135 replies to this topic

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

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Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 29 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Zylox, on March 29 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

I think this thread was much more productive the last time I posted something. Now it's just degenerating into "I'm no good with the predator, it needs a buff" and "I'm already good with the predator, it's fine the way it is."

Come on people. The thing has a good role to play, but it doesn't play it perfectly. Anyone who is saying anything at all in this game is perfect at this point in development needs a serious wake-up call. The predator, like all things Hawken, is a work in progress, and needs tweaking and balancing in order to bring it into the role it was designed to fill.

Stop bragging and bickering about personal skill and focus on what should be balanced from an objective point of view. If you can't do that, you need a time-out to cool your head.

The Pred needs help yes, but not in the form of a Breacher buff.
That's the point I'm making.

And the reason I'm going on about personal skill is because people keep making assertions about problems the Breacher has, that the Breacher doesn't actually have. If it actually had those problems, then I wouldn't be able to do what I do with it. It's not about bragging. It's about getting people to realize where the problem lies isn't with the weapon, but with themselves. It's a valid point to make, because you can't balance a game around doing things wrong.

It's not like the old Alpha version of the EOC, that was so hard to use even the best players in the game couldn't use it effectively. The Breacher is a perfectly viable weapon in the hands of even mid-range MMR players, and is in line with the other primary weapons. If you try using any other primary without using your secondary, then of course you're going to have a bad time. Primaries are not designed to take down mechs by themselves.

The trouble is that, especially for less skilled players, the secondary on the Pred is extremely troublesome to use

If you can't land your shots with that, then you're losing out on a lot of damage. Of course the Breacher isn't going to cut it if you don't have a reliable secondary. But if the EOC-P was more reliable in combat, then the Breacher would be more than adequate.

Despite the fact I'm going on about personal skill, it is about being objective.
It's about not letting your personal performance with the Breacher cloud your judgement of where it sits balance-wise, and take a look at what is causing the problems.

Quite frankly, it's easier for someone who is more skilled and more competent with the weapon to see than it is for someone who isn't. If you can use the Breacher properly, it's easy to see that it's not the problem.

[Onstrava]

I think the majority of us can agree that the pred damage is fine, I agree with the previous post about the increase to the EoC p velocity and rate of fire on breacher. I would still like to see something done about the deployment of the mines but I definitely agree that the weapons need an increase to the projectiles speed.

Edited by Onstrava, March 29 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[KylarxS]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 29 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

KylarxS, on March 29 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

You're saying you can kill consistently with the breacher right_

Yes, and at least do heavy damage regularly, enough to justify my existence as damage support.

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From what I've played so far what you're saying is you somehow manage to hit your opponents every time with it charged

Why would I always be charging the Breacher_ That's a silly thing to do.
Besides that, it's not that hard to be accurate with the charged Breacher. I regularly harass snipers into running away using charged shots. It's hitscan and very accurate. Doesn't get much easier than that.

So you're saying you don charge the breacher and head to close combat right_ Then later on you say you can easily out maneuver an A-class using sustained weapons_ Is the sniper you're killing so weak then he rather run then fight head on against you_ lol

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and they walk into the minds you lay every time because they're blind.

Or because I know where to place my mines.
Or because I regularly land direct hit shots with the EOC-P.

If you can regularly land direct shots with EOC-P then you must be really good. Or maybe they don't know how to avoid or fly_ So a bunch of blinking mines on the fall doesn't attract suspicions...

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Seeing as you probably have no chance of hitting an A-class if they were flying and a moderate chance of hitting an A-class who actually knows how to dodge instead of walk consecutively at most you would manage to hit 2/5 of your breachers charged shot at a lowered health opponent which in most case is still not enough to kill him.

Perhaps you're this bad at aiming and target prediction.
I'm not.

How often do you manage to hit a dodging scout_ A video for me to watch maybe_ I could learn from you

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From my experience, if the person you're fighting have a vulcan like weapon you don't really stand a chance. Just my 2 cents.

From my experience, if the enemy is using sustained weapons, that makes it all the more easier to kill them. I just keep backing around corners and laying mines as they go, then when they do make it around the corner, I nail them with the Breacher. They need to be in LoS for extended periods of time to kill me, but I don't need to see them for more than a split second.

Again they could just fly past your mines or if possible the walls/boulders. If you play against someone experience do you think they would stay on the ground often to step on land mines_

[KylarxS]

Oh in case you were wondering about personal performance...I would say I'm at least average or maybe better a bit_  ScreenShot00001.bmp   2.64MB   21 downloads

[AsianJoyKiller]

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Again they could just fly past your mines or if possible the walls/boulders. If you play against someone experience do you think they would stay on the ground often to step on land mines_

They're going to magically fly past mines aimed to collide directly with their mech_
Mines that will never touch the ground, wall, or any surface other than the target mech_
They are somehow going to magically phase through mines that have specifically be calculated to hit them in the torso while they are moving_

Tell me, how do you just "fly past" something that has been timed and aimed so that it hits you directly and you can't do anything about it_

If I'm playing against someone experienced, I'm not going to give them the choice to avoid the mines.
I am shooting the mines directly at them, whether they're in the air or on the ground. I will not use my EOC-P as a trap weapon at that point, I will use it like a direct hit weapon.

[Onstrava]

When the predator first came out I was thinking it would have this already in it. The mines would have more of a vertical explosion as oppose to it's current one which is a horizontal explosion, think of it like the "Bouncing Betty" from WW2. This way players couldn't simply jump over your mines. Better yet give the predator an option to shoot horizontal mines (explode horizontaly;aoe) and vertical mines that explode more upward, which would hit flying or jumping opponants at a certain height. Simply have the mines have different sensors for each mine set. Aoe mines have the current in game distance and vertical mines have less aoe sensor but has more vertical sensors and explode upward.

Edited by Onstrava, March 30 2014 - 12:41 AM.

[Onstrava]

Let me say this for those who do not know what a "Bouncing Betty" is, it's also known as the S-mine which was made during WW2. It was a presure mine, once touched or disturbed would jump into the air and explode in mid air sending shrapnel in all directions. All the devs would need to do is change the behavior of the current in-game mines and have them jump into the air and explode in mid air like the bouncing betty. The damage would be the same but the mines would have a larger vertical sensor and jump into the air to hit targets trying to simply jump over them. When the mines are on a wall they will jump into the direction of the top of the mine is pointed at. Example of jumping off a wall  ||[]----->{explode}, if the mine is on the roof it will jump down and explode. This is a simple fix for a simple problem, if they jump over your mines to dodge them, then why not simply have your mines jump to catch them.

Edited by Onstrava, March 30 2014 - 01:39 AM.

[KylarxS]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 30 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Again they could just fly past your mines or if possible the walls/boulders. If you play against someone experience do you think they would stay on the ground often to step on land mines_

They're going to magically fly past mines aimed to collide directly with their mech_
Mines that will never touch the ground, wall, or any surface other than the target mech_
They are somehow going to magically phase through mines that have specifically be calculated to hit them in the torso while they are moving_

Tell me, how do you just "fly past" something that has been timed and aimed so that it hits you directly and you can't do anything about it_

If I'm playing against someone experienced, I'm not going to give them the choice to avoid the mines.
I am shooting the mines directly at them, whether they're in the air or on the ground. I will not use my EOC-P as a trap weapon at that point, I will use it like a direct hit weapon.

So you're saying in the heat of the battle, you, manage to aim so accurately each and every of your shot to hit the enemy body and there won't be anybody else shooting at you from some where else or take account that the opponent will actually fire at you as well. You can basically dodge and shoot slow moving mines at your opponent that you are rather sure would hit most of the time. I would really like to watch a video of you playing if you don't mind.

[Lightangel112]

Maybe less mines, and more damage plus more projectile speed to much the breachers charged shot imo. So maybe 5 mines in total but can do 110 damage and have a proxy detonation near targets even in mid air and of course more walking speed and air dynamics. HP is debatable, cause there have been times where 510 was enough cause i didnt get hit in a 1v1 when using cover.

Edited by Lightangel112, March 30 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

So you're saying in the heat of the battle, you, manage to aim so accurately each and every of your shot to hit the enemy body and there won't be anybody else shooting at you from some where else or take account that the opponent will actually fire at you as well. You can basically dodge and shoot slow moving mines at your opponent that you are rather sure would hit most of the time. I would really like to watch a video of you playing if you don't mind.

Who said there's not going to be anybody shooting at me_
You sure do make a lot of assumptions.

For the record, I have a 65% accuracy rating wih my Eoc P, which isn't  bad when you consider I don't lay as many traps as most preds do.

Here's the main thing, the reason why I probably don't have as much trouble as many people in this thread seem to be having.
I've been playing hawken since alpha, for something near two years. I am intimately familiar with how it works and the common patterns he people use when fighting.
And this means I instinctively know how to fit the predator into that picture. So while I may not have the best aim or the quickest reaction time, when I get into a fight, I know what I need to do to win it. I am aware of all the little things about my own play style, like exactly how over aggressive I am and how I'm very bad against face hugging, which means I am very able to leverage situations to my strengths.

It also means I'm very aware of when things are my fault, and when it's the mechanics that are the problem.

[KylarxS]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 30 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

So you're saying in the heat of the battle, you, manage to aim so accurately each and every of your shot to hit the enemy body and there won't be anybody else shooting at you from some where else or take account that the opponent will actually fire at you as well. You can basically dodge and shoot slow moving mines at your opponent that you are rather sure would hit most of the time. I would really like to watch a video of you playing if you don't mind.

Who said there's not going to be anybody shooting at me_
You sure do make a lot of assumptions.

For the record, I have a 65% accuracy rating wih my Eoc P, which isn't  bad when you consider I don't lay as many traps as most preds do.

Here's the main thing, the reason why I probably don't have as much trouble as many people in this thread seem to be having.
I've been playing hawken since alpha, for something near two years. I am intimately familiar with how it works and the common patterns he people use when fighting.
And this means I instinctively know how to fit the predator into that picture. So while I may not have the best aim or the quickest reaction time, when I get into a fight, I know what I need to do to win it. I am aware of all the little things about my own play style, like exactly how over aggressive I am and how I'm very bad against face hugging, which means I am very able to leverage situations to my strengths.

It also means I'm very aware of when things are my fault, and when it's the mechanics that are the problem.

And you make it sound like you have godly accuracy which is why I would so like to watch how you play.

[AsianJoyKiller]

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

And you make it sound like you have godly accuracy which is why I would so like to watch how you play.

Well first off, I'm currently posting from an iPad, so recording a video an d uploading it is clearly not an option.

Secondly, did your read what I wrote_ 65% accuracy.
Even if you made the assumption I always go for direct hits and never lay traps, I don't see how you could ever possibly get "godly" from 65%. It's completely irrational and downright silly.

[Onstrava]

Can we get back on topic here_ This isn't the Jerry Springer show.

[KylarxS]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 30 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

And you make it sound like you have godly accuracy which is why I would so like to watch how you play.

Well first off, I'm currently posting from an iPad, so recording a video an d uploading it is clearly not an option.

Secondly, did your read what I wrote_ 65% accuracy.
Even if you made the assumption I always go for direct hits and never lay traps, I don't see how you could ever possibly get "godly" from 65%. It's completely irrational and downright silly.

Quoting from what you said earlier They're going to magically fly past mines aimed to collide directly with their mech_
Mines that will never touch the ground, wall, or any surface other than the target mech_
They are somehow going to magically phase through mines that have specifically be calculated to hit them in the torso while they are moving_ You say it like you have some godly accuracy which is why i said that.

Onstrava, on March 30 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

Can we get back on topic here_ This isn't the Jerry Springer show.

My apologies :3

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Yes Asian. You've told us you don't agree that the Pred needs a buff. You insulted me repeatedly and have done nothing but brag about your skills and put other players down. Then back peddled and said you weren't bragging,  then continued to brag and treat people like they're stupid. Please don't post on this thread anymore. All you are doing is derailing to conversation insulting others and making inflammatory remarks.  I've been more than tolerant. You've said your piece. You're done. If you post again, I will ask a moderator to block you from this thread.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 04:55 AM.

[DFTR]

AJK,

  A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I feel I'd learn a lot watching from your perspective.  If your system is no longer able to handle it, add me to an ingame friend, and I can record playing as the Beserker.

[KylarxS]

DFTR, on March 30 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

AJK,

  A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I feel I'd learn a lot watching from your perspective.  If your system is no longer able to handle it, add me to an ingame friend, and I can record playing as the Beserker.

I actually find that I have better chance against C-rank mechs since they can't really dodge and easier to backstab them most of the times :3

[Stingz]

DFTR, on March 30 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

AJK,

  A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I feel I'd learn a lot watching from your perspective.  If your system is no longer able to handle it, add me to an ingame friend, and I can record playing as the Beserker.

It can help to dive behind cover against flying mechs, limited fuel means they can't stay up for long. Also flying means either eating a TOW rocket or AC-dodging(that burns lots of fuel).

[KylarxS]

Stingz, on March 30 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

DFTR, on March 30 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

AJK,

  A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I feel I'd learn a lot watching from your perspective.  If your system is no longer able to handle it, add me to an ingame friend, and I can record playing as the Beserker.

It can help to dive behind cover against flying mechs, limited fuel means they can't stay up for long. Also flying means either eating a TOW rocket or AC-dodging(that burns lots of fuel).

We predators don't have a TOW rocket and some smaller obstacles can be flied over.