160 replies to this topic

[ticklemyiguana]

Bazookagofer, on May 15 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

ticklemyiguana, on May 08 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Annnnd for the one or two people saying flight should be limited and nerfed hard, why are you here_ Hawken is a game of trade offs. Flying at any speed burns fuel and burning fuel means it's harder to escaaaaaaaapppppppe. ITALICS.

Hawken was a game of trade offs before ascension where internals gave us a + and a - . Now it a game where as you level up you get more utility etc and that is true. You don't need those utilities but they help since there is no drawback to using them.

The drawback is you can't use other items in their place. If you can't use those internals with the effectiveness that an AC can be used, but they can be that effective (and I'd argue most of them can) that is a legitimate trade off.

[Spliff_Craven]

I get the feeling air compressor should be an all or nothing innovation.

It should be a feature part of all mechs or removed entirely. It should not be a "bolt on" because it creates a mobility advantage for the user. If balance is to be achieved it needs to become an integration to the base mech {which would make air 180 an on/off feature in your control panel not a "bolt on" as well} or it should be removed from the game entirely.

I prefer all mechs getting it to keep the game fast and fun than removing it and keeping our mechs landlocked.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

To be honest, I think it's fine as is.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where a lot of people are coming from, but the whole purpose of it being an internal is to give someone an edge.

I don't use it save for my scout. The only reason I use it on my Scout is to give it a mobility extension, which is good because the thing can't last long at all. I don't, however, use it in my Predator entirely because it's not viable. It takes up too much space, and provides too little in the way of gaining the upper hand.

If anything, I believe it should be removed, and revoked to one class as a specialty. Make it the Air assault class, and make it flimsy like cardboard. Like a G2 Scout.

[Weezl3]

the only thing I would change about the current Air Compressor is that I would remove the level restriction for purchasing it. The fact that you have to be level 21 to unlock one of the strongest internals in the game unless you spend meteor credits is the only legitimate p2w argument that I have seen about this game.

If they were to remove this level requirement, then people won't able to make that claim anymore with any real validity. As far as being turned into a universal ability instead of only being able to do it when you equip the internal would be fine, but I think this is unnecessary. The use of it as an internal requires an analysis of rewards versus costs compared to the use of other internals.

[Nept]

Moar air compressor!

[Xacius]

Step 1. Replace the rest of AWS servers with awesome servers from alternate hosting providers.  
Step 2. Make the air dodge universal.  
Step 3.  Change the current Air Compressor to an internal that increases a given mech's Air Dynamics value by 3-4 points
Step 4. Profit

[Deadmen_Tim]

Xacius, on May 18 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Step 1. Replace the rest of AWS servers with awesome servers from alternate hosting providers.  
Step 2. Make the air dodge universal.  
Step 3.  Change the current Air Compressor to an internal that increases a given mech's Air Dynamics value by 3-4 points
Step 4. Profit

Non-universal AC is the problem, but not the biggest one. The biggest problem is how much this air maneuvrability gives to the pilot. With universal AC it will be the same no-skill air monkey circus. The AC maneuvers needs to be nerfed.

Edited by Deadmen_Tim, May 18 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[shosca]

Xacius, on May 18 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Step 1. Replace the rest of AWS servers with awesome servers from alternate hosting providers.  
Step 2. Make the air dodge universal.  
Step 3.  Change the current Air Compressor to an internal that increases a given mech's Air Dynamics value by 3-4 points
Step 4. Profit

Step 5.. Fix Incinerator
Step 6. Make more profit
Step 7. Reduce the delay
Step 8. Make more profit
Step 9. Fix radar and radar scanner
Step 10. Make more profit

[Nept]

You don't get to complain about too much maneuverability in a game with remote-detonation splash weaponry.  Sorry.

[Deadmen_Tim]

Nept, on May 19 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

You don't get to complain about too much maneuverability in a game with remote-detonation splash weaponry.  Sorry.

Looks like you didn't got it. Actually, you totally missed the point. There are risk-reward balance. When you have AC maneuvrability, especially as A-class, your risk is ultra low, and reward is huge. Sorry.

[Nept]

I invite you to come play your ultra-low risk mech against my ultra-high risk mech.  If you think that you're safe spamming predictable air dodges against good players - in a game with remote-detonation weaponry - then you've not played good players.  Sorry.

[DerMax]

Nept, on May 19 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

I invite you to come play your ultra-low risk mech against my ultra-high risk mech.  If you think that you're safe spamming predictable air dodges against good players - in a game with remote-detonation weaponry - then you've not played good players.  Sorry.

Oh Nepters, if only you knew who Deadmen_Tim is, you would never say what you said.

(To give you a hint: he was the first EU player to hit 2600 MMR)

Of course your duel will never happen because a) he doesn't use the AC and b.) you live on different continents, but I agree with Tim — making the AC universal won't do the trick; it should be toned down in one of the ways proposed in this thread or elsewhere on the forums.

Edited by DerMax, May 19 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Deadmen_Tim]

Nept, on May 19 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

I invite you to come play your ultra-low risk mech against my ultra-high risk mech.  If you think that you're safe spamming predictable air dodges against good players - in a game with remote-detonation weaponry - then you've not played good players.  Sorry.

Max already said it all. It's cute how you refuse to get the point and going for personalities instead. But undestandable, considering you're the guy who mains A-class. You just don't care about balance at all.

Infinite kite never was the balanced thing in any game i played. Zero for Something exchanges never was the balanced thing in any game i played. And it never will be, otherwise this kind of a game will die. Oh, wait. Something happening to Hawken...

Sorry, of course.

Edited by Deadmen_Tim, May 19 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[Nept]

DerMax, on May 19 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Nept, on May 19 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

I invite you to come play your ultra-low risk mech against my ultra-high risk mech.  If you think that you're safe spamming predictable air dodges against good players - in a game with remote-detonation weaponry - then you've not played good players.  Sorry.

Oh Nepters, if only you knew who Deadmen_Tim is, you would never say what you said.
(To give you a hint: he was the first EU player to hit 2600 MMR)

Oh, I most definitely would.  Anyone who thinks AC dodges are difficult to hit needs a bit of a lesson.  And I've heard about the Russian pub stacks/seen the stream, so I'm not overly concerned.

Deadmen_Tim, on May 19 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Max already said it all. It's cute how you refuse to get the point and going for personalities instead. But undestandable, considering you're the guy who mains A-class. You just don't care about balance at all.

Sorry, of course.

Looks like you didn't get it. Actually, you totally missed the point.  It's not about personalities.  It's about you believing that dodging in the air provides "ultra" risk reduction.  That's completely false.

Come play on East and we'll give you a demonstration.  I'm on West coast myself, so the pings won't be so terribly different.

Besides, your risk will be "ultra-low" with AC, so I'm sure you'll do great.

Hah.  Sorry.

*Edit* I don't main A-classes.  I'd rather increase maneuverability in this game to increase the skill differential.  Unlike yourself and Dermax, I don't want the game made easier for myself.

Edited by Nept, May 19 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Leonhardt]

Deadmen_Tim, on May 19 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Max already said it all. It's cute how you refuse to get the point and going for personalities instead. But undestandable, considering you're the guy who mains A-class. You just don't care about balance at all.

I dont think you have played with Nept much. He mostly plays B-classes and mains the SS.

[Bazookagofer]

Ladies your both pretty now sit down and talk this through...

[Deadmen_Tim]

Nept, on May 19 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

And I've heard about the Russian pub stacks/seen the stream, so I'm not overly concerned.

Hehe, i hear Restowned wispers in your ear. He still remembers demonstration, isn't he_ Bragtime! Last guy of Murica, RedVan (or something) with mouth as big as yours ended up with like 0-10, 0-12 score vs. me. It was sweet pre-Ascention with way less casuality. Gather company, and maybe i'll start to play as much Hawken as i played during the good old times just for you and co.

Deadmen_Tim, on May 19 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Looks like you didn't get it. Actually, you totally missed the point.  It's not about personalities.  It's about you believing that dodging in the air provides "ultra" risk reduction.  That's completely false.

Come play on East and we'll give you a demonstration.  I'm on West coast myself, so the pings won't be so terribly different.

Besides, your risk will be "ultra-low" with AC, so I'm sure you'll do great.

Hah.  Sorry.

A-a-and here you go even more for my person and continue to rephrase your already failed "argument". Basically you neglected Bruisers, Rocketeers, Preds, all EOC users and every C-Class.

And what about that_

Quote

Infinite kite never was the balanced thing in any game i played. Zero for Something exchanges never was the balanced thing in any game i played. And it never will be, otherwise this kind of a game will die. Oh, wait. Something happening to Hawken...

P.M. And dear Nept, feel free to PM me with all the words you have about me. Nothing censored in my PM, it's the only place with true Democracy. Just use @#$@#$.

Leonhardt, on May 19 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I dont think you have played with Nept much. He mostly plays B-classes and mains the SS.

Who cares_ Just poking random guy with pointy stick. Although i missed, reaction was great.

[Deadmen_Tim]

Bazookagofer, on May 19 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Ladies your both pretty now sit down and talk this through...

No, you have to tell who is prettier, or ladies will start fight. Dammit, too late.

Is it me or it's really hot in there_

[Leonhardt]

Deadmen_Tim, on May 20 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

Leonhardt, on May 19 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I dont think you have played with Nept much. He mostly plays B-classes and mains the SS.

Who cares_ Just poking random guy with pointy stick. Although i missed, reaction was great.

I should hope you do since your entire argument is based on Nept being a benefactor of A-class AC abuse as you were asserting. In a way it renders your entire argument moot.

EDIT: Although if I may, your argument is really rather poorly constructed and could, if reworded and less personal in nature, have legitimate concerns. Though I still fall on the same side as Nept on this argument. Air dodging doesn't make the player harder to hit than a ground target especially with remote detention weaponry and hitscan primaries. It also requires more fuel so your assertion that AC provides A-classes with "infinite kite" is just plain wrong. In fact with the proper set up you can attain "infinite kite" only by staying on the ground with A-classes since fuel cost in the air is very high by comparison and dodges on the ground cost no fuel.

Edited by Leonhardt, May 20 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Deadmen_Tim]

Leonhardt, on May 20 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

I should hope you do since your entire argument is based on Nept being a benefactor of A-class AC abuse as you were asserting. In a way it renders your entire argument moot.

Just read it again. This is only one fail of the Nept's "argument", i'll wait for him to answer. You're kinda calm and thus not that funny to talk with. I have a lot to say about AC and this is only one liiiiitle detail, if you'll think about AC more as not a biased person, you will naturally see more.

hint: you can try to read this thread from the beginning.

Edited by Deadmen_Tim, May 20 2014 - 09:12 AM.