

Ragequitters have been and always will be a part of FPSs, if you don't like it, don't do it yourself.

Edited by Preternatural, January 22 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[LONEDEADWOLF]

I have to say this may well be the worst idea yet...i have many times crashed due to over clocking systems left and right....real life comes calling and i have to leave and you guys who have no life want to punish those with one..... are you for real_!   I didnt invest a ton of money to get punished because what makes me money comes calling because you kiddies want to cry over a game...no no no no ill stop playing HAWKEN all together before that happens....sell my account to a friend or something but this idea is BS and then the new player base that will come in the game will leave faster then they do now_.....no this is bad   Punish me for my real life ok   You think its a small player base let this get around the web and watch less people  play the game...

Edited by LONEDEADWOLF, January 22 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[Ealdent]

First of all, this post is based on a false assumption, that you know what is going on in somebody's head.  I don't care how strongly you feel that you know people are "rage" quitting, you simply cannot.  Your anecdotal evidence is nonsense.

Secondly, every PVP game should be as susceptible as any other to rage quitting after any encounter.  If this is a "real problem" for Hawken, and not some other game, then the problem is with Hawken and not the tactic.  I hope the devs are closely watching game join and drop stats since the latest balance changes.

My absolute garbage anecdotal evidence is that since the balance changes, the polarity of teams seems to be pronounced in game modes like Siege, where you either stomp or get ass-fuzzy bunny 9 times out of 10 vs actually seeing a close match.

Also I think it's actually quite psychologically unhealthy to continue a match where you want to ragequit.  If you're at the point where in order to avoid intense rage, you must quit a match, then you should absolutely do so.  Those kind of stress levels aren't good for anyone.  Also, dropping a match may actually allow a person with better skill to join and bring balance back into the match.

[Spliff_Craven]

A player regularly leaving "bad" matches punishes those that stick it out.
If someone habitually "disconnects" either by choice or by unforeseen elements, they should enjoy playing with people that do the same and leave the team players to play by themselves.

Making others suffer do to ones inability to adapt or co-ordinate {poor matching} or for stat preservation makes the game unenjoyable for the players that stick it out. Selfishness shouldn't be rewarded.

People that habitually leave {and the unseen stat's show how often it happens as well as identifying the "frequent flyers"} should play with players that drop as much as they do. Why punish player that don't drop_
If someone is that good they shouldn't need to "quit" often. If they stick out matches it would show and they'd get the rewards that come from sticking it out. Being paired off with likeminded players is it's own reward {or punishment}.

If a player actually have issues staying connected take up a support ticket or stay the course if they have any skill at all. Everyone wins!
If someone overclocks their system and frequently crash due to inappropriate stresses get a professional overclocker to tweak your system right and prevent premature hardware failure. You'll be thankful you saved the price of a new system. Everyone wins!
Drop frequently due to life issues or personal choices and get to play with like minded players. Everyone wins! {Or play at a time less interrupted}

After all it's all about getting players the best quality of matches without making others pay for it. Feeling good about what you play is the best possible psychological outcome. EVERYONE WINS!

Edited by Spliff_Craven, January 23 2014 - 10:18 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

^Exactly.  Not talking about "punishing" people who quit... just talking about not rewarding them for it.

[Superkamikazee]

Finish the match, get the points, don't finish the match, no points. Tadaaaaaa. I don't see punishment in that philosophy, all I see is reward, reward for finishing the match, reward for not scrwing your team.

Edited by Superkamikazee, January 24 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[ReEvolve]

I have to confess: I also quit matches for various reasons:

• I get a party invite to play with friends (playing with friends is the most fun imo)
  
• I have to do something irl
  
• Playing on that server isn't fun at all. For example: I just joined a server where the people are too skilled for me and I get wrecked pretty badly (it also doesn't help when my team mates get angry about me not being a high skill player and actually tell me to leave)

So, yeah, I don't want players who quit to be punished. What about newbies who are playing against a team of really skilled players (unfortunately that happens quite a lot)_ Should those newbies be punished not wanting to be stomped_

I still hope that the upcoming changes will help matchmaking and team balancing so less people actually quit for reason such as completely onesided matches.

Superkamikazee, on January 24 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Finish the match, get the points, don't finish the match, no points. Tadaaaaaa. I don't see punishment in that philosophy, all I see is reward, reward for finishing the match, reward for not scrwing your team.

Hm, but isn't this also a punishment_ Usually players earn XP and HC during the match and they receive a "bonus" (match time, place on the scoreboard) at the end of the match. I think it is a punishment if a player who quits close to the end does not get any of the XP and HC he/she earned during the match.

My suggestion if you really have to use a punishment: Let players who quit keep their XP and HC but reduce the XP and HC earned during the match. This reduction can be blanaced out by using a XP/HC multiplier that will be awarded at the end of the match. For example: players earn 75% of their points during the match and get the remaining 25% as a "match completed" bonus.

Anyway, I still think there should be no punishment and no hidden stats for rage quitters. I'm still hoping that the upcoming changes and rising number of Hawken players in general (after sometime there'll be more players in all skill tiers) will reduce the ragequitting.

Edited by ReEvolve, January 25 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Spliff_Craven]

So it's better for people who frequently quit matches {regardless of reason} to punish other players_

The individual gets no penalty and the remaining players get to be a man down on firepower and objectives with a good possibility for match loss.

That's not fair to any team. Especially if it's a frequent occurrence of an individual.
No accountability = not right.

If you know a consequence may happen you may push your luck. After a consequence you may make different choices. Accountability is important.

Why not test it out_ You don't know if it will improve game quality until you test it.
After all it's only BETA...
{Yes I intentionally used the beta card.}

W.O.T. uses a lock of tank and server until that match is over. It doesn't seem to hurt their sales or growth.
As Hawken is a different game I submit match style only until the match left is finished. The "offending" player would still have access to all mechs and only receive accumulated points {to be fair to those that legitimately drop}.
When people know the consequences of an action they tend to wise up and game play over all improves.

[ReEvolve]

Spliff_Craven, on January 25 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

The individual gets no penalty and the remaining players get to be a man down on firepower and objectives with a good possibility for match loss.

So, let's assume that a player quits because he gets wrecked after the average skill on the server became too high thanks to some experienced players who joined later. If he leaves there is either the possibility for a onesided match or also a good possibility for someone else to join who might be more suited to play with the current average "skill level". Essentially this:

Ealdent, on January 22 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

Also, dropping a match may actually allow a person with better skill to join and bring balance back into the match.

After reading the whole thread up to this point again I recognized that many people still think that the only reason to leave is "ragequitting".

Spliff_Craven, on January 25 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

<snip>

If you know a consequence may happen you may push your luck. After a consequence you may make different choices. Accountability is important.

<snip>

When people know the consequences of an action they tend to wise up and game play over all improves.

But there is no "wising up" if you leave a match because you have to do something in real life (for example: answer a phone call, pick somebody up). In my opinion that isn't really a choice. Would it be better if the player would be afk and idle on the server instead of making space for somebody who can actively participate in the fight_

And there's also another reason that I see emerging more and more over the last weeks: insulting players for their performance. I'm sorry but I think a match where your team mates start calling you names and telling you to leave, isn't fun. I think nobody should be forced to stay in a match like this. So when I leave the match because it's so goddamn annoying I should be punished_ Come on, that's like hitting somebody who's already on the ground.

Spliff_Craven, on January 25 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Why not test it out_ You don't know if it will improve game quality until you test it.
After all it's only BETA...
{Yes I intentionally used the beta card.}

The problem is that there's often a few weeks between patches (*) and a lot of "innocent" players would lose their progress.

I know nobody likes playing with/against ragequitters but please don't forget that nobody ragequits for fun. I can see that it pains a lot of players so I made a suggestion for a lighter punishment in my former post.



* => I am aware that there have to be several weeks between patches otherwise nobody could tell if the changes made a long-lasting impact on gameplay.

[Fpsnoobs]

Alot of you are forgetting a crucial aspect of many quitters
Those that quit often suck at the game
If you're decent you can get a good amount of points if the team even has only 1other decent player
Heck I wished they quit more often, rather that then people who hide when 5 hits of dmg is taken
Better then a server full of bads getting stomped 40-5, if the bads quit more chance someone better shows up

[Logicus]

I'm up to level 16 now, and I can say that I have quit a couple of games and there are some players that have been on my teams that I'd wished had quit. I think that if you quit from a game, it should simply nullify your earned stats, good or bad, from that match. I've had a couple of games where my team mates monkied around, scattered all over the grid "trying to be Rambo" as one person put it, and it was simply a fuzzy bunny game. I've also been in one where I literally couldn't make it more than 1-2 mintues without getting killed off... I was the one contributing to our losing score, and more people, I see, typically join the battlefield quite often, so my quitting afforded someone else's ability to join in, and probably do better for the team than I would have had I stayed on.

As stated, I feel like quitting a match, no matter how far in, should simply nullify the stats. I can say this: the game has never asked MY OPINION as to if I felt it would be fair for it to crash 1 minute before the end of an exciting match, so....

[Joystix]

I don't think anyone should be punished for quitting...I join/quit siege matches sometimes...when the score is 200 to 3000 already, at my point of entry..or Team Deathmatch...when it's 23 to 7...again, at the point I am "entered" into the match buy the matchmaker.

I'd hate to be punished for that.

I am a low skill level player...my teams get stomped from time to time...if I was part of that stompage from the get-go...I have the internal fortitude to take it as it is...quitting wasn't allowed where I grew up.

The playing the whole match...a close match, and quitting with a minute to go because it LOOKS like it'll be a loss is B.S.   and that happens quite a bit.

I am all for a markable "honor system" keeping track of players "finish rates" in matches...but don't think any punishment should be levied.

[Spliff_Craven]

Many say no punishment/consequence and yet pretty much all agree to some degree, something should be done.

[Brnmatt7]

The only time I ever ragequit is if someone else's ping is through the roof...which is constant after the last update. Hopefully the connectivity issues get fixed in the upcoming update.

[dontmindme]

People still screaming for punishment and banishment(pairing leavers with leavers/join-cool-down timers/nerfed XP/HC earning/etc) for leaving_  How about you all wait and see how things work out with STEAM first.  If there is a large enough wave of new players who actually stick around and the rage-quitting problem is still unbearable, whatever, go for it, complain until the devs jump.  But at least see if you're going to have enough people to beat over the head with sticks and rocks if they don't play the way you want them to...

I personally don't know the details when it comes to the STEAM agreement between ADH/meteor and VALVe, but either they were desperate enough to go the STEAM route to pull people in and deal with the STEAM tax, or hopefully they're just listening to a healthy community demanding *shudders* wrapping STEAM around Hawken.  I'd rather not have ADH / meteor take a bath on this one, so how about you all put some thought into giving people a reason to stick it out in-game rather than leave Hawken completely and scream those ideas at the devs..

like the equivalents of random drops, be it XP boosters, a repair drone, skin, badge, dashboard bubblehead, holo taunt, extra HC, or even a small amount of MC, and make actually getting these somewhat rare and/or based upon some rolling quit/stay-rate.  But. if Hawken gets up there in Dota 2 territory in the STEAM stats page, whatever, start a rage-quitting hall of fame and grab your ban-hammers.


I wonder if we'll all be able to see actual stats on Hawken soon! (http://store.steampowered.com/stats/)