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A Quick Update for Everyone: 07/14/14


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#161 TheButtSatisfier

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Posted July 31 2014 - 12:17 PM

 Superkamikazee, on July 31 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

Why would someone continue to invest (time / money) into Hawken with so much uncertainty as to what is really happening with ADH and or Hawken_

That's a good question and it's one that everyone has to answer for themselves. I personally don't play this game for any other reason than it's fun to play. I don't buy stuff to provide a job to someone at Adhesive or in hopes that they'll use my money to make the game better. I buy something because I'm too impatient to grind for whatever I want. This is one of my hedonistic escapes and I'm shameless in admitting it. The upcoming news could be "we're not doing development anymore" and I'll still play it as long as I find it fun. Its not news I want to hear, but I have no illusions about my perspective on why I spend time and money on the game.

#162 Fstroke

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Posted July 31 2014 - 12:18 PM

 Superkamikazee, on July 31 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:



They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

Why would someone continue to invest (time / money) into Hawken with so much uncertainty as to what is really happening with ADH and or Hawken_

Well you are not required to invest money and the marginal benefit of investing time is completely up to the individual. Not some all encompassing philosophy.

#163 DerMax

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Posted July 31 2014 - 12:31 PM

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

 Superkamikazee, on July 31 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

Why would someone continue to invest (time / money) into Hawken with so much uncertainty as to what is really happening with ADH and or Hawken_

That's a good question and it's one that everyone has to answer for themselves. I personally don't play this game for any other reason than it's fun to play. I don't buy stuff to provide a job to someone at Adhesive or in hopes that they'll use my money to make the game better. I buy something because I'm too impatient to grind for whatever I want. This is one of my hedonistic escapes and I'm shameless in admitting it. The upcoming news could be "we're not doing development anymore" and I'll still play it as long as I find it fun. Its not news I want to hear, but I have no illusions about my perspective on why I spend time and money on the game.

Quite an outspoken person you are, I must say. Especially considering your username.

#164 WastingTime

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Posted July 31 2014 - 12:57 PM

@ TheButt

Your jib, I like the cut of it

#165 GalaxyRadio

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Posted July 31 2014 - 01:26 PM

Serverperformance ist terrible, i have extreme laggs and extremely low fps with a super strong computersystem.

I know, that game is poorly optimized and some maps are bad, but today in the evening its just, wow, fps is going crazy from 20-60.... Some other players had some performanceissues as well.

Hope this will end with the new update in, don't know, weeks, months, hope just a few weeks away :)

I had also a new problem while playing, sometime if i die this happens - Meaning of this is - i cant launch, this screen last forever, until i leave the game without reward (HC's). And i got 1 more abandoned status, so loss, playing 5-20min. or more for nothing and the team thinking i leave without saying anything...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Never had this before, hope you fix this too.

Kind Regards,
Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, July 31 2014 - 01:26 PM.


#166 DaPheel

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Posted July 31 2014 - 01:29 PM

If there's no info yet, could I have some cake_ I would reallllly like some cake.
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#167 Zaxik

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Posted July 31 2014 - 01:46 PM

Guys please, calm your fuzzy bunny already. HUGHES clearly said that there's nothing that can be discussed with public. Previously he clearly said they have some technical debts to pay. But people still keep b*tching and HUGHES has to spend time here in this thread replying to stupid comments, maybe instead of actually doing his job.

Yeah we all want new content, I myself stopped playing until something new happens, but it's really unfair to keep asking and asking pretty much every single day when paying technical debts can take months. I myself was in some technical debt some time ago and it took me two year collecting knowledge that I needed to improve my work and then months actually paying the debt (and I'm speaking of technical debt on much significantly smaller scale than Hawken). Be glad that devs actually care enough about the game that they're willing to take the time to pay those debts. They could instead be like, I dunno, Firefall devs - they just released that game, got rid of beta tag and everything kinda goes to hell as all their little bugs are now surfacing, rendering stuff as crafting or market unusable, or partially unusable. Want that to happen with Hawken_ I guess not. So again, calm your fuzzy bunny, guys. Once the debt is paid, I'm sure HWK team will have some awesome new stuff to share with us.

I agree though, that it wouldn't be too bad for us to know how is this progress of paying the technical debt going so far. I know it's hard to say like "we're halfway done", it's impossible to say how much is done, but at least saying maybe something like "it's going smooth so far, even though abit slower than expected" might calm many of us ;-)

Thanks HUGHES for everything. I personally don't feel any "lack of communication", I myself would even prefer everyone in HWK working hard, rather than spending capacities for dealing with mad community.

Edited by Zaxik, July 31 2014 - 01:47 PM.

Got few Hawken vids here on my YT.

#168 EliteShooter

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Posted July 31 2014 - 02:03 PM

 DerMax, on July 31 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

NDA_ But he cleared out that there isn't something mysterious or hidden. If it's because of an NDA, he could have just told that to us. IDTS ...

WHY THEN_ WHY_ What can it possibly be that prevents them from sharing the info they "would love to" share_

Go yell somewhere else ...

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#169 Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Posted July 31 2014 - 02:15 PM

 Zaxik, on July 31 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Guys please, calm your fuzzy bunny already. HUGHES clearly said that there's nothing that can be discussed with public. Previously he clearly said they have some technical debts to pay. But people still keep b*tching and HUGHES has to spend time here in this thread replying to stupid comments, maybe instead of actually doing his job.

Yeah we all want new content, I myself stopped playing until something new happens, but it's really unfair to keep asking and asking pretty much every single day when paying technical debts can take months. I myself was in some technical debt some time ago and it took me two year collecting knowledge that I needed to improve my work and then months actually paying the debt (and I'm speaking of technical debt on much significantly smaller scale than Hawken). Be glad that devs actually care enough about the game that they're willing to take the time to pay those debts. They could instead be like, I dunno, Firefall devs - they just released that game, got rid of beta tag and everything kinda goes to hell as all their little bugs are now surfacing, rendering stuff as crafting or market unusable, or partially unusable. Want that to happen with Hawken_ I guess not. So again, calm your fuzzy bunny, guys. Once the debt is paid, I'm sure HWK team will have some awesome new stuff to share with us.

I agree though, that it wouldn't be too bad for us to know how is this progress of paying the technical debt going so far. I know it's hard to say like "we're halfway done", it's impossible to say how much is done, but at least saying maybe something like "it's going smooth so far, even though abit slower than expected" might calm many of us ;-)

Thanks HUGHES for everything. I personally don't feel any "lack of communication", I myself would even prefer everyone in HWK working hard, rather than spending capacities for dealing with mad community.

This.

#170 EM1O

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Posted July 31 2014 - 02:21 PM

 GalaxyRadio, on July 31 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Serverperformance ist terrible, i have extreme laggs and extremely low fps with a super strong computersystem.

I know, that game is poorly optimized and some maps are bad, but today in the evening its just, wow, fps is going crazy from 20-60.... Some other players had some performanceissues as well.

Hope this will end with the new update in, don't know, weeks, months, hope just a few weeks away :)

I had also a new problem while playing, sometime if i die this happens - Meaning of this is - i cant launch, this screen last forever, until i leave the game without reward (HC's). And i got 1 more abandoned status, so loss, playing 5-20min. or more for nothing and the team thinking i leave without saying anything...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Never had this before, hope you fix this too.

Kind Regards,
Galaxy Radio

This happens to me about 3 or 4 times a month. used to happen as much per week pre-Ascension. I have 6 consecutive BRs in on it, but I would consider it fairly low priority for ADH.
It's hard to worry about killing cockroaches in the basement when the kitchen's on fire.
:)

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#171 SamEureka

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Posted July 31 2014 - 02:44 PM

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

 Fstroke, on July 31 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

It could something as big as an NDA, for a sale or merger, but you can typically find at least a rumor about that somewhere.

Not if the NDA is doing its job. It's even easier to contain that information when the team is small and when their livelihoods are on the line. If someone breaches NDA in the process of an acquisition or merger then not only does the current deal probably get scrapped, but it significantly reduces the chances of another company coming along and trying to do the same in the future (because someone at Adhesive couldn't keep their mouthes shut, so they're a poor investment).

Someone suggested that they tell us if they are under NDA. Even saying you're under NDA can be a breach of NDA. Even if it's not it can infringe on other legal issues / can damage the relationship with a company about to make a buyout or merger. In general it's good business practice to not say fuzzy bunny regarding a merger or buyout, up to an including "We can't say anything because we have an NDA. (WINK)."

It's amusing to read this thread. It's like someone's reading from a script.

ADH: Hey guys, sorry for being so quiet. We're still doing development but we're unable to discuss it at this time. Please be patient and we'll give you updates when we can.
Community: You guys are losing customers because of your lack of updates. We want to hear something.
ADH: We definitely don't want to lose customers. Please be patient, we really can't say anything right now, and we swear we'll give you something when we can.
Community: This isn't how you treat valuable customers. Look at company X and Y. They give out updates every Z days. Why can't you do that_
ADH: Seriously, we are really sorry, but we're honestly unable to give you anything right now. Please trust us and be patient.
Community: Can we have just a small nugget of update_
ADH: As we've said, unfortunately we really can't say much now. We'll give you an update when we can.

And then someone else picks up the script and starts reading off of it again.

If we as a community can act like reasonable people then there's a few things we can agree on:

1. Team ADH reads our posts and probably hold regular internal discussions regarding community feedback
2. Team ADH aren't idiots and know what the risks are of not giving us the updates we all so desperately want
3. Team ADH does want to give us an update but for whatever reason can't
4. Team ADH has told us point 3 multiple times in as many ways as possible without giving away any information they've said they can't provide

Asking politely, demanding answers, comparing them to their competitors, threatening to leave, pointing out the risks, doesn't matter what someone types on this forum. They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

Please! Stop with the well reasoned, intelligent, and bullet point filled posting already. These pilots feel entitled and they will have blood... BLOOD I TELL YOU!!!

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#172 mmm_yep

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Posted July 31 2014 - 04:13 PM

Seems like Hughes' post made it worse. I'm just chillin' shooting robots and making explosions. I'm not all up in arms about the slow updates because it's a free game and I have definitely gotten my money's worth! If you feel cheated, jipped, hosed, or otherwise screwed because you've paid money for every mech and skin in the game and the updates aren't too your liking then that's just something you have to deal with yourself because you chose to take a chance and go all in on a free game in a beta release.

I would like to close by echoing what has already been said a million times: just relax and have fun with the game!

Edited by mmm_yep, July 31 2014 - 07:10 PM.


#173 TheButtSatisfier

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Posted July 31 2014 - 06:44 PM

 DerMax, on July 31 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Quite an outspoken person you are, I must say. Especially considering your username.

I only aim to satisfy.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, July 31 2014 - 06:49 PM.


#174 SparkyJJC

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Posted August 01 2014 - 01:40 AM

Looks like we have quite the war going on.
Now all I have to do is wait for someone to over-analyse this sentence and make a two paragraph rant.
:P
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#175 BIsmuthZornisse

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Posted August 01 2014 - 01:49 AM

@TheButtSatisfier:
Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, i'd like to ask you something about NDAs.
I don't understand why an NDA would dissallow you to say that you're under NDA. I mean, just saying something like "Yo, guys, we can't release/work on an update until we're done with what we're doing now, but we're under an Non-Disclosure Agreement, so we're not allowed to tell you what we are doing right now." would probably go some way of mitigating this "drama"(this is probably too strong of a word for this, but i can't think of a better one). Maybe there is good reason for that, that will even be obvious to me in hindsight, but please tell me.

About your other points:
1. I think, even if the NDA disallows talking about the NDA, it would help ease other people's fears about this game dieing, if had more "external" discussions about community feedback. Like i said before, it would be cool if one of the devs regularly responded to suggestions on that subforum, so we knew that we're not wasting our time with the suggestions. Maybe I'm just an attentionwhore in denial or something.
2. While i agree that the devs are probably aware that this silence may lead other players to abandon the game, but i'm not so sure about the devs not being idiots. I would'nt go so far as to call them "idiots", especially not the entire team, but someone on the team does not seem to think things all the way through before implementing them into the game and releasing it to the public, especially regarding game balance. Like, for example, the incinerator and the technician, the issues of which are probably well known by now, but also the g2 mechs, which seem like a thinly veiled excuse to ask for meteor credits/real money from the player. sure i could buy these for just the grind money/hawken credits, but i also had the assault and raider maxed out at that point. new players would have in order to not spend mc on them: grind hc to get the g1 version, get that mech to level six, which can take very long if a player isnt good at the game, since experience is mostly skill based (if i remember right, i maxed out everything months ago), and then grind over 10000 hc to finally buy the g2. only to find out that g2 mechs kinda suck. someone's gonna tell me that theyre optional, but so are all the mechs besides the cr-t recruit, that doesn't stop those being at least about equivalent to the cr-t. and the g2s were even worse when they were first released, to the point of needing a hotfix to at least be reasonably useful. I seriously suspect a concerning lack playtesting here, i mean, why would you release a mech that has only close range weapons with spinup that don't have a blast radius, meaning they can't properly follow their targets around corners_ how is the g2assault meant actually finish of its enemies_
Wow, i did not start writing this reply expecting a rant about g2 mechs, sorry. i wasnt on the forums when g2s were first released, i suppose.

Anyway back on topic,
When they do give us a game update after they're done with the server and database migrations and with whatever they're doing that apperently involves an nda, i hope it will primarily be about fixing the balance issues that are currently in the game before releasing any new mech or whatever.


To some other people in the thread:
Could you, please, not belittle dissenters, imply that they are children/underage, dismiss their criticism or questions as trolling, or outright tell them to leave_ i don't see what good that could possibly accomplish. giving other people, including lurkers who don't actually post, the impression that criticism of the game is not allowed, is less likely to help the devs and more likely to make more players abandon the game, probably leading to stagnation of the community.
My big list of suggestions: (Warning: Contains lots of text)
https://community.pl...-fixing-things/

#176 nokari

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Posted August 01 2014 - 02:50 AM

 BIsmuthZornisse, on August 01 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:

@TheButtSatisfier:
Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, i'd like to ask you something about NDAs.
I don't understand why an NDA would dissallow you to say that you're under NDA. I mean, just saying something like "Yo, guys, we can't release/work on an update until we're done with what we're doing now, but we're under an Non-Disclosure Agreement, so we're not allowed to tell you what we are doing right now." would probably go some way of mitigating this "drama"(this is probably too strong of a word for this, but i can't think of a better one). Maybe there is good reason for that, that will even be obvious to me in hindsight, but please tell me.

He was more or less explaining the workings of an NDA as it MIGHT apply to this, not necessarily saying there is one.

This all however is likely not the case. What's more likely is that whoever is the executive officer/manager in charge of making decisions on what is released and when has mandated they keep quiet, for some business reason that's obvious to them but not to us.

Quote

About your other points:
1. I think, even if the NDA disallows talking about the NDA, it would help ease other people's fears about this game dieing, if had more "external" discussions about community feedback. Like i said before, it would be cool if one of the devs regularly responded to suggestions on that subforum, so we knew that we're not wasting our time with the suggestions. Maybe I'm just an attentionwhore in denial or something.


Most of the suggestions going on are regurgitated topics we've seen plenty of before, because somebody didn't do a search.
Engaging in discussions with the community would more than likely turn into the exact same questioning and demands we see here and the devs' responses would be the same. That also means less time spent getting actual work done.

Quote

2. While i agree that the devs are probably aware that this silence may lead other players to abandon the game, but i'm not so sure about the devs not being idiots. I would'nt go so far as to call them "idiots", especially not the entire team, but someone on the team does not seem to think things all the way through before implementing them into the game and releasing it to the public, especially regarding game balance.

I think it's likely rushed code exacerbated by someone in charge trying to keep expected deadlines in an attempt to get the product polished and out the door, to appease both us and investors.
It often comes down to devs knowing what they're writing has problems, and they tell their boss what those problems will likely be, but they still need to deliver what was promissed. So their boss makes a tough call of either releasing the patch anyways and planning to circle back to fix it later, or missing the deadline, which blocks other things from happening. Many corners got cut and there was never enough time to circle back and fix, which is why it's taking so long to fix it all now.

Quote

When they do give us a game update after they're done with the server and database migrations and with whatever they're doing that apperently involves an nda, i hope it will primarily be about fixing the balance issues that are currently in the game before releasing any new mech or whatever.

There are different teams of devs working on different things and they can always do content creation and balance fixes at the same time.

Edited by nokari, August 01 2014 - 03:00 AM.

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#177 DaPheel

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Posted August 01 2014 - 02:57 AM

 SparkyJJC, on August 01 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

Looks like we have quite the war going on.
Now all I have to do is wait for someone to over-analyse this sentence and make a two paragraph rant.
:P

Oh look, another person just jumps straight in with all of these sarcastic comments. Typical of you to have to chip in "your two cents". I won't stand for it I tell you! Also, how very dare you stick your toungue out at me! whom do you think you are, some form of forum god, that you can do these things and think it's o.k._

It's exactly this kind of attitude in the community that means we can't have nice things! I think you should phrase your future comments to be slightly less inflammatory.

Thankyou ;) :D
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#178 SparkyJJC

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Posted August 01 2014 - 04:30 AM

 DaPheel, on August 01 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

 SparkyJJC, on August 01 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

Looks like we have quite the war going on.
Now all I have to do is wait for someone to over-analyse this sentence and make a two paragraph rant.
:P

Oh look, another person just jumps straight in with all of these sarcastic comments. Typical of you to have to chip in "your two cents". I won't stand for it I tell you! Also, how very dare you stick your toungue out at me! whom do you think you are, some form of forum god, that you can do these things and think it's o.k._

It's exactly this kind of attitude in the community that means we can't have nice things! I think you should phrase your future comments to be slightly less inflammatory.

Thankyou ;) :D

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#179 MechaMakishima

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Posted August 01 2014 - 04:58 AM

All of you fighting pleases me greatly....

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Continue killing each other :)
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#180 TheButtSatisfier

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Posted August 01 2014 - 08:06 AM

 BIsmuthZornisse, on August 01 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:

@TheButtSatisfier:
Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, i'd like to ask you something about NDAs.
I don't understand why an NDA would dissallow you to say that you're under NDA. I mean, just saying something like "Yo, guys, we can't release/work on an update until we're done with what we're doing now, but we're under an Non-Disclosure Agreement, so we're not allowed to tell you what we are doing right now." would probably go some way of mitigating this "drama"(this is probably too strong of a word for this, but i can't think of a better one). Maybe there is good reason for that, that will even be obvious to me in hindsight, but please tell me.

First off: I've signed a few NDAs, but I'm by no means an authority on them. The restrictions would be based on the terms in the document. Those terms generally follow a pattern (Wikipedia's article on NDAs gives you a general idea) but they can be anything two parties agree on.

I wouldn't get too fixated on a NDA being the reason for the lack of concrete updates. The NDA theory is one of many that would explain the current situation. We're all making a lot of conjecture to fill this information vacuum, and I hold some responsibility by adding my own two cents on the topic.

Quote

About your other points:
1. I think, even if the NDA disallows talking about the NDA, it would help ease other people's fears about this game dieing, if had more "external" discussions about community feedback. Like i said before, it would be cool if one of the devs regularly responded to suggestions on that subforum, so we knew that we're not wasting our time with the suggestions. Maybe I'm just an attentionwhore in denial or something.

Signing a NDA and then deciding t to breach the NDA because you want to appease a horde of unhappy customers isn't a good business decision. I understand your sentiment but cooler heads are preventing anyone in Adhesive from deviating from company orders - be it NDA, internal instruction, whatever - and maintaining their silence.

Quote

2. While i agree that the devs are probably aware that this silence may lead other players to abandon the game, but i'm not so sure about the devs not being idiots. I would'nt go so far as to call them "idiots", especially not the entire team, but someone on the team does not seem to think things all the way through before implementing them into the game and releasing it to the public, especially regarding game balance. Like, for example, the incinerator and the technician, the issues of which are probably well known by now, but also the g2 mechs, which seem like a thinly veiled excuse to ask for meteor credits/real money from the player. sure i could buy these for just the grind money/hawken credits...

Few points here. I doubt that whoever made the decision to institute the lack of concrete updates is the same person who made the gameplay decisions that you're unhappy about. One's a design issue and another's a PR issue. Even if it was the same person I think it's important to remember that a person being "bad" at one thing doesn't magically mean they suck at everything else. There's plenty of things I suck at but there's still things I'm good at too. Same's probably true for you.

I'm not commenting on the gameplay balance topic directly, that's a discussion for somewhere else.




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