33 replies to this topic

[Xacius]

Reverse Engineering

Hawken has a fair amount of static variables that comprise the game.  While different combinations of items and internals facilitate different playstyles, there are specific “optimal” builds that most players utilize.  With the removal of the tuning system, there is no real way to customize your mech to make it unique.  I’ve proposed a Reverse Engineering (RE) system for use with current items/internals.  Basically, players will be able to loot or RE special internals/items with alternate stats.

Default equipment is default and will have no stat bonuses.
Blue equipment will have one positive/negative stat.
Purple equipment will have two positive and negative stats.
Orange equipment will have three positive and negative stats.

These stats are mere examples, but hopefully they get the general idea across.

A single Default piece of equipment cannot be reverse engineered. You can combine two or three Default pieces in a single RE for a chance at producing a colored piece of equipment.  Players will be able to RE up to 3 pieces of equipment at a time.

You can combine pieces together to improve your chances of yielding a more powerful item or internal, or to ensure that you get the same piece of equipment.   For example, you can combine two Default Detonator MK-II’s and a Blue Detonator MK-II to increase the chances of reverse engineering the same item.  


Example equipment:

Repair Kit (Hydraulics)
+3% Boost/Walk/Run speeds
-5% Weapon Refire Rate

Detonator MK-III (Flight Modulator)
+7% Air Speed
-12% Max Health

Items that take up more slots will have more powerful stat bonuses.  For reference, I’ve included different variants of the same item to indicate this.

Repair Charge MK-I (Acceleration)
+5% Dodge Speed
-3% Dodge Cooldown

Repair Charge MK-II (Acceleration)
+8% Dodge Speed
-5% Dodge Cooldown

Repair Charge MK-III (Acceleration)
+12% Dodge Speed
-8% Dodge Cooldown

After an item has been tuned to a specific mech, it can no longer be swapped to other mechs.  You can RE the item to untune it, but this will randomize both the internal and the stats.  Since this is essentially a recycling of content that you’ve already acquired, a negative penalty will be imposed for recycling items and internals.


Reverse Engineering a single Blue item/internal will have a 60% chance to yield another Blue item/internal and a 3% chance to yield a Purple item/internal.  Otherwise, it will RE into a Default piece of equipment.

Similarly, REing a Purple item/internal will have a 35% chance to yield another Purple item/internal, a 50% chance to yield a Blue item/internal, and a 2% chance to yield an Orange item/internal.  

More example stats:

Spoiler

(Additional Thrusters)
+% Boost Speeds
+% Boost Fuel Cost

(Weapon Loader)
+% faster Weapon Refire Rate
-% Weapon Damage

(Regenerative Titanium Plating)
+% Max Health
-% Movement Speed
+% Fuel Regeneration
-% Maximum Fuel Capacity


And more… (WIP)

After the backend issues are resolved, I assume the developers will resume working on new content.

The system I’m proposing has the potential to solve three of Hawken’s major problems:
1.   Lack of customization.

a.    Players liked the tuning system.  As broken as it was, it gave them the ability to make their mech different.  This system will give players the ability to customize specific stats, but the negative stat effects will punish players for stacking a single effect.  Tradeoffs are key with any customization system.

b.   Hawken is a mech game.  It’s a niche genre, but one of the key elements of the mech genre is part-by-part customization.  

2.   Lack of incentive to keep playing.

a.    The proposed system will grant players a chance to loot items/internals after match completion (I’m thinking something like 3-5% loot chance per match completion).  Obviously this chance would vary based on game-time, but it’s definitely a reason to keep playing.  

3.   Excessive leaving/rage-quitting

a.    See above.  Players that rage-quit will not be eligible for end-match loot.

There’s another benefit from this proposition: It allows the developers to recycle current equipment and give players new content at the same time.   OMG it’s, like, a win-win.

Edited by Xacius, August 20 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Sylhiri]

[craftydus]

mmmmmmmmmmm, drops_

[IronClamp]

Cool idea!

[Leonhardt]

Xacius, on August 20 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

OMG it’s, like, a win-win.

[Nept]

You are such an MMO nerd.

[Kopra]

Also introduce a booster that doubles the drop rate.

evil_plotting_raccoon.jpg

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Interesting idea, but please no RNG in this game.... Unless the price of reverse engineering is not too expensive, then I'd be okay with it. *cough* a few weapon/internal prices = mech price or more *cough*

Sylhiri, on August 20 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Warframe was the first thing that came to mind. +1

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, August 20 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Xacius]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on August 20 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Interesting idea, but please no RNG in this game.... Unless the price of reverse engineering is not too expensive, then I'd be okay with it. *cough* a few weapon/internal prices = mech price or more *cough*

Why does everything have to be static/predictable_  No RNG means less variation, imo.

Edited by Xacius, August 20 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Xacius, on August 20 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on August 20 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Interesting idea, but please no RNG in this game.... Unless the price of reverse engineering is not too expensive, then I'd be okay with it. *cough* a few weapon/internal prices = mech price or more *cough*

Why does everything have to be static/predictable_  No RNG means less variation, imo.

As I said, I will be fine with the whole thing if reverse engineering is not too expensive.  I see what you mean by variation but then again...

This could happen.  Warframe is a cool game, but rng can suck sometimes (and it has a lot of it). :/

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, August 20 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Zdragow]

[Sylhiri]

Just make sure that it doesn't end up like the old closed beta customization, those had negative and positive stats as well but it still had optimal builds. Strangely I remember a stat being very much favored as a negative in a lot of internals and opt tree options, the devs will need to focus on balance to get this to work well. By balance I don't mean Steam Patch balance, it'll need to be at least twice the effort :0

"Oh I had a good idea for a new..." *slap*
"FOCUS!"

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on August 20 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

As I said, I will be fine with the whole thing if reverse engineering is not too expensive.

Hawken Cash Shop:

Scroll of Cash Grab [Item no longer breaks when Reverse Engineering]
Scroll of (Insert Lore Here) [Increases Reverse Engineering chance by 2%, Can Stack up to 50 times]
Hyper Super Crystal [Able to see what stats will increase before Reverse Engineering, 10% chance]
Blue Hyper Super Crystal [Able to revert an item to it's original stats, 10% chance]

All of these cost $20 :0

Edited by Sylhiri, August 20 2014 - 06:26 PM.

[Lucier]

At first glance it seems like it doesn't add vertical progression because of the negative stats that balance the positive stats, but certain stats are going to be better than others. Think of a player with default equipment vs a player with all orange equipment with +X% health. Even if you remove +X% health as a possible stat, people would just figure out the next best thing and all other stats would be considered useless. It further optimizes optimal builds and adds to the grind required to achieve them.

It's an interesting idea and I like it, but it would require a lot of fine balancing to get it right.

[nepacaka]

Fuzzy bunny hell yeah! I Want rework "magical" internals system since ascention.

Edited by nepacaka, August 20 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[comic_sans]

Eh, just seems like we'll have a new meta to hate and love but also we'll have to grind like crazy for things we already have.

[statcom]

randomly generated, artificial stat modifiers work in pve games because they flesh out character progression and give players unpredictable goals to work towards. they help keep pve experiences fresh and rewarding.

but in a pvp-focused game it just looks like a recipe for disaster. what happens when players start losing to people with full suites of legendary modifiers, or just notably superior stuff_ what happens when they look at the crafting system and realize they'll have to do an crazy amount of grinding to get similar gear_ sure it potentially gives them something to work towards - but it also introduces a noticeable element of artificial skill to pvp matches and increases the grind.

it's a cool idea on paper but i'm skeptical as to how well it would work and be received in practice. *shrugs*

[EliteShooter]

They said nothing big will change in the game, meaning only added content, or slightly changed stats.

[Silverfire]

Can't say I support it, but I also can't say that I hate it. Certainly don't like the rng though in a pvp fps.

[Xacius]

statcom, on August 20 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

randomly generated, artificial stat modifiers work in pve games because they flesh out character progression and give players unpredictable goals to work towards. they help keep pve experiences fresh and rewarding.

but in a pvp-focused game it just looks like a recipe for disaster. what happens when players start losing to people with full suites of legendary modifiers, or just notably superior stuff_ what happens when they look at the crafting system and realize they'll have to do an crazy amount of grinding to get similar gear_ sure it potentially gives them something to work towards - but it also introduces a noticeable element of artificial skill to pvp matches and increases the grind.

it's a cool idea on paper but i'm skeptical as to how well it would work and be received in practice. *shrugs*

That's why you have negative stats to balance out the system.  No benefit comes without a negative drawback.  Say you want to be really fast on the ground, for instance.  You'll have to sacrifice health and/or fuel capacity to gain that extra bit of speed.  These stats don't have to be high enough to make or break the game, and can even be as low as 2-3%.

[Spliff_Craven]

Not particularly fond of the idea but I'd be willing to try it for the sake of something new.
But I think it should be HAB tested prior to release to the public.

If the HAB group isn't impressed and a minimum of 80% approved of the new "equipment" wouldn't move forward.

I want OPEN BETA to end but I want a quality end product.

At this point in the game to drop dramatically in a new direction might be a great idea but it should be approved by the core gamers first. No one is more scrutinizing than us.

I think it's what we need.

Edited by Spliff_Craven, August 20 2014 - 10:33 PM.