135 replies to this topic

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

I love playing as the Predator it's way fun and very different; but I must say that I'm very disappointed in the Predator's limited utility.

     The only game mode that I have found that the Predator can be somewhat successful on is Missile Assault. He is too under powered for Deathmatch, and can only Kill Steal (for the most part) on Team Deathmatch. In Siege mode, I find the Predator to be largely useless, as well as Co-op.

     Here are the things I'd like to discuss and suggest:

1) Problem: The Predator's Movement Speed is too slow when not using Boosters. Often times, opportunities are missed because by the time you see them, there isn't enough time to get into position and lay your mines.
    
     Suggestion: Perhaps when he enters Stalker Mode, he could receive a Movement speed buff. This buff would end upon breaking Stalker mode, either by receiving damage or by generating heat/boosting. This would give the player's a exhilarating "On the Hunt" feel, which in turn would empower players to make bolder moves rather than sitting the whole game out, waiting and hoping for someone to run over their mine patch.

2) Problem: The Predator's Weapons don't do enough damage. The Breacher is Powerful, but not enough so as to facilitate a quick take down. It is my understanding that the Predator is meant to kill isolated mechs that have wandered off from the group or have been caught alone. However, with his current setup, the Predator just doesn't have damage to give him that ruthless jungle assassin feel.

     With the Predator's low Armor Score and limited damage output, this leads many of his intended targets to either escape him or, more often, to outright turn the tables and kill him. This, in turn, leads players to feel that what they are piloting is closer to that of a cloaked honeybee with x-ray vision rather than that of a viscous and feared assassin. This causes Predator players to be overly cautious, and often end up missing out on a lot of exciting game play in exchange for not dying to a ambush gone wrong. (Most of them do at this point)

  Suggestion: Perhaps we could let the first attack, when breaking from Stalker mode, have a damage buff for being a "Surprise Attack". This will allow players a better chance at securing kills against those players who wander away from team play. So that way, not only will it give players the feeling of being a BAMF jungle hunter, but also will encourage team play and sticking together in the opposing team.

3) Problem: EOC Predator: The EOC Predator is a interesting and unique weapon that allows a player to lay mines and set traps. However, there are many problems with this weapon which I will breakdown into subfields.

A) Takes too long to make a decent minefield.

B) Mine's Explosive radius and area of proximity are both too small, so even when a mech approaches, they more often will miss the minefield entirely.

C) Mines placed on walls and ceilings are largely useless.

Suggestions:

A) Consider, giving the EOC Predator an additional charge up function like the Breacher, that when released scatters 6-10 mines on the ground/walls etc. This way a Predator could more quickly set up ambushes. This would alleviate the extremely high time demands for mining an area. This in turn would help the player to not get bogged down in a commitment to a minefield that took a full 30 sec to setup with no guarantee that anyone will even come that way. The slow windup to use this function would prohibit spamming it in a fight but still allow a predator to maintain that utility of setting traps while actively in combat

B) Perhaps Increasing the explosive radius and the Proximity detection field will help to get rid of the "All or Nothing" feel that Mines currently have. With a larger proximity field and effective explosive radius, this would allow for a hapless mech to receive at least some damage when moving near mines. rather than lucking out and missing them entirely. Even if it isn't much damage. Some is better than nothing at all. This will help to curb those huge let downs that Predator players feel when an enemy mech misses their field. by an inch and crosses unharmed.

C) Consider giving the mines a bouncing Bettie effect. This way when a mech enters a mined area, whether it be wall ceiling or floor, the mines will leap up and out before exploding. This would allow mines to be more versatile and open up more placement options. This in turn would help to give the Predator Mech a bit more versatility as well.

    These are my suggestions. Please Comment and make suggestions of your own. Thank you.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[RunaPanda]

TL;DR

The Pred is a trap mech, not a CQC fighter, or any other type of fighter. Correctly placed mines can nearly one shot an A class and mortally wound a B and C. Add on the power of the breacher when charged and you got one fierce trap laying mech. If your not finding it useful/powerful/etc your using it in the wrong fashion. Pred is a strategy mech, not a dumbfire/hail mary mech, you just need to be in the right meta mentality to use it correctly.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Thank you. And you are probably right. However, with laying traps as a sole means of killing severely limits his utility, especially when more than one opposing team member shows up. If the Pred were given more abilities to function as an assassin as well as trapping foes, I think it would help to alleviate some of his incompatibility issues with other game modes.

What do you think of my suggestions to changes to the EOC_

[RunaPanda]

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 27 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Thank you. And you are probably right. However, with laying traps as a sole means of killing severely limits his utility, especially when more than one opposing team member shows up. If the Pred were given more abilities to function as an assassin as well as trapping foes, I think it would help to alleviate some of his incompatibility issues with other game modes.

What do you think of my suggestions to changes to the EOC_

Again it's a trap mech, it's not meant to be near by when the fuzzy bunny hits the fan. If you place your mines correctly you can capture two mechs in one blast. On point A, best place is in a corner and cluster them together. If someones running to repair and they think it's safe, BAM they trigger your mines and that's a kill for you. Everything that the pred is about screams strategy/tactics, a good pred pilot often uses it's ability a lot, it's ability is really useful 3 times over.

1. Your stealthed as long you don't boost. making your radar signature as long as your not near a scanner virtually zero.

2. You can see enemies through walls, guiding your teammates in and around them to get the best vantage point.

3. Unlike the Infiltrator, you can still shoot while in stealth, but 5 seconds later your back in stealth. Leaving the one you shot at wondering, "wtf where'd that come from_"

[Fstroke]

Predator is strong. EOC P I think has the second highest dps of all secondaries in the game. You have indefinite invisibility and a built in wall hack. That and im lead to believe its the second fastest b class behind the raider.

And the breacher destroys people. Its just a different unique playstyle.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

^ The breacher only finishes ppl. It does to a lot of dmg but its low ROA makes it only useful as a executor. Even to an A class. a PB shot only does a third of his health. In a fight, you either need pinpoint accuracy or to get in way close and PB him in the face. And with a 2.5 second reload time, you'd better not miss. I don't know where all this faith in the breacher comes from. You're not the only one who thinks of the breacher like this too. But I just don't see it.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 27 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Hastur609]

RunaPanda, on March 27 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 27 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Thank you. And you are probably right. However, with laying traps as a sole means of killing severely limits his utility, especially when more than one opposing team member shows up. If the Pred were given more abilities to function as an assassin as well as trapping foes, I think it would help to alleviate some of his incompatibility issues with other game modes.

What do you think of my suggestions to changes to the EOC_

Again it's a trap mech, it's not meant to be near by when the fuzzy bunny hits the fan. If you place your mines correctly you can capture two mechs in one blast. On point A, best place is in a corner and cluster them together. If someones running to repair and they think it's safe, BAM they trigger your mines and that's a kill for you. Everything that the pred is about screams strategy/tactics, a good pred pilot often uses it's ability a lot, it's ability is really useful 3 times over.

1. Your stealthed as long you don't boost. making your radar signature as long as your not near a scanner virtually zero.

2. You can see enemies through walls, guiding your teammates in and around them to get the best vantage point.

3. Unlike the Infiltrator, you can still shoot while in stealth, but 5 seconds later your back in stealth. Leaving the one you shot at wondering, "wtf where'd that come from_"

This still leaves the Predator far too situational. He already pointed out the flaws in the Pred's main method of offense, the traps.

Too slow to deploy said traps, not reliable for getting kills especially when they're so obvious most of the time or can be missed entirely because the unwary mech took a step too far to the left or right.

This is an ambush class but the Predator only really shines when the game goes completely the pilots way and people keep walking into all its traps or its always there to finish off low health targets.

However the game isn't always going to go exactly your way.

Yes, we KNOW the Predator is a trap mech, you repeatedly reiterating this isn't necessary, but due to the nature of this game it could be argued it just doesn't fit in as well as other mechs and needs some tweaks to allow the Pred to fit into the faster pace of the game while still allowing it it's unique playstyle.

You'd think as an ambush/trap mech the Predator would be very well suited for taking advantage of the situation when things hit the fan, yet usually this mech is woefully prepared for most circumstances in the game that aren't dictated by pure chance when that chance goes the pilots way, as there's plenty of chance encounters that lead to you taking stray fire, unknowingly walking into the face of a miffed Scout or Berserker....

Your list of pros he has towards Pred's stealth don't make up for the numerous shortcomings this mech has.

Stealthed as long as you don't boost_ Great, but experienced players can still pick the Predator out on quite a few maps, especially against dark back-grounds. I myself have found the shimmer of the camo to be quite noticeable in most open areas. The second the Predator is found, especially by the entire team, enjoy your respawn timer.

X-Ray vision is nice but in most randomly joined matches you won't have much luck trying to genuinely coordinate with other players. You can only have a squad of 3 if you intend to game over TeamSpeak of Mumble with pals and due to the nature of the game such levels of coordination the Pred can provide aren't always needed. Again making this a situational mech.

Yes you can fire while stealthed and then wait for a moment to re-cloak. That's great. But if a rock so much as pings off your hull it's back to a 32 second cool-down and your one saving grace has left you prone and naked against mechs that actually excel at killing other players with weapons that don't rely solely on the situation magically going your way.

This game is still Beta, not everything is set in stone and some Mechs really need looked at. Plenty of the community feels the Pred is one such mech, and from personal playtime with it I'm agreeing with those on the same fence.

Feedback on this mech is going to be important and there will always be players who disagree, with that being said I don't see why you've taken such a strong initiative to shoot down any suggestions that'd genuinely improve the Predator.
Even vets I've played with who main it have admitted to me that this mech has plenty of shortcomings they'd like to see addressed, high skill ceiling or no.

It's entirely unnecessary for you to keep trying to hammer on the OP's argument with nothing but "No. It's supposed to be this way and play only this way." and you don't even concede to any points or offer suggestions that'd improve the mech anyway.

I'm not trying to attack you but what gives_

Shorter Summary

In my opinion the Predator's roll is still far too situational to make it truly shine unless the situations in-game all go 100% your way, which is flat out unrealistic. Its weapons lack versatility and general usability that leave it painfully vulnerable and lacking when in direct combat in most cases beyond finishing off a wounded straggler you may or may not ever get to stumble across in a match.
This mech may have some fantastic burst DPS but with the slow deployment of mines and individual pucks not packing too much of a wallop and the Breacher's slow RoF anything the Pred can do a mech more geared towards actually engaging the enemy can and will do better.
The Camo is nice but even that has shortcomings that can be exploited by more experienced pilots.
All in all the Predator in my and other player's opinions fits an odd niche that doesn't mesh well with the pace of the game.

Edited by Hastur609, March 27 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

So it seems the majority of ppl agree that the Pred is Underwhelming. So, what suggestions do you have to fix it_ Or, what tweaks would you make to my suggestions_

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

For me, I feel that one of the great short comings of the Pred is that it is difficult to quickly get into position to set up an ambush. Especially when you see it coming and need to react quickly.

That's why I feel that there should be faster movement speed while stalking and an instant minefield mechanic with the EOC Pred. What do you think about that_

[Lightangel112]

Health needs a slight armour buff.
ROF needs a buff for both weps.
Damage to breacher needs a buff.
EOC P needs a speed buff too.
Predator needs more air dynamics.
Shield piercing should not reduce dmg.
Stealth should be deactived on X dmg.

Edited by Lightangel112, March 27 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[nepacaka]

my suggestion about buff, added Predator ability detonate his mines, while he used boost
https://community.pl...-questions-why/
weapon/hp/speed buf no need in my opinion

Edited by nepacaka, March 27 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[RunaPanda]

Lightangel112, on March 27 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Health needs a slight armour buff.
ROF needs a buff for both weps.
Damage to breacher needs a buff.
EOC P needs a speed buff too.
Predator needs more air dynamics.
Shield piercing should not reduce dmg.
Stealth should be deactived on boosting.
and when taken X amount of damage.

Breacher is a charge weapon it doesn't need a buff.
EOC P trades speed for infinite mine time. Other wise it'd be the standard repeater.
Shield piercing is justified, the shield is an electromagnetic barrier meant to STOP projectiles. Obviously letting something go through it is going to lose impact power.
Stealth deactivates temporarily while boosting. It's stealth also deactivates the moment it's hit, it's Infiltrator your confusing this bit with.

Your basically requesting the Hawken team to completely change the loadout of the Pred from a tactical mech to a substandard SMG/AR/Vulc + TOW. Which is what the game does not need, since those mechs are already way overplayed.

[Stingz]

Reducing the number of maximum mines while boosting damage per mine could help.

[RunaPanda]

Stingz, on March 27 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Reducing the number of maximum mines while boosting damage per mine could help.

It could work, but even then a properly placed trap utilizing all mines can deal roughly 400 damage, instapopping any A class that haphazardly runs across it.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Stingz, on March 27 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Reducing the number of maximum mines while boosting damage per mine could help.

Yeah, I also have thought about this as well. My only fear with this idea would be that mine fields would be smaller giving less chance for impact; which is why I didn't put it in the OP. But I do like the idea. maybe if the blast radius was increased..

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Lightangel112, on March 27 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Health needs a slight armour buff.
ROF needs a buff for both weps.
Damage to breacher needs a buff.
EOC P needs a speed buff too.
Predator needs more air dynamics.
Shield piercing should not reduce dmg.
Stealth should be deactived on boosting.
and when taken X amount of damage.

From this I assume that you mean that the Pred wouldn't de cloak from the first hit it received, but only after he received a certain amount of dmg.

I also like this idea as well. Too many times ive been decloaked by random stray fire from across the map, resulting in my exposure and obliteration. I think that this is a great idea actually.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

RunaPanda, on March 27 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Lightangel112, on March 27 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Health needs a slight armour buff.
ROF needs a buff for both weps.
Damage to breacher needs a buff.
EOC P needs a speed buff too.
Predator needs more air dynamics.
Shield piercing should not reduce dmg.
Stealth should be deactived on boosting.
and when taken X amount of damage.

Breacher is a charge weapon it doesn't need a buff.
EOC P trades speed for infinite mine time. Other wise it'd be the standard repeater.
Shield piercing is justified, the shield is an electromagnetic barrier meant to STOP projectiles. Obviously letting something go through it is going to lose impact power.
Stealth deactivates temporarily while boosting. It's stealth also deactivates the moment it's hit, it's Infiltrator your confusing this bit with.

Your basically requesting the Hawken team to completely change the loadout of the Pred from a tactical mech to a substandard SMG/AR/Vulc + TOW. Which is what the game does not need, since those mechs are already way overplayed.

Actually. My idea with the Pred is to make it an extremely bursty single target nuker with a high cooldown until attack readiness. No need to increase the ROA of the breacher. If anything I would actually Slow it down- A LOT. and increase its dmg a alot as well.

And a spread mechanic for the EOC Pred would allow for faster ambush deployment/ set up. think the trade off for such an ability should be something like Instant 50% of your max in heat. so you can do it twice before over heating.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 27 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Stingz]

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 27 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Actually. My idea with the Pred is to make it an extremely bursty single target nuker with a high cooldown until attack readiness. No need to increase the ROA of the breacher. If anything I would actually Slow it down- A LOT. and increase its dmg a alot as well.

I think you want the EOC Raider, has enough burst this patch to 1-shot a Tech with EOC+MIRV at point blank.
(Blitz makes point blank really easy to reach)

Edited by Stingz, March 27 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[angryhampster]

i would like a faster fire rate on the EOC predator.

[DFTR]

Lightangel112, on March 27 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Health needs a slight armour buff.
ROF needs a buff for both weps.
Damage to breacher needs a buff.
EOC P needs a speed buff too.
Predator needs more air dynamics.
Shield piercing should not reduce dmg.
Stealth should be deactived on boosting.
and when taken X amount of damage.

Some of the above but not all or we have the uber mech and then everyone would play Predator
I'd prefer a little less heat w/ EOC-P and a better cloak (being able to boost/dodge and avoid hellfire).  
I don't care if boosting/dodging make me more visible for a second or two, but I want to stay off radar.