41 replies to this topic

[SoldierHobbes11]

I really think the problem with the predator is more with other aspects of the mech, not the Breacher. Breacher is a great weapon the way it is, in my opinion, and giving it more damage would just make it overpowered. Most of the complaints about the Breacher are that it's too hard to hit with. Well it really should be. Increasing it's rate of fire would turn it into another Flak Cannon. The flak cannon got nerfed recently because it did high damage that was TOO EASY to land. I don't disagree that the Predator should be able to do more damage, but adding more damage to the Breacher isn't the way to go.

I like the idea of the surprise attack damage bonus, but I don't think it should be too much. I think the predator should be able to insta-gib a fully repaired reaper by landing direct hits with fully charged volley of the EOC Repeater and an EOC Predator mine with the surprise attack bonus at close to mid range. However, insta-gibbing with the Breacher I shouldn't be possible, as it's far easier to use than the Repeater. A surprise Breacher shot and mine + another direct mine hit should be able to finish off that same reaper.

Also, the way they could have the "surprise bonus" work is that it's applied as long as you are cloaked and for 1 second after you come out of the cloak when attacking. But of course the bonus doesn't apply if you get knocked out of stalker mode because you took damage.

I really don't think the Predator should be better at direct combat, it just needs to be better at what it does; SOOPRIZE BUTT SECKS!!!!! (quote by The TF2 Spy)

Edited by SoldierHobbes11, March 30 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

SoldierHobbes11, on March 30 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

I really think the problem with the predator is more with other aspects of the mech, not the Breacher. Breacher is a great weapon the way it is, in my opinion, and giving it more damage would just make it overpowered. Most of the complaints about the Breacher are that it's too hard to hit with. Well it really should be. Increasing it's rate of fire would turn it into another Flak Cannon. The flak cannon got nerfed recently because it did high damage that was TOO EASY to land. I don't disagree that the Predator should be able to do more damage, but adding more damage to the Breacher isn't the way to go.

I like the idea of the surprise attack damage bonus, but I don't think it should be too much. I think the predator should be able to insta-gib a fully repaired reaper by landing direct hits with fully charged volley of the EOC Repeater and an EOC Predator mine with the surprise attack bonus at close to mid range. However, insta-gibbing with the Breacher I shouldn't be possible, as it's far easier to use than the Repeater. A surprise Breacher shot and mine + another direct mine hit should be able to finish off that same reaper.

Also, the way they could have the "surprise bonus" work is that it's applied as long as you are cloaked and for 1 second after you come out of the cloak when attacking. But of course the bonus doesn't apply if you get knocked out of stalker mode because you took damage.

I really don't think the Predator should be better at direct combat, it just needs to be better at what it does; SOOPRIZE!!!!!

I agree. More to come but I can't write now, I'm in an Opra.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[PlagueDoctor]

I'm digging this loaded poll. No option for not wanting to buff_ That means that the people that don't want to buff it can't be represented.

[ASneakyFox]

im kind of curous, does anyone ever actually use "stalker" mode for actually hunting_ for me i use it for advance warning to run away (sometimes in combaintion of laying mines)

when i get kills with predator its just from the dumb luck of laying in fire with a teamate and happening to get the last hit. Its borderline closer to just stealing kills. Only time it can really be used for a "surprise attack" is if the enemy mech is already engaged in one of your friendly mechs and you can swoop in to get that kill steal.

its possible that none of these suggestions are the best ideas. but the predator does not live up to its name. sneaking up on another mech is suicide. any 1v1 with a mech is suicide. The only way to get "legit" kills with him is to put mines in a tight doorway and get people to chase you through it.

he needs work, in some direction. he shouldnt be a killing machine but he needs a proper place in the game.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

PlagueDoctor, on March 30 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm digging this loaded poll. No option for not wanting to buff_ That means that the people that don't want to buff it can't be represented.

Actually if you read this then you would see the link to the poll that allows you to vote on that.  Zzz. Asleep at the wheel

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 30 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

This is simply a poll. The discussion for this poll is in another castle.

  https://community.pl...f-the-predator/

Here you go.

[KylarxS]

ASneakyFox, on March 30 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

im kind of curous, does anyone ever actually use "stalker" mode for actually hunting_ for me i use it for advance warning to run away (sometimes in combaintion of laying mines)

when i get kills with predator its just from the dumb luck of laying in fire with a teamate and happening to get the last hit. Its borderline closer to just stealing kills. Only time it can really be used for a "surprise attack" is if the enemy mech is already engaged in one of your friendly mechs and you can swoop in to get that kill steal.

its possible that none of these suggestions are the best ideas. but the predator does not live up to its name. sneaking up on another mech is suicide. any 1v1 with a mech is suicide. The only way to get "legit" kills with him is to put mines in a tight doorway and get people to chase you through it.

he needs work, in some direction. he shouldnt be a killing machine but he needs a proper place in the game.

I use stalker mode for stalking all the time since it allows me to see through walls and so. I also have usually no problems with 1v1 battle IF I manage to lunch a surprise attack first (breacher + bout 2 land mines or 1 usually manages to lower a A-rank to 2/5 of its hp) Most of the times I would suffer heavy damage after the 1v1 though. Running away is usually not an option since its quite easy to be spotted in stalker mode especially if your opponent knows you're there. If you want to play predator you should usually take a big detour away from your team mates and go behind your opponent. From my experience try to target A-class damaged slightly_ mechs , C-class mechs on turret mode and medics. Never engage if there are more than 2 enemy in sight that aren't engaging with others since its suicide.

[AsianJoyKiller]

This poll is bad. It cannot accurately reflect the needs and wants of the everybody.
The only answers available are biased towards buffing everything.

There's not a single option for someone who doesn't think one of the elements needs a change, or even those who believe it may need a nerf.

Biased poll is biased.

[Crminimal]

I would also like The Predator to have more utility, more of an identity and presence in the various game modes.
But Health Damage and Speed is not the issue I feel.
A common suggestion that is not represented in the polls for example are debuffs, Slow effect on the mines. Or fuel drain on the Breacher. things of that nature.

I would like the Dynamic of engaging in combat from stealth to change somewhat to. The ability feels to passive imo.
I would like to emphasize the Risk/Reward ratio, to the point that instigating a fight from stealth would disable stealth for the full duration. Balancing the cloak like follows,

Activation Triggers a cooldown of 16 seconds before you can toggle it off again.
When the ability is off cooldown you can toggle it off with no penalty, maybe a 1 second cooldown to prevent double tapping.

Dealing or taking damage disable your cloak (if active) and triggers the full cooldown.
Thus placing mines and/or repairing would not make you visible.
Aware pilots can still localize where the sounds are coming from.

Edit: If there was a function to load more mines on The Eoc-P it should only be available for use while cloaked.
That way you could either choose to engage after toggling off the cloak for an easier time escaping or deal more burst and be vulnerable for a longer time. The same with stealth bonus damage.

Edited by Crminimal, March 31 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[KylarxS]

Crminimal, on March 31 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

I would also like The Predator to have more utility, more of an identity and presence in the various game modes.
But Health Damage and Speed is not the issue I feel.
A common suggestion that is not represented in the polls for example are debuffs, Slow effect on the mines. Or fuel drain on the Breacher. things of that nature.

I would like the Dynamic of engaging in combat from stealth to change somewhat to. The ability feels to passive imo.
I would like to emphasize the Risk/Reward ratio, to the point that instigating a fight from stealth would disable stealth for the full duration. Balancing the cloak like follows,

Activation Triggers a cooldown of 16 seconds before you can toggle it off again.
When the ability is off cooldown you can toggle it off with no penalty, maybe a 1 second cooldown to prevent double tapping.

Dealing or taking damage disable your cloak (if active) and triggers the full cooldown.
Thus placing mines and/or repairing would not make you visible.
Aware pilots can still localize where the sounds are coming from.

Edit: If there was a function to load more mines on The Eoc-P it should only be available for use while cloaked.
That way you could either choose to engage after toggling off the cloak for an easier time escaping or deal more burst and be vulnerable for a longer time. The same with stealth bonus damage.

If the slow effect were to be placed on the mines, then would the slow effect stack or not_ If it were to stack then if any of the enemy mechs were to step into a bunch of mines they would be stuck there for a few secs which is equivalent to dead. The game emphasis on dodging after all.

If the cloak were to be changed like what you said then we would have no chance of surviving at all. We after all have a slow firing weapon and a rather low pool of health for a class-B mech (I think_).

If we could apply mines while cloak then that would be kinda OP don't you think_ I could just stalk someone and shoot mines and his back (ground) or front. Since I don't deal a direct hit on the mech's body my cloak wouldn't disappear. If we were able to repair while cloak most new players will never be able to detect us while we're repairing lol.

[Crminimal]

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If the slow effect were to be placed on the mines, then would the slow effect stack or not_ If it were to stack then if any of the enemy mechs were to step into a bunch of mines they would be stuck there for a few secs which is equivalent to dead. The game emphasis on dodging after all.

Movement speed slow not locked in place, dodging would be unaffected.

As long as the slow was applied with placed mines only I think having some sort of diminishing return on the number of mines detonated would suffice.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If the cloak were to be changed like what you said then we would have no chance of surviving at all. We after all have a slow firing weapon and a rather low pool of health for a class-B mech (I think_).

1v1 should be a big hurdle. And in situations where you are likely to get hit by stray bullets, you should opt to stay out of cloak anyways. Well placed breacher shots are pretty nasty, pop in and out of cover and help focusing targets with some precision burst.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If we could apply mines while cloak then that would be kinda OP don't you think_ I could just stalk someone and shoot mines and his back (ground) or front. Since I don't deal a direct hit on the mech's body my cloak wouldn't disappear. If we were able to repair while cloak most new players will never be able to detect us while we're repairing lol.

Mine clusters are fairly easy to spot, and hard to prepare in a way you can utilize effectively in battle. Deliberate detonation could count towards cloak deactivation. In which case chasing your opponents 1v1 with mines from cloak would prove very ineffective. Valid as cover fire from cloak though.
Newer players need to be more aware as a general rule anyways, why not hammer down that point as predator.
You are after all pretty slow and vulnerable compared to other B and A mechs.

As a side note I would love to see a mine counter, to see the number of mines you currently have in play, So I can more easily determine what has been stepped on or detonated, when roaming the map.

Edited by Crminimal, March 31 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[KylarxS]

Crminimal, on March 31 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If the slow effect were to be placed on the mines, then would the slow effect stack or not_ If it were to stack then if any of the enemy mechs were to step into a bunch of mines they would be stuck there for a few secs which is equivalent to dead. The game emphasis on dodging after all.

Movement speed slow not locked in place, dodging would be unaffected.

As long as the slow was applied with placed mines only I think having some sort of diminishing return on the number of mines detonated would suffice.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If the cloak were to be changed like what you said then we would have no chance of surviving at all. We after all have a slow firing weapon and a rather low pool of health for a class-B mech (I think_).

1v1 should be a big hurdle. And in situations where you are likely to get hit by stray bullets, you should opt to stay out of cloak anyways. Well placed breacher shots are pretty nasty, pop in and out of cover and help focusing targets with some precision burst.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

If we could apply mines while cloak then that would be kinda OP don't you think_ I could just stalk someone and shoot mines and his back (ground) or front. Since I don't deal a direct hit on the mech's body my cloak wouldn't disappear. If we were able to repair while cloak most new players will never be able to detect us while we're repairing lol.

Mine clusters are fairly easy to spot, and hard to prepare in a way you can utilize effectively in battle. Deliberate detonation could count towards cloak deactivation. In which case chasing your opponents 1v1 with mines from cloak would prove very ineffective. Valid as cover fire from cloak though.
Newer players need to be more aware as a general rule anyways, why not hammer down that point as predator.
You are after all pretty slow and vulnerable compared to other B and A mechs.

As a side note I would love to see a mine counter, to see the number of mines you currently have in play, So I can more easily determine what has been stepped on or detonated, when roaming the map.

I meant if say the movement speed decrease was stackable then say it reduces the movement speed by 10% for each mine detonated then if the enemy mech were to hit all 10 mines would that mean the enemy mech would not be able to move at all_ (10% x 10) or say a progressive reducement (10% from current movement speed for each detonation) and would the decreases in movement speed affect the dodging speed as well_

If say you were at the back lines of your enemy mechs and one of them was retreating due to injury and you fired at him. You may be able to kill him but wouldn't the other enemy mechs notice you then_ Since you have to wait for a full skill cooldown. BTW what you said has nothing to do with what I said.

Think of it as the enemy mech is walking forward and you just shoot mines in front and the back of him (ground) while staying at his back (or sides). You wouldn't need to cluster the mines and your cloak won't be interrupted and you won't need to manual detonate as well.

[Crminimal]

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

I meant if say the movement speed decrease was stackable then say it reduces the movement speed by 10% for each mine detonated then if the enemy mech were to hit all 10 mines would that mean the enemy mech would not be able to move at all_ (10% x 10) or say a progressive reducement (10% from current movement speed for each detonation) and would the decreases in movement speed affect the dodging speed as well_

That was what I was trying to adress, Diminishing return meaning the first few mines would carry large portions of the slowing effect, Additional mines would add less and less to the slow,  Say the max was 50% slow, then mines would stack like 10, 10, 10, 9, 5, 2, etc%
I don't know how easy this would be to code, if you can even add effects like this to overlapping instances of AOE. But I think it would be easier to tweak and balance as opposed to a fixed value for each individual mine.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

If say you were at the back lines of your enemy mechs and one of them was retreating due to injury and you fired at him. You may be able to kill him but wouldn't the other enemy mechs notice you then_ Since you have to wait for a full skill cooldown. BTW what you said has nothing to do with what I said.

Given that your stealth toggle is not on cooldown (anticipation) you can toggle it off and attack then toggle it back on again. Forfitting any potential bonus damage for a swift and sneaky blow.
You could also use this to confirm the type of mech and gauge how much hp it has before making your decision to commit.
You stated that my example of the cloak would be underpowered compared to how it is now, but your example was based on a misunderstanding, which I hope I managed to clarify in this example. It would just be different,  and to my mind more "active/tangible" then the current iteration.

KylarxS, on March 31 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Think of it as the enemy mech is walking forward and you just shoot mines in front and the back of him (ground) while staying at his back (or sides). You wouldn't need to cluster the mines and your cloak won't be interrupted and you won't need to manual detonate as well.

The enemy would just turn around, see your not so invisible mug standing around looking not so innocent and blast away. In a 1v1 situation this ability would be moot. However in the fray it could be devastating as cover fire.

Edited by Crminimal, March 31 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[KylarxS]

Quote

Given that your stealth toggle is not on cooldown (anticipation) you can toggle it off and attack then toggle it back on again. Forfitting any potential bonus damage for a swift and sneaky blow.
You could also use this to confirm the type of mech and gauge how much hp it has before making your decision to commit.
You stated that my example of the cloak would be underpowered compared to how it is now, but your example was based on a misunderstanding, which I hope I managed to clarify in this example. It would just be different,  and to my mind more "active/tangible" then the current iteration.

Then if you were able to hit and cloak and spam it like that wouldn't it become overpowered instead_

Quote

The enemy would just turn around, see your not so invisible mug standing around looking not so innocent and blast away. In a 1v1 situation this ability would be moot. However in the fray it could be devastating as cover fire.

If you manage to land a few hit with the mines in a 1v1 you would most probably be able to finish him off anyway. And what I meant was yes in a clash then you could just plant the mines around them and they can't be bothered to find you because they are engaging.

[Crminimal]

Quote

Then if you were able to hit and cloak and spam it like that wouldn't it become overpowered instead_

No since there is a cooldown triggered whenever you turn on cloak.
And any damage taken or dealt disables your cloak.
So you can do this once per cooldown cycle.
Given that no one is alerted to your presence.

Quote

If you manage to land a few hit with the mines in a 1v1 you would most probably be able to finish him off anyway. And what I meant was yes in a clash then you could just plant the mines around them and they can't be bothered to find you because they are engaging.

People aren't that predictable or oblivious in my experience, perhaps in very low matchmaking but consider the following, Air combat makes your mines pretty ineffective, Stray bullets will knock you out of stealth,  And if you score any direct hit, or detonate your mines you knock yourself out of stealth. Risk vs Reward.

Edited by Crminimal, March 31 2014 - 11:00 PM.

[KylarxS]

Quote

People aren't that predictable or oblivious in my experience, perhaps in very low matchmaking but consider the following, Air combat makes your mines pretty ineffective, Stray bullets will knock you out of stealth,  And if you score any direct hit, or detonate your mines you knock yourself out of stealth. Risk vs Reward.

That are pretty oblivious actually..assuming that they are engaging that is xD This mech wasn't meant for air combat anyway and assuming you're at the backline or side lines you won't get hit by stray bullets (pray)

[Lightangel112]

I will stop posting in this preticular thread now and do my suggestions in this thread now https://community.pl...er/page__st__60

[craftydus]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 31 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

This poll is bad. ...blahblahblah
Biased poll is biased.

Post more vids teaching us what struggling to get a 1k with a predator looks like.

[EliteShooter]

IT'S FINE.

[Joelnator]

The only thing i want it's to remain in staker mode when taking damage, just as the other actions taking damagee would leet hin appear for 3 sec.