54 replies to this topic

[SoldierHobbes11]

Reapers will tell you to switch out from this weapon as soon as you can and Sharpshooters will tell you to not even get the weapon. As far as I've seen, the overall feeling of the AM-SAR is a rather negative one. Most feel that it fills the same role but is vastly out performed by the Hawkins RPR and the SA-Hawkins on the reaper mech and sharpshooter mech, respectively. Most of the complaints come from the Sharpshooters, saying that a prestige weapon that is functionally similar to their starter weapon but is totally inferior in most respects is less than prestigious. This is very true. The difference in weapon stats and functionality of both the SA Hawkins and the AM-SAR are pratically non existant. However, the semi-automatic ONLY function of the AM-SAR set it back lightyears from the SA-Hawkins. Those are the complaints against the AM-SAR. It's not just my own opinion, but the shared opinion of many others who have played the sharpshooter and reaper extensively.

I started this poll to see what we, as the Hawken community, feel should be done with the weapon. Personally, I don't think it should be left as is but neither should it be removed. I think with a few changes, it can be more unique and playable. What I personally feel should be done with the weapon is to make it a 3-round burst weapon. The reason being, that just making it full-auto will just turn it into a second SA Hawkins instead of a unique weapon with a different playstyle option like all the other weapons in the game provide. I think it should be 3-round burst rifle, similar to Halo's Battle Rifle. As for the exact stats, I'm not too sure of. I personally feel like it should have more sustained but less burst damage than a slug rifle, while still having more burst and less sustained than the SA Hawkins or RPR on the reaper. The refire rate between trigger pulls would be similar to the Reflak's and the timing between the 3 bullets would be similar to the timing between the pucks of the EOC repeater. The weapon itself would work best at mid range, with moderate close range viability and some long range viability due to it having a spread similar to the Assault Rifle. I think this would help it do be a more unique weapon that's viable and balanced in the current meta of Hawken.

Feel free to leave your comments and suggestions below.

[renynzea]

I have begun to use the AM-SAR more and more on my reapers (especially reaper smurf).  The Hawkins RPR fall-off makes the weapon less effective at range.  The slug is powerful but slow, and the DPS is out-classed when mechs get all up close and personal.  The AM-SAR is a decent weapon.  It can chew a mech up reasonably quick.  It is great for heat management.  It is good at close or medium range (whereas the RPR is more close range).  It is easy to hipfire.

I agree, the only real downside is that it is semi-auto.  It makes zero sense, considering both the slug and sabot are automatic.  Possible solutions I would be fine with:

1) Allow the weapon to be charged.  Charging the weapon increases the effective range and damage.  This would be useful for burst damage.  It might also make the weapon line up better with the sabot rifle for peekaboo.  Burst when you need it, sustained when you don't.  The breacher already does this, so it should be reasonably simple to add (unless they want to do an animation change).

2) Reduce the fire rate and increase the damage.  Suggested numbers would be a 0.5 or 0.6 fire rate, with damage scaled to match its current output.  Reduce the amount of clicking required to use the weapon.  Still a precision weapon, but not near as annoying.

3) Say fuzzy bunny and make it full-auto like everything else.  I mean, you can already bind it to the scroll wheel, so it's not like you can't make it automatic using in-game settings.

Not so sure I would be a fan of the burst.  Sounds cool, but the damage and recharge would be comparable to the slug rifle, so it wouldn't offer much in the way of alternatives.  It would simply be a closer range slug.

I like having the AM-SAR as the mid-range weapon on the reaper.  It is less useful (borderline worthless) on the SS due to how much more effective and easier to use the SA Hawkins is on that mech.  If they went with # 1, however, the versatility might make it worth using.  Downside being the weapon requires a little more skill and effort to use.

Edited by renynzea, April 28 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[WarlordZ]

renynzea, on April 28 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

1) Allow the weapon to be charged.  Charging the weapon increases the effective range and damage.  This would be useful for burst damage.  It might also make the weapon line up better with the sabot rifle for peekaboo.  Burst when you need it, sustained when you don't.  The breacher already does this, so it should be reasonably simple to add (unless they want to do an animation change).

I've considered this one myself.  The current AM-SAR doesn't feel like it has much of a place in Hawken, really.  Making it a charging weapon would allow it to be second-best at both DPS and burst compared to other sniper weapons, while still good enough at both to be useful.  A slight firing rate decrease/damage increase would also be nice, just to make it more comfortable to use.

[Rydiak]

I love the AM-SAR.  It is everything in a weapon that I like.  Slow firing with a big hit, but with a fire-rate above that of a bolt action (Slug Rifle).  I definitely see its place between that of the Slug Rifle (very big hit, very slow fire-rate) and the Hawkins-RPR (semi-fast fire rate, not as big hit).  That being said, I use a macro on my mouse to fire the AM-SAR repeatedly without the need to spam-click Left Mouse.  If the AM-SAR was slowed down a bit more (like a .4 to .5 re-fire rate) and given increased damage (40-45), it would further solidify its place as a semi-automatic rifle.  However, with the ability to macro it for automatic fire and its almost identical fire-rate to the SA-Hawkins, it does seem a bit pointless in comparisons.

Edited by Rydiak, April 29 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Battlesbreak]

On my part I don't see anything bad on AM-SAR exception as that steam blows on your HUD all the time when shooting while zoomed in if it would be removed I would love to use AM-SAR still. I would love to see it able to be burst fired (something like FAMAS on CoD4 or just anyweapon what shoots 3 bullets at every trigger pull)

[SoldierHobbes11]

renynzea, on April 28 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

I have begun to use the AM-SAR more and more on my reapers (especially reaper smurf).  The Hawkins RPR fall-off makes the weapon less effective at range.  The slug is powerful but slow, and the DPS is out-classed when mechs get all up close and personal.  The AM-SAR is a decent weapon.  It can chew a mech up reasonably quick.  It is great for heat management.  It is good at close or medium range (whereas the RPR is more close range).  It is easy to hipfire.

I like having the AM-SAR as the mid-range weapon on the reaper.  It is less useful (borderline worthless) on the SS due to how much more effective and easier to use the SA Hawkins is on that mech.

I totally agree with you. It's alright on the reaper as your experience clearly shows and many others will attest to, but the main complaint about it is the redundancy on the sharpshooter. I personally feel that they don't need to get rid of the weapon, they just need to change it's function a little bit so it's not redundant on the Sharpshooter, but still is useful with the Reaper.

Quote

I agree, the only real downside is that it is semi-auto.  It makes zero sense, considering both the slug and sabot are automatic.  Possible solutions I would be fine with:

1) Allow the weapon to be charged.  Charging the weapon increases the effective range and damage.  This would be useful for burst damage.  It might also make the weapon line up better with the sabot rifle for peekaboo.  Burst when you need it, sustained when you don't.  The breacher already does this, so it should be reasonably simple to add (unless they want to do an animation change).

2) Reduce the fire rate and increase the damage.  Suggested numbers would be a 0.5 or 0.6 fire rate, with damage scaled to match its current output.  Reduce the amount of clicking required to use the weapon.  Still a precision weapon, but not near as annoying.

3) Say fuzzy bunny and make it full-auto like everything else.  I mean, you can already bind it to the scroll wheel, so it's not like you can't make it automatic using in-game settings.

Not so sure I would be a fan of the burst.  Sounds cool, but the damage and recharge would be comparable to the slug rifle, so it wouldn't offer much in the way of alternatives.  It would simply be a closer range slug.

I like the charge idea. I think it would be interesting if charging the weapon gives it the 3-round burst. They could increase the spread on the weapon a little so auto firing it wouldn't be as accurate with good dps, but charging has better accuracy with more burst.

And the reason for the 3-round burst is to make it unlike the slug rifle. For the slug rifle, all you have to do is land the one shot for it's max damage. With the 3-round burst, you have to make sure all 3 shots hit for the maximum possible damage. In fact, since the full damage is a little harder to land, I think the charged AM-SAR should do more than the slug. After all, the 3 bullets don't all land at the same time, there's a small space between the bullets. If you've ever used the EOC Repeater, you know what I mean. And again, it makes it feel different from the other weapons.

[SoldierHobbes11]

Rydiak, on April 29 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I love the AM-SAR.  It is everything in a weapon that I like.  Slow firing with a big hit, but with a fire-rate above that of a bolt action (Slug Rifle).  I definitely see its place between that of the Slug Rifle (very big hit, very slow fire-rate) and the Hawkins-RPR (semi-fast fire rate, not as big hit).  That being said, I use a macro on my mouse to fire the AM-SAR repeatedly without the need to spam-click Left Mouse.  If the AM-SAR was slowed down a bit more (like a .4 to .5 re-fire rate) and given increased damage (40-45), it would further solidify its place as a semi-automatic rifle.  However, with the ability to macro it for automatic fire and its almost identical fire-rate to the SA-Hawkins, it does seem a bit pointless in comparisons.

I never said that it was a bad weapon in itself, at least I didn't mean to. Like you said, on the reaper, it fits very nicely. However, the main issue was the redundancy on the sharpshooter. That's where most of the negativity is coming from.

[Rydiak]

SoldierHobbes11, on April 30 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Rydiak, on April 29 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I love the AM-SAR.  It is everything in a weapon that I like.  Slow firing with a big hit, but with a fire-rate above that of a bolt action (Slug Rifle).  I definitely see its place between that of the Slug Rifle (very big hit, very slow fire-rate) and the Hawkins-RPR (semi-fast fire rate, not as big hit).  That being said, I use a macro on my mouse to fire the AM-SAR repeatedly without the need to spam-click Left Mouse.  If the AM-SAR was slowed down a bit more (like a .4 to .5 re-fire rate) and given increased damage (40-45), it would further solidify its place as a semi-automatic rifle.  However, with the ability to macro it for automatic fire and its almost identical fire-rate to the SA-Hawkins, it does seem a bit pointless in comparisons.

I never said that it was a bad weapon in itself, at least I didn't mean to. Like you said, on the reaper, it fits very nicely. However, the main issue was the redundancy on the sharpshooter. That's where most of the negativity is coming from.

Agreed.  Decent weapon, just redundant.  Especially when you consider how easy it is to macro it to make it automatic-fire, it needs something to set itself apart from SA-Hawkins.

[BigLag]

My opinion on the Am-sar is that its the best weapon for the reaper in its intended role as mid range sniper..

It has good hit scan, damage and accuracy in and out of zoom.

If they could make it auto instead of forcing the left click To shoot every time.

It is a decent weapon that can be used on ranged targets and has the rate of fire to make it somewhat forgiving  in cqb.

Id use it as my go to weapon if not for the mouse click-a-thon..

Edited by BigLag, May 04 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[ValkMight]

The AM SAR is a good weapon in the right hands, but unfortunately that hands ain't mine.

I don't quite like the amount of smoke/steam/whatever that is coming out from the gun when I rapid fire it; and you can't say I'm not supposed to rapid fire when I'm using the ability on the reaper which gives close to perfect accuracy for a short time, why waste it.

Also the clicking, arugh the clicking turned me off to playing this mech. Almost every other weapon in the game has auto mode when the LC is held down even though they perform like semi auto weapons, take shotguns for example; those already fire slow but still have auto fire attached to them for lazy people like me to hold the button down.

I'm more for keeping it but fixing said issues above.

[kingalbert2]

i think it should be like the pistol in tf2.
you can fire by holding down the mounse button, but faster if you ram it. any fire rate above the auto rate will however, negatively affect precision
along with this its dmg should go up just a little bit

[renynzea]

kingalbert2, on May 05 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

i think it should be like the pistol in tf2.
you can fire by holding down the mounse button, but faster if you ram it. any fire rate above the auto rate will however, negatively affect precision
along with this its dmg should go up just a little bit

The AM-SAR is the reaper's best mid-range weapon.  Decreasing accuracy is counter to that role.  If you want a close range weapon with bad accuracy and/or damage at mid to long range use the Hawkins RPR.

[Rydiak]

ValkMight, on May 05 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Also the clicking, arugh the clicking turned me off to playing this mech. Almost every other weapon in the game has auto mode when the LC is held down even though they perform like semi auto weapons, take shotguns for example; those already fire slow but still have auto fire attached to them for lazy people like me to hold the button down.

Agreed!  Even the Slug Rifle is automatic (albeit really slow).  When a mouse macro is needed to make a weapon more usable it is time for that weapon to change.

[Frisbee_Player]

I like the idea of a 3 round birst on the SAR... as a reaper pilot (rank 6) I ditched the SAR for the RPR as soon as I got rank 3, the clicking was too much, especially in cqc. I didn't know about the full-auto macro thingy until later, and I had already come to love the RPR by then, but an overhaul on the SAR's play style would certainly make me want to try it out again.

[ninjab3ta]

I actually kind of like it the way it is, because it forces heat management. That being said, it does need some differentiation from the SA-Hawkins. And the gunsmoke is quite annoying when you're scoped in.

Perhaps we have a different version for the Sharpshooter, with that fun charge-shot idea_ Though that could make the Slug Rifle obsolete, depending on charge time, refire, and damage of charged shot.

[Battlesbreak]

ninjab3ta, on May 07 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

I actually kind of like it the way it is, because it forces heat management. That being said, it does need some differentiation from the SA-Hawkins. And the gunsmoke is quite annoying when you're scoped in.

Perhaps we have a different version for the Sharpshooter, with that fun charge-shot idea_ Though that could make the Slug Rifle obsolete, depending on charge time, refire, and damage of charged shot.

As I mentioned on one of my posts. If it would have alternate firing mode. One for single fire and one for burst fire. What do you think about that kind of change_ Btw. Off topic your profile pic reminds me about one person from other game.

Edited by Battlesbreak, May 09 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[ninjab3ta]

Battlesbreak, on May 09 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

ninjab3ta, on May 07 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

I actually kind of like it the way it is, because it forces heat management. That being said, it does need some differentiation from the SA-Hawkins. And the gunsmoke is quite annoying when you're scoped in.

Perhaps we have a different version for the Sharpshooter, with that fun charge-shot idea_ Though that could make the Slug Rifle obsolete, depending on charge time, refire, and damage of charged shot.

As I mentioned on one of my posts. If it would have alternate firing mode. One for single fire and one for burst fire. What do you think about that kind of change_ Btw. Off topic your profile pic reminds me about one person from other game.

Sounds reasonable, especially since they just added the burst-fire prestige weapon for the tech. Actually, I kinda like that idea. Tap for single, hold for burst, or tap for burst, hold for charged single_

And good job at noticing, it's Ahri from League of Legends.

[Battlesbreak]

ninjab3ta, on May 09 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Battlesbreak, on May 09 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

ninjab3ta, on May 07 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

I actually kind of like it the way it is, because it forces heat management. That being said, it does need some differentiation from the SA-Hawkins. And the gunsmoke is quite annoying when you're scoped in.

Perhaps we have a different version for the Sharpshooter, with that fun charge-shot idea_ Though that could make the Slug Rifle obsolete, depending on charge time, refire, and damage of charged shot.

As I mentioned on one of my posts. If it would have alternate firing mode. One for single fire and one for burst fire. What do you think about that kind of change_ Btw. Off topic your profile pic reminds me about one person from other game.

Sounds reasonable, especially since they just added the burst-fire prestige weapon for the tech. Actually, I kinda like that idea. Tap for single, hold for burst, or tap for burst, hold for charged single_

And good job at noticing, it's Ahri from League of Legends.

Why not.

Well somehow guessed that. Ahri's every mans favorite lady it seems. Anyway. Now we have new weapon for the Technician what is actually burst fire weapon. I actually kind a like it.

[Terr_]

Change the control scheme:

• Holding down the fire-key will cause it to repeatedly shoot...
  
• ... at a rate that is only about 80% what you can get by tapping manually.

Benefits:

• Ends most of the player-interface frustration
  
• Does not significantly alter the balance of the gun
  
• Players who like the tapping can keep on doing it

[Rydiak]

Terr_, on May 19 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Change the control scheme:

• Holding down the fire-key will cause it to repeatedly shoot...
  
• ... at a rate that is only about 80% what you can get by tapping manually.

Benefits:

• Ends most of the player-interface frustration
  
• Does not significantly alter the balance of the gun
  
• Players who like the tapping can keep on doing it

Pointless. I have a macro on my mouse that already does this without any loss of performance, let alone 20%.