181 replies to this topic

[Odinous]

 [HWK]Defter, on July 30 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

For me thats enough,those guys offered us this great game(and yeah some of u dont agree and bla bla,but u are still concerned in this game so u still want it to succeed) so would u in their shoes let it die_Nah people u should think stronger,its their job,for us its just a game.i do believe this game has yet future and i think it will be glorious!

Edited by Odinous, July 31 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[EliteShooter]

 Odinous, on July 31 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

but u are still concerned in this game so u still want it to succeed) so would u in their shoes let it die_Nah people u should think stronger,its their job,for us its just a game.i do believe this game has yet future and i think it will be glorious!

So true, and we all must know that the devs really appreciate that, and they don't mean to be slow or silent because they know that people after are hooked up and will miss the game and keep coming back. Everyone respects the people who still care even with the lack of content. But for God's sake, you people really shouldn't think the devs will kiss yo asses cuz of that. If you still care, then thank you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to talk like you're a fuzzy bunny that's funding the game. Your support is much appreciated and needed, but KNOW YOUR fuzzy bunny LIMITS, BE MATURE AND PATIENT, UNDERSTAND PROGRAMMING AND DEVELOPMENT FROM A TECHNICAL STAND POINT.

Look at people who actually know how it works, they don't complain much, even if at all. Want me to name few_ ShadowGTR, OmegaNull, Ashfire and a few others who have great knowledge about programming and development. I don't see them whining like jerks the whole day. It doesn't mean they like the lack of content, but they understand how things are, because they have the knowledge. Even the humble beginner programmer called me understands how it is. (Note; the people I named are tech professionals, and that's based on my personal knowledge to them. And I'm sure they aren't as whiny as others. But that takes nothing away from the fact that there are a lot of other people who have the patience and understanding, weather they're related to tech stuff or not, in terms of knowledge).

[Odinous]

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

 Odinous, on July 31 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

but u are still concerned in this game so u still want it to succeed) so would u in their shoes let it die_Nah people u should think stronger,its their job,for us its just a game.i do believe this game has yet future and i think it will be glorious!

So true, and we all must know that the devs really appreciate that, and they don't mean to be slow or silent because they know that people after are hooked up and will miss the game and keep coming back. Everyone respects the people who still care even with the lack of content. But for God's sake, you people really shouldn't think the devs will kiss yo asses cuz of that. If you still care, then thank you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to talk like you're a fuzzy bunny that's funding the game. Your support is much appreciated and needed, but KNOW YOUR fuzzy bunny LIMITS, BE MATURE AND PATIENT, UNDERSTAND PROGRAMMING AND DEVELOPMENT FROM A TECHNICAL STAND POINT.

Look at people who actually know how it works, they don't complain much, even if at all. Want me to name few_ ShadowGTR, OmegaNull, Ashfire and a few others who have great knowledge about programming and development. I don't see them whining like jerks the whole day. It doesn't mean they like the lack of content, but they understand how things are, because they have the knowledge. Even the humble beginner programmer called me understands how it is. (Note; the people I named are tech professionals, and that's based on my personal knowledge to them. And I'm sure they aren't as whiny as others. But that takes nothing away from the fact that there are a lot of other people who have the patience and understanding, weather they're related to tech stuff or not, in terms of knowledge).

The most important thing people forget at this right moment is that this small group of people(Devs) are doing server migration with a live game,they are giving us a chance to play while they are doing some serious work.
Please people use your brains except if u are too young and never worked anywhere,that i completely understand..

[Odinous]

I wanted to add something,Hawken is not my first online game(but now its the only one i am playing for more than a year or so),i was playing many games before being some kind of a hardcore gamer for few years,playing fps games,mmo games etc etc...But in every damn game there are people who dont agree with the content or just not satisfied with the game,but this is not all the community of hawken,cause even if u like it or not most of us are still enjoying this game and appreciate the hard work needs to be done to make this great game even better!!!
Its the only game i am actually being in the forums like everyday..

Edited by Odinous, July 31 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I know migrating servers is stupidly tough.  I know a guy who had to pull all nighters four days straight to move a few (I wouldn't be able to do that, at least). Guess what_  Those servers were taken offline to be moved and had about 3-4 people migrating them.  How hard and long would it take for 3-4 people to move online servers then_

I'm going to try to be patient and wait for ADH to get all this technical debt done with.  Trust is earned, and I hope they use it well. If not, then I sure you all can guess what happens next.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, July 31 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[Odinous]

 Hijinks_The_Turtle, on July 31 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

I'm going to try to be patient and wait for ADH to get all this technical debt done with.  Trust is earned, and I hope they use it well. If not, then I sure you all can guess what happens next.

Amen!

[EliteShooter]

 Odinous, on July 31 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

 Odinous, on July 31 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

but u are still concerned in this game so u still want it to succeed) so would u in their shoes let it die_Nah people u should think stronger,its their job,for us its just a game.i do believe this game has yet future and i think it will be glorious!

So true, and we all must know that the devs really appreciate that, and they don't mean to be slow or silent because they know that people after are hooked up and will miss the game and keep coming back. Everyone respects the people who still care even with the lack of content. But for God's sake, you people really shouldn't think the devs will kiss yo asses cuz of that. If you still care, then thank you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to talk like you're a fuzzy bunny that's funding the game. Your support is much appreciated and needed, but KNOW YOUR fuzzy bunny LIMITS, BE MATURE AND PATIENT, UNDERSTAND PROGRAMMING AND DEVELOPMENT FROM A TECHNICAL STAND POINT.

Look at people who actually know how it works, they don't complain much, even if at all. Want me to name few_ ShadowGTR, OmegaNull, Ashfire and a few others who have great knowledge about programming and development. I don't see them whining like jerks the whole day. It doesn't mean they like the lack of content, but they understand how things are, because they have the knowledge. Even the humble beginner programmer called me understands how it is. (Note; the people I named are tech professionals, and that's based on my personal knowledge to them. And I'm sure they aren't as whiny as others. But that takes nothing away from the fact that there are a lot of other people who have the patience and understanding, weather they're related to tech stuff or not, in terms of knowledge).

The most important thing people forget at this right moment is that this small group of people(Devs) are doing server migration with a live game,they are giving us a chance to play while they are doing some serious work.
Please people use your brains except if u are too young and never worked anywhere,that i completely understand..

Right, the lack of technical knowledge will always lead to such misunderstanding and reactions from players who have little to no knowledge about stuff. I really think the devs should have explained and probably broken down the process in a simple for to the people so that they understand what's going on.

[DerMax]

But seriously, what can possibly be a reason for this lack of transparency but an NDA_ I can't think of any other thing.

Hughes, if it is indeed an NDA, just tell us "We can't tell you stuff, even though we really want to, because we've signed an NDA". That would solve so many problems with the whole transparency thing.

[EliteShooter]

NDA_ But he cleared out that there isn't something mysterious or hidden. If it's because of an NDA, he could have just told that to us. IDTS ...

[DerMax]

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

NDA_ But he cleared out that there isn't something mysterious or hidden. If it's because of an NDA, he could have just told that to us. IDTS ...

WHY THEN_ WHY_ What can it possibly be that prevents them from sharing the info they "would love to" share_

[ReEvolve]

 [HWK]HUGHES, on July 30 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

You say I didn't properly address the people looking for a reason to come back, what would you recommend_

The players that I described in my former post are waiting for a announcement that makes them excited about Hawken again. They aren't in love with Hawken anymore but they still care about the game. Most of those players either feel like the game is stagnating due to the lack of content updates or they lost confidence about Hawken being around for much longer. If you can't talk about Hawken's future at all then you won't be able to satisfy them with any kind of post.

I think the main problem is that since you've been saying that you can't talk about Hawken's future at all for the last two months, quite a few players feel like Hawken doesn't even have a future. They ask for updates because they want clarification about wether Hawken has a future or not. They feel like you (and ADH) are not willing to make a commitment to continue to develop Hawken by staying silent about Hawken's future. This problem isn't caused by you saying that you aren't confident about any timeframes for future content. I'd say this problem is caused by you not saying that there will be future content. It seems like you just avoid the topic all together.

Are you honestly not able to answer general questions like:

• Will there be any content updates at all in the future_
  
• Are people at ADH actively working on new content for Hawken_ If not, will people continue to work on new content after the backend stuff is finished_
  
• Are people at ADH actively working on fixing bugs_ If not, will people continue to work on fixing bugs after the backend stuff is finished_
  
• Do you still plan to introduce the ability to rent private servers_

Look, it makes people feel uneasy that you people at ADH were teasing and hinting at new content before the migration began and now you're saying that there isn't any news worth talking about. It is totally understandable that you can't tell us the "exact release date of the G2 [insertMechHere]" and as I already mentioned that's okay because that's not the kind of information that most players ask for. Well, maybe the migration slowed down or even halted any recent development on new content. However, surely someone was working on new content or fixing bugs before the migrations started, right_ What about that_ Are you unable to post a list of bugs that were fixed up until now_ Are you unable show some screenshots or concept art or playtest video of some new stuff even if it is unfinished_ For example like you did back then with the "Test Arena" Map. That's the stuff that started discussions and made people excited about Hawken again. So, to come full circle: If you want to properly address and convince the people who are waiting to for a reason to get excited about Hawken again then you probably have to show them something new. I think there's no other way. If you don't address and convince these people as well then you shouldn't be surprised about all of the negativity.


EDIT: I hope that it doesn't sound aggressive. I tend to become a bit insensitive when writing longer posts.

[Skitzo1d]

 DerMax, on July 31 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

NDA_ But he cleared out that there isn't something mysterious or hidden. If it's because of an NDA, he could have just told that to us. IDTS ...

WHY THEN_ WHY_ What can it possibly be that prevents them from sharing the info they "would love to" share_

Because they want to make sure its ready to share before saying we are going to share "this" with you.  If you promise somethign to someone but then never give it to them for technical difficulties or it was late said person would be upset and then wouldnt want anythign to do with you.

a NDA really_  As far fetched as that would be, there would be only one reason for that to happen.  Which probably isnt likely.

[DerMax]

 Skitzo1d, on July 31 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

 DerMax, on July 31 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

 EliteShooter, on July 31 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

NDA_ But he cleared out that there isn't something mysterious or hidden. If it's because of an NDA, he could have just told that to us. IDTS ...

WHY THEN_ WHY_ What can it possibly be that prevents them from sharing the info they "would love to" share_

Because they want to make sure its ready to share before saying we are going to share "this" with you.  If you promise somethign to someone but then never give it to them for technical difficulties or it was late said person would be upset and then wouldnt want anythign to do with you.

Many other game dev teams don't have this problem. If Team HWK do, they just made it up for themselves.

[Sylhiri]

 Skitzo1d, on July 31 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Because they want to make sure its ready to share before saying we are going to share "this" with you.  If you promise somethign to someone but then never give it to them for technical difficulties or it was late said person would be upset and then wouldnt want anythign to do with you.

More or less upset then right now_ I remember them announcing the destructable terrain and later saying that they halted development on it, maybe a few people got upset but it wasn't a big deal as the reason for halting the development was communitcated to the public in a clear manner and people understood. I think only one person comes around to check if the devs put it in but that's pretty much it. Clan support is a big feature people want, they announced they are working on it way back when and there was minor torches and pitchforks when it didn't come about. They announced they are working on Seige 2.0, that hasn't come out yet and I see no heads on spikes. Private servers are in development and some people get to test the beta version yet the ADH building has yet to catch on fire because it's not released yet.

It's not a big deal.

[DerMax]

 Sylhiri, on July 31 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

 Skitzo1d, on July 31 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Because they want to make sure its ready to share before saying we are going to share "this" with you.  If you promise somethign to someone but then never give it to them for technical difficulties or it was late said person would be upset and then wouldnt want anythign to do with you.

More or less upset then right now_ I remember them announcing the destructable terrain and later saying that they halted development on it, maybe a few people got upset but it wasn't a big deal as the reason for halting the development was communitcated to the public in a clear manner and people understood. I think only one person comes around to check if the devs put it in but that's pretty much it. Clan support is a big feature people want, they announced they are working on it way back when and there was minor torches and pitchforks when it didn't come about. They announced they are working on Seige 2.0, that hasn't come out yet and I see no heads on spikes. Private servers are in development and some people get to test the beta version yet the ADH building has yet to catch on fire because it's not released yet.

It's not a big deal.

Exactly. If they have things in development that can potentially fail (as it happened with the destructible environment map), it is not a big deal! We can man up and take it when something doesn't work out in the end. It is much better than being kept in the dark.

[[HWK]HUGHES]

 ReEvolve, on July 31 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

 [HWK]HUGHES, on July 30 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

You say I didn't properly address the people looking for a reason to come back, what would you recommend_

The players that I described in my former post are waiting for a announcement that makes them excited about Hawken again. They aren't in love with Hawken anymore but they still care about the game. Most of those players either feel like the game is stagnating due to the lack of content updates or they lost confidence about Hawken being around for much longer. If you can't talk about Hawken's future at all then you won't be able to satisfy them with any kind of post.

I think the main problem is that since you've been saying that you can't talk about Hawken's future at all for the last two months, quite a few players feel like Hawken doesn't even have a future. They ask for updates because they want clarification about wether Hawken has a future or not. They feel like you (and ADH) are not willing to make a commitment to continue to develop Hawken by staying silent about Hawken's future. This problem isn't caused by you saying that you aren't confident about any timeframes for future content. I'd say this problem is caused by you not saying that there will be future content. It seems like you just avoid the topic all together.

Are you honestly not able to answer general questions like:

• Will there be any content updates at all in the future_
  
• Are people at ADH actively working on new content for Hawken_ If not, will people continue to work on new content after the backend stuff is finished_
  
• Are people at ADH actively working on fixing bugs_ If not, will people continue to work on fixing bugs after the backend stuff is finished_
  
• Do you still plan to introduce the ability to rent private servers_

Look, it makes people feel uneasy that you people at ADH were teasing and hinting at new content before the migration began and now you're saying that there isn't any news worth talking about. It is totally understandable that you can't tell us the "exact release date of the G2 [insertMechHere]" and as I already mentioned that's okay because that's not the kind of information that most players ask for. Well, maybe the migration slowed down or even halted any recent development on new content. However, surely someone was working on new content or fixing bugs before the migrations started, right_ What about that_ Are you unable to post a list of bugs that were fixed up until now_ Are you unable show some screenshots or concept art or playtest video of some new stuff even if it is unfinished_ For example like you did back then with the "Test Arena" Map. That's the stuff that started discussions and made people excited about Hawken again. So, to come full circle: If you want to properly address and convince the people who are waiting to for a reason to get excited about Hawken again then you probably have to show them something new. I think there's no other way. If you don't address and convince these people as well then you shouldn't be surprised about all of the negativity.

I completely understand what you're saying, I'm not in disagreement but as mentioned, unfortunately there is nothing to discuss at this time. The team is still working and of course we believe in HAWKEN but anything beyond those points will have to wait for a future update. I know that's not the answer that people want to hear, it's not understood why it's the answer being given but it's what the answer is for now. We want to keep people interested in HAWKEN, why would we not_ If it was as simple as releasing a roadmap or teasing a piece of content, would we not do so_ All of that is what I attempted to address in my last post.

We have no new announcements at this time but the team is indeed working and we will provide an update as soon as details are ready for sharing.

[Fstroke]

I also stop using products because the creator of that product doesnt directly communicate with me.

Now its my turn to speculate. Leaking out information can do more harm than good especially if its subject to change. If you were told something today and something different happened tommorrow you would feel decieved wouldnt you_ So whats the lesser of 2 evils, a temporary fix by leaking out some information because you are feeling the pressure from a long period silence, thus risking long term damage to community relationships because of misinformation_ Or holding off the community for as long as possible, at the risk of frustrating and pushing them away, so when you finally can speak it is the most accurate information you can report_

It could something as big as an NDA, for a sale or merger, but you can typically find at least a rumor about that somewhere.

What I think is there has been a major schedule delay due to technical debt and now they have to compress a schedule for the expected release. Why they cant say anything is they probably havent fully negotiated that date yet, and what they are and are not going to be able to add or fix before release. My $0.02

[TheButtSatisfier]

 Fstroke, on July 31 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

It could something as big as an NDA, for a sale or merger, but you can typically find at least a rumor about that somewhere.

Not if the NDA is doing its job. It's even easier to contain that information when the team is small and when their livelihoods are on the line. If someone breaches NDA in the process of an acquisition or merger then not only does the current deal probably get scrapped, but it significantly reduces the chances of another company coming along and trying to do the same in the future (because someone at Adhesive couldn't keep their mouthes shut, so they're a poor investment).

Someone suggested that they tell us if they are under NDA. Even saying you're under NDA can be a breach of NDA. Even if it's not it can infringe on other legal issues / can damage the relationship with a company about to make a buyout or merger. In general it's good business practice to not say fuzzy bunny regarding a merger or buyout, up to an including "We can't say anything because we have an NDA. (WINK)."

It's amusing to read this thread. It's like someone's reading from a script.

ADH: Hey guys, sorry for being so quiet. We're still doing development but we're unable to discuss it at this time. Please be patient and we'll give you updates when we can.
Community: You guys are losing customers because of your lack of updates. We want to hear something.
ADH: We definitely don't want to lose customers. Please be patient, we really can't say anything right now, and we swear we'll give you something when we can.
Community: This isn't how you treat valuable customers. Look at company X and Y. They give out updates every Z days. Why can't you do that_
ADH: Seriously, we are really sorry, but we're honestly unable to give you anything right now. Please trust us and be patient.
Community: Can we have just a small nugget of update_
ADH: As we've said, unfortunately we really can't say much now. We'll give you an update when we can.

And then someone else picks up the script and starts reading off of it again.

If we as a community can act like reasonable people then there's a few things we can agree on:

1. Team ADH reads our posts and probably hold regular internal discussions regarding community feedback
2. Team ADH aren't idiots and know what the risks are of not giving us the updates we all so desperately want
3. Team ADH does want to give us an update but for whatever reason can't
4. Team ADH has told us point 3 multiple times in as many ways as possible without giving away any information they've said they can't provide

Asking politely, demanding answers, comparing them to their competitors, threatening to leave, pointing out the risks, doesn't matter what someone types on this forum. They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

[Skitzo1d]

 TheButtSatisfier, on July 31 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

 Fstroke, on July 31 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

It could something as big as an NDA, for a sale or merger, but you can typically find at least a rumor about that somewhere.

Not if the NDA is doing its job. It's even easier to contain that information when the team is small and when their livelihoods are on the line. If someone breaches NDA in the process of an acquisition or merger then not only does the current deal probably get scrapped, but it significantly reduces the chances of another company coming along and trying to do the same in the future (because someone at Adhesive couldn't keep their mouthes shut, so they're a poor investment).

Someone suggested that they tell us if they are under NDA. Even saying you're under NDA can be a breach of NDA. Even if it's not it can infringe on other legal issues / can damage the relationship with a company about to make a buyout or merger. In general it's good business practice to not say fuzzy bunny regarding a merger or buyout, up to an including "We can't say anything because we have an NDA. (WINK)."

It's amusing to read this thread. It's like someone's reading from a script.

ADH: Hey guys, sorry for being so quiet. We're still doing development but we're unable to discuss it at this time. Please be patient and we'll give you updates when we can.
Community: You guys are losing customers because of your lack of updates. We want to hear something.
ADH: We definitely don't want to lose customers. Please be patient, we really can't say anything right now, and we swear we'll give you something when we can.
Community: This isn't how you treat valuable customers. Look at company X and Y. They give out updates every Z days. Why can't you do that_
ADH: Seriously, we are really sorry, but we're honestly unable to give you anything right now. Please trust us and be patient.
Community: Can we have just a small nugget of update_
ADH: As we've said, unfortunately we really can't say much now. We'll give you an update when we can.

And then someone else picks up the script and starts reading off of it again.

If we as a community can act like reasonable people then there's a few things we can agree on:

1. Team ADH reads our posts and probably hold regular internal discussions regarding community feedback
2. Team ADH aren't idiots and know what the risks are of not giving us the updates we all so desperately want
3. Team ADH does want to give us an update but for whatever reason can't
4. Team ADH has told us point 3 multiple times in as many ways as possible without giving away any information they've said they can't provide

Asking politely, demanding answers, comparing them to their competitors, threatening to leave, pointing out the risks, doesn't matter what someone types on this forum. They will not given an update until they are ready. They won't say why they can't give an update until they are able to give the update itself. Go work on improving your gameplay and pray that whatever is coming out is worth your money and time investment in the game, cause you won't find any answers here in the meantime.

this

[Fstroke]

@theButtSatisfier

Exactly. Like there isnt anything better to do than ask to be fed on the forums. Like there isnt a game that is still functional that you can play for free if you want. A good percentage of this hawken is dying fuzzy bunny is nothing more than self fulfilling prophecy. If you arent playing the game for any other reason than you are bored or dont like the gameplay then its a ridiculous reason.

If you dont like the gameplay then I have bad news for you, the next update isnt likely to change your opinion. So sitting here and griping on the forums that you arent being told every business decision is an unbelievable waste of time.

Edited by Fstroke, July 31 2014 - 12:16 PM.