135 replies to this topic

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Additionally I think that mines should stick around until you respawn, instead of exploding upon your death. What do you think about that_

I know every Predator player has had those moments where he had a great field set up that would have gotten revenge on his killer, except they detonate the instant you die... And that makes me a Sad Panda.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 28 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Xacius]

Copypasta from my Steam Guide:

The main problem with the Predator is that it was designed to have a very passive role in combat. Lay traps, play it safe, and analyze the enemy team's position with your ability. If VOIP was actually working, I could see it being much more useful in random pubs.

At first, the mech seemed very underwhelming. This was especially true when mechs had a much larger health pool. Since all of the Predator's primary weapons have decent burst, but relatively low DPS, its best role on the playing field was that of the passive trap-layer. The problem is that allies can blow up your traps by accident, and any splash can render a cleverly-placed minefiled useless in all but an instant. Also, while you're laying down a trap-field, your allies will most likely engage the enemy long before you're done "setting the stage."

Since the Steam update, I've found the Predator's role far more intimidating, especially against A's. The Breacher can do an upwards of 144 burst in close range, and its secondary packs a punch if and only if you land all of your shots. Protip: target the feet for a chance at mine damage in-case you miss. Against air targets, be patient and wait for key movement patterns that the enemy might make. Against unpredictable targets, just run. You will lose in a straight up engagement against most direct-assault mechs unless you:

• have a distinct health advantage
  
• perfectly land all of your shots
  
• get the surprise attack (thereby causing a health advantage)
  
• potato

I recommend engaging the enemy from mid-range with the charged the Breacher. Feel free to lay down EOC-P mines (your secondary weapon) in between Breacher shots for max effectiveness. Be sure to avoid damage as much as possible, and don't ever be afraid to disengage. As you're boosting away, take short breaks and line the trail behind you with EOC-P mines.

The reason why the Predator falls short in a direct engagement is because its secondary weapon lacks both burst and reliability. TOWs and GLs hit for considerable damage (125 each) and have an air-burst mechanic that contributes to their reliability. Is your shot off by just a smidge_ Air-burst to secure the damage. The EOC-P doesn't have air burst and only deals 55 damage per direct hit. Though to be fair, it does have a faster firing rate. All-in-all, you have to be far more accurate with the weapon to deal the same amount of dps as a TOW or GL. If you maximize its effectiveness, you're actually doing slightly more. It also has the trap capability, which doesn't really make up for its direct-combat flaws.

I really want the devs to buff the EOC-P projectile speed or reduce its heat buildup to give the Pred a bit of a combat buff. I hate the passive playstyle.

[PlagueDoctor]

Plagues guide for playing the predator:

1) get invisible
2) go behind their lines
3) a) find repairing guy, blast him
b)if no repairing guy, find squishy and blast him, he wont die right away, but you'll have a huge advantage
4) a) if you remain unseen, go back stealth and wait for the next prey (if in DM) if in objective modes, tell your team to bumrush the point
b)if you're seen, get the heck out of there, because no one can 1v3+, ESPECIALLY when you're in the WORST position.

If you're having trouble with flying A classes, use breacher. If you're fighting primarily ground mechs, use EOC. I prefer HE grenade, but your choice of items is up to you.

Regarding the EOC-P, it seems weird because every other secondary is burst (excluding G2) but in a support role (again, in objective modes) you can plop them down on a point from a distance while pushing the point. I would like to see some kind of way to lay down a set of mines (say 4, for example) but only while invisible or out of combat.


E: Despite its solitary role on the battlefield, the Predator is near useless without a team to help.

Edited by PlagueDoctor, March 28 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Again we have another vote for the EOC-P to have the ability to lay multiple mines simultaneously.

I think we have a winner EOC-P needs a charge function.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

What do you think about the Surprise Attack bonus damage when breaking from Stalker Mode_ Yea or nay_

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 28 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[nepacaka]

Quote

potato

like a man from Belarus country, i can't ignore this
+1
(notes: Belarus - one of the countries occupied the first place in the world for human consumption of potatoes XD)

[Eliziel]

All I know is, I rarely see predator's I matches, and I don't think I've ever been killed by one (not sure) .... I'll have to start watching for it specifically.

[ASneakyFox]

my vote is to 1- increase the damage of the breacher by a small amount. 2- make the uncharged breacher have some use somewhere in some situations.
3- increase mine range (including vertically) and increase damage by about 20%... but reduce the number of mines you can deploy at once to just 5.

nothing is more silly than being a stealth based mech but sitting there for like half a minute making a loud PANG PANG PANG PANG... PANG PANG PANG PANG sound to broadcast to everyone that youre setting a trap. setting traps should be done more discretely along the lines of "ok someone is coming, im putting down 2-3 mines here, i gotta lure them in to it".

the breacher should then be something that you use to lure people in to your traps, or once they hit your trap, you use the breacher to finish them off.

Edited by ASneakyFox, March 28 2014 - 07:57 PM.

[Onstrava]

Eliziel, on March 28 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

All I know is, I rarely see predator's I matches, and I don't think I've ever been killed by one (not sure) .... I'll have to start watching for it specifically.

I'll look for you on the field, I don't really have much of an issue killing people with my predator but thats because I don't use the breacher. I use the Eoc repeater and HE charge to assassinate people at mid distance and close range if I need to. But if you guys/gals want to buff the predator, hell I'm all for it. Make my day.

Edited by Onstrava, March 28 2014 - 09:11 PM.

[KylarxS]

What I would suggest would be to:
1. Increase breacher damage by a lot or give an extra bonus damage when firing from stealth mode
2. Allow multiple mines to be set at once in return of a nerf to the damage
3. Increase the walking speed when cloaked
4. Slight increase in health_
5. If weapons get boosted or extra damage granted when in stealth mode then increase weapon cool down or increase the time taken to go back into invi state.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Good God.
Who in their right mind thinks the Breacher needs a buff_ That thing is ridiculously powerful. I seriously can't believe some people are implying that it's useless uncharged. I'm convinced they must not know how to use the Predator...

In my mind, the Pred's greatest flaws have to do with the EOC-P.
A slow projectile speed, high heat generation and the inability to lay multiple mines at once make it a sub-par weapon in even light combat, and then even if your just acting as supplementary damage. Hell, even if you're not in combat, the fact you have to lay down mines 1 by 1 means that somebody can happen upon you (not hard, given how loud the EOC-P is) before you have a decent trap set.

But the Breacher having problems_
What a joke. If I had that instead of the Flak cannon on a Scout or Brawler, the killing sprees I'd go on would be ridiculous.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

I agree with kylarxS. Though it is true that the breacher does do a lot of dmg. It doesn't even do 1/2 Dmg to an A class in one shot.

A tow rocket can do around half Dmg even without scoring a direct hit, and it's only about .5 sec slower than the breacher. And it is way easier to score hits. The explosion and manual detonation capabilities give it some of the best dmg assurance in the game.

The breacher on the other hand is unwieldy at best, requiring pinpoint accuracy. It's ROA is only a hair faster than the Tow with much less dmg and far less dmg assurance. If used in it's burst mode, it's ROA slows down even more to be about on par with the Tow Rocket with EVEN LESS damage. The only advantage is that it can be piercing and does true damage, ignoring a small portion of a mechs armor.

Improving the EOC P aka landmine gun will only do so much. You still have to get some chump to run over them before a random stray shot detonates them. The EOC P is more of a utility weapon and can't be relied on for kill securing.

As it stands now, the breacher is underwhelming and gives a very poor chance at securing kills - even if you do land your hits. It takes around 6-7 fully charged shots to take down a B class assault mech like the recruit.

Where as a recruit only needs 3-4  hits/near-hits with a Tow to kill most B's and 2-3 to kill A's. And that's not mentioning the assault rifle.

The breacher needs a buff.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

ASneakyFox, on March 28 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

my vote is to 1- increase the damage of the breacher by a small amount. 2- make the uncharged breacher have some use somewhere in some situations.
3- increase mine range (including vertically) and increase damage by about 20%... but reduce the number of mines you can deploy at once to just 5.

nothing is more silly than being a stealth based mech but sitting there for like half a minute making a loud PANG PANG PANG PANG... PANG PANG PANG PANG sound to broadcast to everyone that youre setting a trap. setting traps should be done more discretely along the lines of "ok someone is coming, im putting down 2-3 mines here, i gotta lure them in to it".

the breacher should then be something that you use to lure people in to your traps, or once they hit your trap, you use the breacher to finish them off.

I agree with most of what you said. But I think that lowering the amount of mines you can lay would make it even more difficult to get someone to hit them.

The only way I would totally agree with you,  would be to increase the blast radius and increase the proximity detection area as well.

Make them less like Snap Pops and more like actual mines.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I really feel like you're not using the Pred correctly. I'm playing in a 2000+ MMR range, and I am having none of the trouble you seem to be having with the Breacher, which means that the problem is the pilot, and not the weapon.

In fact, since you mention "true damage", I can tell you don't even fully understand the basic mechanics of the game. There is no such thing as "armor" in the game. Armor and health are the same thing. Unless you are using turret mode or the Bruiser's special ability, you either take full damage, or you take no damage.

Also, it doesn't compare with the TOW because it is a PRIMARY weapon. It is supposed to be inferior, and if you're only using your primary only to try and secure kills, it should be hard to do and underwhelming. If you can't figure out how to use both your weapons under all circumstances, then you should be failing, especially in direct combat.

Your grasp on Hawken's basic mechanics is very shakey.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 29 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 29 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

I really feel like you're not using the Pred correctly. I'm playing in a 2000+ MMR range, and I am having none of the trouble you seem to be having with the Breacher, which means that the problem is the pilot, and not the weapon.

In fact, since you mention "true damage", I can tell you don't even fully understand the basic mechanics of the game. There is no such thing as "armor" in the game. Armor and health are the same thing. Unless you are using turret mode or the Bruiser's special ability, you either take full damage, or you take no damage.

Also, it doesn't compare with the TOW because it is a PRIMARY weapon. It is supposed to be inferior, and if you're only using your primary only to try and secure kills, it should be hard to do and underwhelming. If you can't figure out how to use both your weapons under all circumstances, then you should be failing, especially in direct combat.

Your grasp on Hawken's basic mechanics is very shakey.

Nope I understand it just fine. Thetrue damage that I was referring to was in reference to those mecho that can go into turret mode. but the way the predator is setup is backwards. The primary weapon does more than the secondary and even though the primary is unreliable to secure kills the secondary is even more unreliable. it has a quicker rate of fire but extremely slow projectile speed which forces you to switch from firing your Breacher directly at the person to lead shotting with your EOC P. it's completely ineffective and ridiculous. the Breach is closer to a secondary then the EOC. just because the breach is on your primary arm and registered as a primary doesn't mean it actually is. Look at the EOC. it has a faster firing rate and does less damage just like an assault rifle and the Breach has hey rate of fire and damage rate comparable to the toW rocket.

Just because the devs call it the primary doesn't mean that it is.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

For all intents and purposes the Pred is set up backwards with its primary and secondary on the wrong arms, and neither are effective enough.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 29 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[mccrorie]

RunaPanda, on March 27 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

TL;DR

The Pred is a trap mech, not a CQC fighter, or any other type of fighter. Correctly placed mines can nearly one shot an A class and mortally wound a B and C. Add on the power of the breacher when charged and you got one fierce trap laying mech. If your not finding it useful/powerful/etc your using it in the wrong fashion. Pred is a strategy mech, not a dumbfire/hail mary mech, you just need to be in the right meta mentality to use it correctly.

C'mon, people. This is a really bad meta for Hawken. It sounds nice in theory, but is a gimmick in practice. Just look at most of the maps.

also

FLYING ROBOTS

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

^Legit

[Coboxite]

One thing I like to add is how awkward it is control wise. Seriously, a chargeable weapon with a sustained weapon with the detonator mapped to middle mouse_ Am I who thinks this is incredibly backwards_

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

You're right. They are not at all easy. The Tow rocket is mapped tow either the middle or the right. But the EOC P is mapped only to middle.

I don't know about you but i haven't used 3 fingers at once since the good olé Gunz days

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 29 2014 - 02:47 PM.