135 replies to this topic

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

I think he was speaking generally. Generally speaking, when you fly you're likely to catch a Tow Rocket in the face.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

KylarxS, on March 30 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

DFTR, on March 30 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

AJK,

  A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I feel I'd learn a lot watching from your perspective.  If your system is no longer able to handle it, add me to an ingame friend, and I can record playing as the Beserker.

I actually find that I have better chance against C-rank mechs since they can't really dodge and easier to backstab them most of the times :3

I find this true as well. Especially when they use turret mode, as they tend to ignore individual attacks while attempting to rain down the pain, which makes "backstabbing" a lot easier to do.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Backstabbing... maybe that could be a thing. If you strike from behind you get bonus dmg or score a critical hit of some sort.

Any thoughts_

Keep in mind I don't expect this to be in addition to the changes we've already discussed, this is just another idea.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

PLEASE DELETE YOUR VOTES AND REVOTE IN THE MODIFIED POLL.

Thank you.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[Bazookagofer]

Came to late to tell you guys to stop measuring *****... ok.

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 30 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Backstabbing... maybe that could be a thing. If you strike from behind you get bonus dmg or score a critical hit of some sort.

Any thoughts_

Keep in mind I don't expect this to be in addition to the changes we've already discussed, this is just another idea.

NO, turret mode is already bad enough this would just put another 240 mm cannon shell in its back. The problem lies with the P-Eoc having impractical utilization in most situations.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Bazookagofer, on March 30 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Came to late to tell you guys to stop measuring *****... ok.

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 30 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Backstabbing... maybe that could be a thing. If you strike from behind you get bonus dmg or score a critical hit of some sort.

Any thoughts_

Keep in mind I don't expect this to be in addition to the changes we've already discussed, this is just another idea.

NO, turret mode is already bad enough this would just put another 240 mm cannon shell in its back. The problem lies with the P-Eoc having impractical utilization in most situations.

I agree with you to the point that I retract my previous suggestion

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Alright guys, I made a new poll to more accurately reflect the views of the players.

https://community.pl...f-the-predator/

[Stingz]

Breacher is good, but the awful spread uncharged makes anything but point blank a huge gamble in terms of damage.
Almost 50% more spread than Flak Cannon. (14 vs 9.5 of Flak)

(Decreasing the spread to a more reasonable level is probably enough for Breacher.)

Edited by Stingz, March 30 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[KylarxS]

Stingz, on March 30 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Breacher is good, but the awful spread uncharged makes anything but point blank a huge gamble in terms of damage.

Which is why I suggested an increase in damage and in return reduce the firing rate. That way more people would actually use the charge function and not need enter melee distance combat.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

I want to talk about the proposed bouncing Betty feature. It has been talked about somewhat, but not really in detail.  Do you think that it would be better to add a BB effect or just increase the blast radius and proximity sensitivity_ At the least, a BB effect would very visually dynamic, and add a nice "Oh, Sh-*BOOM*" Situation. Maybe if the charge ability is added to the EOC P that scatters multiple mines, maybe the charged mines would be normal but the mines that are shot one by one will have the BB effect added.  What do you think_

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Lightangel112]

I placed my new vote cheers.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Lightangel112, on March 30 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I placed my new vote cheers.

thanks man, when I decided to modify the new poll it rolled over all the votes into the new categories. Obviously not correctly displaying peoples opinions. the votes for yes and no should be accurate though. I didn't fiddle with them.

Edited by Loklov_Krein_Rah, March 30 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[SoldierHobbes11]

I've posted this on the other thread about the same topic, but I'd just like to reiterate it here.

I really think the problem with the predator is more with other aspects of the mech, not the Breacher. Breacher is a great weapon the way it is, in my opinion, and giving it more damage would just make it overpowered. Most of the complaints about the Breacher are that it's too hard to hit with. Well it really should be. Increasing it's rate of fire would turn it into another Flak Cannon. The flak cannon got nerfed recently because it did high damage that was TOO EASY to land. I don't disagree that the Predator should be able to do more damage, but adding more damage to the Breacher isn't the way to go.

I like the idea of the surprise attack damage bonus, but I don't think it should be too much. I think the predator should be able to insta-gib a fully repaired reaper by landing direct hits with fully charged volley of the EOC Repeater and an EOC Predator mine with the surprise attack bonus at close to mid range. However, insta-gibbing with the Breacher I shouldn't be possible, as it's far easier to use than the Repeater. A surprise Breacher shot and mine + another direct mine hit should be able to finish off that same reaper.

Also, the way they could have the "surprise bonus" work is that it's applied as long as you are cloaked and for 1 second after you come out of the cloak when attacking. But of course the bonus doesn't apply if you get knocked out of stalker mode because you took damage.

I really don't think the Predator should be better at direct combat, it just needs to be better at what it does; SOOPRIZE BUTT SECKS!!!!! (quote by the TF2 Spy)

Edited by SoldierHobbes11, March 30 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

I agree with pretty much all of this, except the Breacher part. The only time I use the "flak" function is if they get in my face b/c. 80% of the time I charge it. Secondly, we're not saying it has to be as fast as the flak cannon.  Any amount of speed increase would be welcome and would help out a lot. IMO. Other than that our idea is the same

[AsianJoyKiller]

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 30 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Yes Asian. You've told us you don't agree that the Pred needs a buff. You insulted me repeatedly and have done nothing but brag about your skills and put other players down. Then back peddled and said you weren't bragging,  then continued to brag and treat people like they're stupid. Please don't post on this thread anymore. All you are doing is derailing to conversation insulting others and making inflammatory remarks.  I've been more than tolerant. You've said your piece. You're done. If you post again, I will ask a moderator to block you from this thread.

First off, I literally have said that I do believe the Predator needs help. I've said the BREACHER does not need a buff. The Predator does not consist entirely of the Breacher, so saying the Breacher doesn't need a buff is not the same as saying the Predator doesn't need a buff.

Please do not lie about what I've said. You say I'm being inflammatory, but several times people have entirely made up things that I've supposedly said, or implied certain things I've said can't be true, or that the problem lies with the Breacher, just because they can't do it, regardless of whether or not others are able to.

I have not insulted. You have merely decided to take valid questions about whether or not you're using the mech correctly as insults. In some cases, you have not communicated what you wanted to say in a clear manner using the correct terminology and it looks like your saying things that are just plain wrong. If I tell you are wrong because you miscommunicated, that is also not an insult.

I've explained why personal skill is relevant to the discussion.
You absolutely can NOT balance a game around doing things wrong, because then you create mechanics that become extremely overpowered in the hands of people who weren't using the weapons wrong.

Personal skill is relevant, because if you're not using the the Breacher right, of course it is going to seem problematic and underpowered. But if you're using it correctly, you can that it is a very powerful weapon that can nearly take out mechs on their own and that the problems with the Pred's damage output are with it's unreliable secondary.

Just because you don't like my opinion doesn't mean I'm insulting people or that I'm derailing the topic.

DFTR, on March 30 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

AJK,

A lot of times the airborne mechs are also shooting at you and I find it hard to win a DPS race against Beserkers/Assault or even Rocketeer.  When you get a chance can you post a youtube video_  

I'll get some clips up later today or tomorrow.

Here's the deal. If you are trying to win a DPS race, then you will lose most of the time. You should lose most of the time, because you're not playing in your role. It's like trying to attack at mid-long range with a Technician.

I'm not saying that I can, or you should be able to, constantly win against direct attack mechs.
But I'm saying it's entirely possible to kill, make people retreat, or do heavy damage to other mechs if you end up in direct combat on a regular basis.

But if you're trying to win a DPS race, then You're Doing It Wrong®.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 30 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Asian, I asked you not to post here anymore.

You want some examples_


“Perhaps you're this bad at aiming and target prediction.
I'm not"- Insulting and bragging

“ I am having none of the trouble you seem to be having with the Breacher, which means that the problem is the pilot, and not the weapon” Insulting,bragging and inflammatory

“Your grasp on Hawken's basic mechanics is very shakey.”- Insulting, inflammatory

“So it's not a primary just because you say so, despite the devs of the game saying it is and the fact that it fills all requirements of being a primary_ That's not how it works.

Just because it doesn't behave like you believe a primary should act, does not mean it is not a primary weapon. That's not something you get to decide.

Are you capable of recording video_ I really want to see you playing Predator, because I know that I can do fairly well in direct combat with the Pred, and I don't have nearly as many problems as you seem to.

The mere fact that it doesn't cause that many problems for me points to most of your problems being pilot error, and not Breacher failings. If it were the Breacher, I simply wouldn't be able to perform well with it.” Bragging , argumentative, your aim here is to put down. it's obvious to all readers. you speak with an air of superiority and look down on others.

“They're going to magically fly past mines aimed to collide directly with their mech_
Mines that will never touch the ground, wall, or any surface other than the target mech_
They are somehow going to magically phase through mines that have specifically be calculated to hit them in the torso while they are moving_

Tell me, how do you just "fly past" something that has been timed and aimed so that it hits you directly and you can't do anything about it_

If I'm playing against someone experienced, I'm not going to give them the choice to avoid the mines.
I am shooting the mines directly at them, whether they're in the air or on the ground. I will not use my EOC-P as a trap weapon at that point, I will use it like a direct hit weapon. “--Bragging, argumentative and contemptuous.


” For the record, I have a 65% accuracy rating wih my Eoc P, which isn't  bad when you consider I don't lay as many traps as most preds do."--Bragging

"Here's the main thing, the reason why I probably don't have as much trouble as many people in this thread seem to be having.
I've been playing hawken since alpha, for something near two years. I am intimately familiar with how it works and the common patterns he people use when fighting.
And this means I instinctively know how to fit the predator into that picture. So while I may not have the best aim or the quickest reaction time, when I get into a fight, I know what I need to do to win it. I am aware of all the little things about my own play style, like exactly how over aggressive I am and how I'm very bad against face hugging, which means I am very able to leverage situations to my strengths.”--Bragging.

Everything you say is argumentative, full of contempt, and shows an effort to put others down. Not a single constructive or friendly suggestion anywhere. Once again. Please stay off this thread. I will get a Moderator to block you from this thread. You contribute nothing helpful. I don't like bullies or trolls.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Loklov_Krein_Rah, on March 30 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Everything you say is argumentative, full of contempt, and shows an effort to put others down. Not a single constructive or friendly suggestion anywhere. Once again. Please stay off this thread. I will get a Moderator to block you from this thread. You contribute nothing helpful. I don't like bullies or trolls.

Can you explain to me, in a logical manner, why skill is not a factor_
Can you explain, logically, how doing something wrong doesn't matter when talking about balancing_

If I told you that a screwdriver wasn't working and it needed to be improved, but I wasn't turning it in the right direction or using the wrong side of it, don't you think that would matter_ Don't you think that would factor in to whether or not my opinion was right or wrong_

Also, before you involve moderators, you may want to consider the fact that your last post was one giant violation of the forum rules.

[BoompigXD]

I can quickly see where this train is going, and when it gets there, it's gonna be a HUGE wreck

[Loklov_Krein_Rah]

Perhaps. But it would be a shame. There are so many good ideas here.

[PlagueDoctor]

So I think before the derail, we boiled it down to the EOC-P needed some trap laying capabilities_ Perhaps a fast fire rate out of combat to get traps down quick_